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PATRIOT II Legislation Leaked

michael posted more than 11 years ago | from the goodbye-FOI dept.

United States 851

Buck Mulligan writes "The Center for Public Integrity reports that it has obtained a copy of PATRIOT II -- a huge law enforcement power grab that is intended to build on the USA PATRIOT Act. It's called the 'Domestic Security Enhancement Act.' CPI says it would increase domestic intelligence gathering and surveillance while reducing judicial review and public access to information. For more on the first PATRIOT Act, see the EPIC page."

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hello lamer (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259108)

I just got first post, now I'm famous. Who wants my autograph?? Propz to Wesley Willis for kicking batman's ass.

YOU FIAL TI (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259229)

He whooped batman's ass - he never EVER kicked it.

First 'I'm being censored by the government' post! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259109)

Fisrt ps0t (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259110)

Eat me you cockgobblers!

I suspect. . . (5, Funny)

Limburgher (523006) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259111)

that, soon, Alot of our Base are going to Belong To Them. :(

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259150)

Oh boy, that quote never stops being funny!

In A.D. 2101
War was beginning.
Captain: What happen ?
Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb
Operator: We get signal
Captain: What !
Operator: Main screen turn on
Captain: It's You !!
Cats: How are you gentlemen !!
Cats: All your base are belong to us
Cats: You are on the way to destruction
Captain: What you say !!
Cats: You have no chance to survive make your time
Cats: HA HA HA HA ....
Captain: Take off every 'zig'
Captain: You know what you doing
Captain: Move 'zig'
Captain: For great justice

This is not your brain on drugs. This is real. (4, Insightful)

fleener (140714) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259267)

That's what happens when you sit idly by watch the Nine Gavelers in Black give the Ring of Power to George Orwell Bush. He protects America by destroying it.

Funny that we would fight communism for 50 years only to see the eastern block fall and America gleefully embrace the oppressive Big Brother powers of a secret government.

At this point I have to wonder if some of the more ultra right-wingers like Ashcroft are arranging global annihilation so they can see their biblical end game fantasies come true.

I can only hope (1)

QuantumFTL (197300) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259113)

I can only hope that this gets toned down if it does pass... We don't need a police state!

Re:I can only hope (5, Funny)

brian ferullo (632354) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259182)

sure we do. how else can we be safe from the godless communist terrorist hippies? did you hear that the threat level was increased to ORANGE yesterday?! that's the color of garfield, for cripes' sake! does that not put terror in your heart?

Re:I can only hope (5, Insightful)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259284)

This will most certainly be toned down to garner acceptance and pass. People will then heave a sigh of relief that some of the more extreme measures were not implemented. This will of course overlook the fact that significant erosion of rights and freedoms have occurred. The more extreme current elements will then seem a lot milder next time round and slowly bit by bit we will find ourselves our liberties removed and we are living in a police state, controlled by a dictatorship and wondering how it happened.

Re:I can only hope (2, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259294)

We don't need a police state!
You don't have one already? Last time I was in the US, a policeman stopped me for crossing the road, and told me he could give me a $10 'ticket' for that (although he let me off with a warning in the end).

first w00t ! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259114)

I thought I saw a first w00t.
I did. I did.

I.AM (1, Funny)

l33t-gu3lph1t3 (567059) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259115)

Every time I read something like this, I make a little prayer thanking the powers-that-be that I'm Canadian, and that my government simply doesn't have the resources to do 1984-esque shit like this...

Hmmm (4, Insightful)

kypper (446750) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259147)

We passed similar legislation to the original anti-terrorism act shortly after the US government did.

In fact, most of the 'western' countries followed suit like lemmings walking off of a cliff... and the opposition in Canada thought we weren't doing enough! I'm convinced that if Stephen Harper was in power, we'd pretty much be Americans.

But don't thank your lucky stars that just because our government is inept that it isn't going towards 1984... get out there, create/join a new party (eg CAPP, Patriot, etc) and VOTE these bastards out.

Re:I.AM (4, Funny)

MKalus (72765) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259179)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Even you in Canada can have your very own PATRIOT ACT.

We the US Government are now offering our excellent outsourcing
service so that even YOU can spy on your citizens and immigrants,
because only a watched citizen is a good citizen.

You get:

- - Instant Background Checks.
- - Constant Surveilliance*
- - Access to our highly qualified law enforcment agencies 24/7
- - Detailed reports and statistics.
- - And much more

Order now, and we throw in some nifty Satellite Images of your own
Capital and other interresting places.

All this and more for just $1 / day / per person in your country
(doesn't matter if they are citizen, legal, illegal or just
visiting).

* 100% Internet surveilance available in late 2003

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.0

iQA/AwUBPkVBaFor0GSY5Ro/EQJiJACfV0Xq+3sSyjS9ywbk C4 iVur6Pz6YAoMZW
CbYblgj0Ep7qsiT4kqP3pny2
=UzVt
- ----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

yup (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259116)

mamem todos no meu vergalho.

Halelujah! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259119)

God save the queen.

first post? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259122)

This does not bode well. How much of our civil liberties are we willing to give up?!! Of course, this law doesn't affect the fat cats in congress... they voted themselves above the law.

>:(

Re:first post? (1)

lost_n_mad (521867) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259337)

Amen to that. Several people have asked me "What price would you put on Freedom?"
Well, I will not trade a single civil liberty for my freedom, because my liberties define my freedom in a country. I'm sick of hearing this drum being beaten in order to take away liberty after liberty.
I will not trade my Freedom for fear, ever.

Patriot? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259123)

"It is the duty of a patriot to protect his country from its government"
-Thomas Paine

Quotation (1)

lastberserker (465707) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259299)

Are you certain it was not Max Payne who first said this?

Its a shame that.... (2, Insightful)

Madsci (616781) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259303)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead."
Thomas Paine (1737 - 1809)

You know of whom I speak.

The Paranoid Brotherhood of Legal Staffers (-1, Troll)

SN74S181 (581549) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259127)

The Paranoid Brotherhood of Legal Staffers has uncovered a plot to take away all of our rights. Obviously it is a secret plot, and the way to prevent it from coming to fruition is to donate generously to our Political Organization.

A press release will follow.

ASK /.: Do Asian girls have squinty pussies? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259130)

I know how you dorks love porkin' Japanese chicks. They're the only girls in your math and science classes, so it's understandable. White women are brainless.

Hail Bush! (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259131)

The all american hitler!

Re:Hail Bush! (0, Troll)

testadicazzo (567430) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259273)

I agree with this sentiment, and DO NOT consider it flamebait.

While I would agree that the bush administration is the closest thing in the modern world to a nazi regime, Bush isn't a hitler. He's a goddman puppet. At least reagan could remember his lines. This guys embarassing.

Re:Hail Bush! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259336)

funny thing is, if gore would have one, it would be hail gore.

Re:Hail Bush! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259346)


But what is the USA going to do about him ?

i can tell you to save you even thinking
absolutely nothing

heil himler

So, what's life like in Canada? (3, Insightful)

mraymer (516227) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259133)

Umm... I'm just curious... No reason, really. I just want to know. I mean, just in case I'd ever make, you know, an extended visit. ;)

It's kind of sad that the government actually needs more power than what's provided by the first Patriot Act. It's also ironic that it was called the Patriot Act, because it doesn't make me feel very patriotic...

Vote Next Year Everyone (4, Insightful)

1stflight (48795) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259134)

For if we don't we deserve what we get, and anyone voting to keep the current Bush administration, must be insane.

Re:Vote Next Year Everyone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259180)

That rides on the assumption that it's not all a rigged sham. ;)

Re:Vote Next Year Everyone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259196)

Yes...Intifada (a.k.a. the cowardly murder of defenceless civilians in the name of Allah, P.B.U.H., BTW did you know Islam is a peaceful religion) may now be our only option. Rise up, fellow disenfranchised white upper-class move-faking hip-hop kid "freedom fighters"!

no difference (2, Insightful)

taxman_10m (41083) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259231)

Why do you think electing a Democrat would make any difference?

Re:no difference (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259290)

But there is a difference. You are the reason why we have Bush in office today. It is large amounts of the moderates and the slight lefters who don't see a difference so don't vote. I guarantee the right wing can see a difference between Bush and Gore...

Democrats and Republicans are very a like in many ways, but the ways that they differ are prohaps the most important. Mostly it is on matters of human freedoms, like this the Act that this story pertains to.

It IS important to vote.

Re:Vote Next Year Everyone (0)

ghack (454608) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259293)

Yes...vote...but not for republicans or democrats. Vote libertarian or green or for some other third party.

Palestinians are free! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259311)

They are free to stop suicide bombing Israeli interests.

They are free to stop teaching their children to be terrorists.

They are free to teach little boys that throwing stones at tanks is a bad idea.

They are free to embrace peace.

Until they exercise their freedom to do these things, all of their pains and problems are self inflicted!

Re:Vote Next Year Everyone (2, Interesting)

trentfoley (226635) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259313)

According to this little bit of paranoia [theregister.co.uk] over at The Register, it may not matter who you vote for. Especially if you live in Nebraska!

Man, I love a good conspiracy story. Tinfoil hats for all!

Re:Vote Next Year Everyone (2, Insightful)

quintessent (197518) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259315)

Next year will be too late. Call/write/harass [house.gov] your congresscritter NOW.

most people dont want privacy (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259136)

Privacy is not for the boring. Those of us with colorful lives want privacy. But if you're lame and boring you dont really need privacy, and dont care about those who value it.

Unfortunately the majority of people dont want privacy except _maybe_ in the bedroom.

hmm... (5, Insightful)

stinky wizzleteats (552063) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259137)

Apparently terrorists have tragically gone free due to the inability of investigators to pull up their credit records.

I also like the bit about how the use of encryption in the commission of a crime would be a felony. Recursion anyone? Sounds like a blank check search warrant on anyone using PGP to me.

Re:hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259218)

PGP? What about ssh??

Server dying quickly, here's the scoop (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259139)

Article is here [publicintegrity.org] , but server is crapping out. Here's the text:

Justice Dept. Drafts Sweeping Expansion of Anti-Terrorism Act Center Publishes Secret Draft of 'Patriot II' Legislation By Charles Lewis and Adam Mayle (WASHINGTON, Feb. 7, 2003) -- The Bush Administration is preparing a bold, comprehensive sequel to the USA Patriot Act passed in the wake of September 11, 2001, which will give the government broad, sweeping new powers to increase domestic intelligence-gathering, surveillance and law enforcement prerogatives, and simultaneously decrease judicial review and public access to information. The Center for Public Integrity has obtained a draft, dated January 9, 2003, of this previously undisclosed legislation and is making it available in full text (12 MB). The bill, drafted by the staff of Attorney General John Ashcroft and entitled the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003, has not been officially released by the Department of Justice, although rumors of its development have circulated around the Capitol for the last few months under the name of "the Patriot Act II" in legislative parlance.

"We haven't heard anything from the Justice Department on updating the Patriot Act," House Judiciary Committee spokesman Jeff Lungren told the Center. "They haven't shared their thoughts on that. Obviously, we'd be interested, but we haven't heard anything at this point."

Senior members of the Senate Judiciary Committee minority staff have inquired about Patriot II for months and have been told as recently as this week that there is no such legislation being planned. Mark Corallo, deputy director of Justice's Office of Public Affairs, told the Center his office was unaware of the draft. "I have heard people talking about revising the Patriot Act, we are looking to work on things the way we would do with any law," he said. "We may work to make modifications to protect Americans," he added. When told that the Center had a copy of the draft legislation, he said, "This is all news to me. I have never heard of this."

After the Center posted this story, Barbara Comstock, director of public affairs for the Justice Dept., released a statement saying that, "Department staff have not presented any final proposals to either the Attorney General or the White House. It would be premature to speculate on any future decisions, particularly ideas or proposals that are still being discussed at staff levels."

An Office of Legislative Affairs "control sheet" that was obtained by the PBS program "Now With Bill Moyers" seems to indicate that a copy of the bill was sent to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert and Vice President Richard Cheney on Jan. 10, 2003. "Attached for your review and comment is a draft legislative proposal entitled the 'Domestice Security Enhancement Act of 2003,'" the memo, sent from "OLP" or Office of Legal Policy, says.

Comstock later told the Center that the draft "is an early discussion draft and it has not been sent to either the Vice President or the Speaker of the House."

Dr. David Cole, Georgetown University Law professor and author of Terrorism and the Constitution, reviewed the draft legislation at the request of the Center, and said that the legislation "raises a lot of serious concerns. It's troubling that they have gotten this far along and they've been telling people there is nothing in the works." This proposed law, he added, "would radically expand law enforcement and intelligence gathering authorities, reduce or eliminate judicial oversight over surveillance, authorize secret arrests, create a DNA database based on unchecked executive 'suspicion,' create new death penalties, and even seek to take American citizenship away from persons who belong to or support disfavored political groups."

Some of the key provision of the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 include:

Section 201, "Prohibition of Disclosure of Terrorism Investigation Detainee Information": Safeguarding the dissemination of information related to national security has been a hallmark of Ashcroft's first two years in office, and the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 follows in the footsteps of his October 2001 directive to carefully consider such interest when granting Freedom of Information Act requests. While the October memo simply encouraged FOIA officers to take national security, "protecting sensitive business information and, not least, preserving personal privacy" into account while deciding on requests, the proposed legislation would enhance the department's ability to deny releasing material on suspected terrorists in government custody through FOIA.

Section 202, "Distribution of 'Worst Case Scenario' Information": This would introduce new FOIA restrictions with regard to the Environmental Protection Agency. As provided for in the Clean Air Act, the EPA requires private companies that use potentially dangerous chemicals must produce a "worst case scenario" report detailing the effect that the release of these controlled substances would have on the surrounding community. Section 202 of this Act would, however, restrict FOIA requests to these reports, which the bill's drafters refer to as "a roadmap for terrorists." By reducing public access to "read-only" methods for only those persons "who live and work in the geographical area likely to be affected by a worst-case scenario," this subtitle would obfuscate an established level of transparency between private industry and the public.

Section 301-306, "Terrorist Identification Database": These sections would authorize creation of a DNA database on "suspected terrorists," expansively defined to include association with suspected terrorist groups, and noncitizens suspected of certain crimes or of having supported any group designated as terrorist.

Section 312, "Appropriate Remedies with Respect to Law Enforcement Surveillance Activities": This section would terminate all state law enforcement consent decrees before Sept. 11, 2001, not related to racial profiling or other civil rights violations, that limit such agencies from gathering information about individuals and organizations. The authors of this statute claim that these consent orders, which were passed as a result of police spying abuses, could impede current terrorism investigations. It would also place substantial restrictions on future court injunctions.

Section 405, "Presumption for Pretrial Detention in Cases Involving Terrorism": While many people charged with drug offenses punishable by prison terms of 10 years or more are held before their trial without bail, this provision would create a comparable statute for those suspected of terrorist activity. The reasons for presumptively holding suspected terrorists before trial, the Justice Department summary memo states, are clear. "This presumption is warranted because of the unparalleled magnitude of the danger to the United States and its people posed by acts of terrorism, and because terrorism is typically engaged in by groups - many with international connections - that are often in a position to help their members flee or go into hiding."

Section 501, "Expatriation of Terrorists": This provision, the drafters say, would establish that an American citizen could be expatriated "if, with the intent to relinquish his nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United Stated has designated as a 'terrorist organization'." But whereas a citizen formerly had to state his intent to relinquish his citizenship, the new law affirms that his intent can be "inferred from conduct." Thus, engaging in the lawful activities of a group designated as a "terrorist organization" by the Attorney General could be presumptive grounds for expatriation.

The Domestic Security Enhancement Act is the latest development in an 18-month trend in which the Bush Administration has sought expanded powers and responsibilities for law enforcement bodies to help counter the threat of terrorism.

The USA Patriot Act, signed into law by President Bush on Oct. 26, 2001, gave law enforcement officials broader authority to conduct electronic surveillance and wiretaps, and gives the president the authority, when the nation is under attack, to confiscate any property within U.S. jurisdiction of anyone believed to be engaging in such attacks. The measure also tightened oversight of financial activities to prevent money laundering and diminish bank secrecy in an effort to disrupt terrorist finances.

It also changed provisions of Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which was passed in 1978 during the Cold War. FISA established a different standard of government oversight and judicial review for "foreign intelligence" surveillance than that applied to traditional domestic law enforcement surveillance.

The USA Patriot Act allowed the Federal Bureau of Investigation to share information gathered in terrorism investigations under the "foreign intelligence" standard with local law enforcement agencies, in essence nullifying the higher standard of oversight that applied to domestic investigations. The USA Patriot Act also amended FISA to permit surveillance under the less rigorous standard whenever "foreign intelligence" was a "significant purpose" rather than the "primary purpose" of an investigation.

The draft legislation goes further in that direction. "In the [USA Patriot Act] we have to break down the wall of foreign intelligence and law enforcement," Cole said. "Now they want to break down the wall between international terrorism and domestic terrorism."

In an Oct. 9, 2002, hearing of the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Technology, Terrorism, and Government Information, Deputy Assistant Attorney General Alice Fisher testified that Justice had been, "looking at potential proposals on following up on the PATRIOT Act for new tools and we have also been working with different agencies within the government and they are still studying that and hopefully we will continue to work with this committee in the future on new tools that we believe are necessary in the war on terrorism."

Asked by Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.) whether she could inform the committee of what specific areas Justice was looking at, Fisher replied, "At this point I can't, I'm sorry. They're studying a lot of different ideas and a lot of different tools that follow up on information sharing and other aspects."

Assistant Attorney General for Legal Policy Viet Dinh, who was the principal author of the first Patriot Act, told Legal Times last October that there was "an ongoing process to continue evaluating and re-evaluating authorities we have with respect to counterterrorism," but declined to say whether a new bill was forthcoming.

Former FBI Director William Sessions, who urged caution while Congress considered the USA Patriot Act, did not want to enter the fray concerning a possible successor bill.

"I hate to jump into it, because it's a very delicate thing," Sessions told the Center, without acknowledging whether he knew of any proposed additions or revisions to the additional Patriot bill.

When the first bill was nearing passage in the Congress in late 2001, however, Sessions told Internet site NewsMax.Com that the balance between civil liberties and sufficient intelligence gathering was a difficult one. "First of all, the Attorney General has to justify fully what he's asking for," Sessions, who served presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush as FBI Director from 1987 until 1993, said at the time. "We need to be sure that we provide an effective means to deal with criminality." At the same time, he said, "we need to be sure that we are mindful of the Constitution, mindful of privacy considerations, but also meet the technological needs we have" to gather intelligence.

Cole found it disturbing that there have been no consultations with Congress on the draft legislation. "It raises a lot of serious concerns and is troubling as a generic matter that they have gotten this far along and tell people that there is nothing in the works. What that suggests is that they're waiting for a propitious time to introduce it, which might well be when a war is begun. At that time there would be less opportunity for discussion and they'll have a much stronger hand in saying that they need these right away."

So... michael? (0, Flamebait)

AnimeFreak (223792) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259140)

How does this compare to your squatting of censorware.org [censorware.org] ?

Scares me... (5, Interesting)

DeltaBlaster (300386) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259158)

That thing just scares me...
- Secret Arrests
- Having your citezenship striped for even unknowningly supporting terrorism (in Ashcrofts mind, who knows what that could include)

And that list just goes on and on... Alls I can say is if that gets past as is ... "Oh Canada....."

Of course Ashcroft and I would assume Bush were probably waiting till there little war with Iraq started to introduce/pass this so the public wouldnt notice

Re:Scares me... (2, Interesting)

alfredo (18243) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259348)

"Having your citezenship striped for even unknowningly supporting terrorism (in Ashcrofts mind, who knows what that could include)"

That is not spelled out, but it could mean any political party that isn't Republican. This could mean the end of the concept of loyal opposition. The GOP never did grasp that concept. Bush spelled it out clearly when he said, "You are either with us, or against us." They do not even allow for independent thought within the party.

Too bad I never visited the States (5, Insightful)

Sri Lumpa (147664) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259159)


I think it's too bad that I never had the occasion to visit the States before because it's got a lot of great places to see but with the way things have been going politically I wouldn't feel secure.

Let's hope that they can come back from these dark times like they did from MacCarthism.

Oh yay... (4, Insightful)

CoolVibe (11466) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259166)

The "land of the free" is going to be less and less free. Damn I'm glad that I am a european citizen.

Now, If we could only get the British gov to stop proposing similar dumb laws (ie. EUCD) that make the EU look more like the USA.

If this one goes through, I've got yet another reason to avoid going to the USA and working/living there.

Re:Oh yay... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259215)

One word -- appalling. I might just move to Iraq; now there's a shining beacon of freedom and democracy (no, really, I read all about in Arab News).

Fascism (5, Funny)

SubtleNuance (184325) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259167)

Well, anyone who wants to weaken the security of the HomeLand(insert-your-best-trumpet-'dum-dum'-for-ef fect) would be against this Legislatoin. Everyone whos not a leftist, pinko, commie knows that the PATRIOT ACT is vitally necessary in the new Post 9/11 America.

I for one look forward to the security that the US PATRIOT ACT II will bring to the Homeland. Anyone who would be against this effort is an enemey of the state -- an Anti-American if you will -- and is obviously involved with the Terrorists Themselves -- please notify your local HomeLand Security Office of any suspiscious Anti-American Activity.

Thank-you,
Sincerely,
The Deacon of the Bipartisan Party.

Re:Fascism (1)

kypper (446750) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259177)

Oooh, that takes me back.
And we thought the 60's were all about free love...

Re:Fascism (1)

king_penguin_05 (582695) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259288)

I'm sorry, you must have taken a wrong turn. Soviet Russia is that way.

I can only hope that the parent post is a joke, but these days it's hard to tell.

Taken from My blog.. (5, Informative)

CashCarSTAR (548853) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259170)

Holy damn...

Got your tinfoil hats ready? Ok...here we go.

Patriot Act. v2.0

Section 101:Would extend the idea of a "foreign power" to include all persons. Regardless of if they are affiliated with terrorists or not. mmm...ok

102: v 1.0 limits "agents of a foreign power" to people to are activly violating or have the goals to violate federal law. v2.0 wants to eliminiate this.

This alone, combined with the known abuses of v1.0, would give any administratiion absolute and ultimate control. There is another 15 odd pages of further detail..but no more is needed.

I believe that somebody overreached. Between this and the doubling of the tax cut, things might be about to change...

-----

The problem with the two clauses listed above is that it opens ANYBODY up to a full investiation..which includes revoking citizenship and deportation.

Mmmm...facism...*drool*

Stick a fork in this country (1)

IWantMoreSpamPlease (571972) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259171)

it is done. It is too far gone to fix without going well outside the Constitution.....

Where else is there to move to? I'm done here.

That splashing sound you hear (5, Funny)

bogie (31020) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259175)

Is immigrants swimming BACK to where they came from.

Anyone know of any tech jobs in Cuba?

Re:That splashing sound you hear (1)

quintessent (197518) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259291)

Anyone know of any tech jobs in Cuba?

I hear they're looking for people with experience breaking into U.S. government computers, banks, etc. You might want to check it out:

http://www.fidelforever.com/antiamerican/jobs

Editorial Comment (1)

Pave Low (566880) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259181)

I would take this story more seriously if it wasn't written with such breathless and hysterical overtones.

Michael is a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist. Any story that supports his conclusion that the government is out to get him is autmomatically posted.

BTW: This is not offtopic, it is a meta comment. And don't be a pussy by overrating this just because you don't like it.

my submission (5, Informative)

joebeone (620917) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259187)

The Center for Public Integrity [publicintegrity.org] has intercepted [publicintegrity.org] a sequel to the Patriot Act [eff.org] that is being called the "Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003". Here are a few mirrors to the document... (we will need more): one [publicintegrity.org] , two [privacy.org] , and three [well.com] . A notable part of the prospective legislation is that a new federal felony [securityfocus.com] is created for willfully using encryption during the comission of a felony and that a judge in a different part of the country can issue a search warrant for another part of the country for terrorism or "computer crime". Why should you care if this isn't even close to law yet? 1) It's written by John Ashcroft and 2) The Bush administration is great at getting these things passed during emergencies (wasn't the homeland color just kicked up a notch [google.com] ?)

My theory.... (4, Funny)

Lord_Slepnir (585350) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259189)

....Is that John Ashcroft is just tring to get back at the citizens of Missouri for electing a dead guy instead of him. Too bad that the rest of us are going down with them.

Good Timing for threat alert (2, Funny)

egoff (636181) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259194)

Hate to by cynical, but...

Funny how the Homeland Security Advisory System [whitehouse.gov] went up a notch when it looks like CPI was calling around to the DoJ asking about this legislation...

Leaked? (1)

NeoMoose (626691) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259198)

How does something like this leak? If it is proposed it becomes public knowledge, does it not. So how did this somehow slip through the cracks? Is it simply in the works and supposedly not ready for public consumption?

Anyways, IF and I mean IF it is true that in order to know what is going on in the legislative body of the government these days that we have to rely on leaks then I ask what freedom do we have left in this so-called Democracy.

Conspiracy theory... (4, Insightful)

sterno (16320) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259201)

Okay, the odds that this legislation would get passed right now is really slim. I mean, without the pressing fear of imminent terrorism, there's no motivation for it. So, I'm wondering if the DOJ's intent in drafting this was to keep it on the shelf until the next terrorist attack happens. Then they would come out and explain that they couldn't stop it because they didn't have all the powers they need, and conveniently they'd have legislation ready to roll.

I'm very glad this has come out at a time when our heads are mostly screwed on straight so we can shoot it down in the light of day.

Re:Conspiracy theory... (2)

elmegil (12001) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259339)

Bingo. My thoughts exactly. Pragmatism would make this an obvious strategy; let's have this legislation ready to go so we can take the next step when the time is ripe.

Re:Conspiracy theory... (4, Insightful)

Edgy Loner (44682) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259342)

No conspiricy, just good politics.
A big part of getting what you want is knowing when to ask. Another big part is being prepared. These people aren't stupid. That's what makes them dangerous.

Re:Conspiracy theory... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259347)

"Okay, the odds that this legislation would get passed right now is really slim. I mean, without the pressing fear of imminent terrorism, there's no motivation for it."

--
And isn't it funny that we have a cleverly
color-coded "terror alert" system, reserved
for suchs attempts as passing such pieces of legislation; "What, we are at orange?! Quick,
where do I sign?!"

To quote another wiser than I, those who would surrender liberty for security deserve neither.

Troubled waters ahead... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259223)

America is rapidly degrading and the majority of its citizens either don't know, don't care, or are simply powerless to do anything about it.

History will look back at 911 as the beginning of the end of America as we knew it.

by god, it's about time (5, Funny)

bratgrrl (197603) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259225)

You whining liberal wussies make me sick. The only way to protect our freedoms is to allow Herr Asscroft unlimited powers to do whatever he wants. He is an honest, moral, ethical Christian man who loves, nay, reveres the US Constitution. He and pres shrub will not rest until all of our rights are suspended, in order to protect our liberties. God bless America.

Re:by god, it's about time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259266)

I guess your post was tongue in cheek, because far reaching federal control is a LIBERAL policy, not conservative.( FDR? LBJ? )

Im not a republican, im a conservative.

Re:by god, it's about time (1)

bratgrrl (197603) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259322)

Yes, it was tongue in cheek. I'd still love to hear your explanation of this current 'conservative' administration, which has moved faster and farther than any previous to seize and consolidate the power of the Federal govt., and especially the White House. Which has shit all over state's rights. (examples: opposing Oregon's Death With Dignity act, ramming offshore oil wells down Florida's throat, rafts of executive orders overturning local resource management rules in many states and rolling out the red carpet to polluters). Which has once again driven the economy of this country straight into the toilet and racked up massive deficits. Shades of the Reagan years.


'Conservatism' seems to mean owning guns, make wars, and ignore the other nine amendments. Is it conservative to want to control people's sex lives and religious values? Is it conservative to piss on the Bill of Rights? It would appear so, which is why I spit on the very notion of 'conservative'. A more correct term would be 'fascist'. If these are not conservative values, then it is not correct to call the current dictator I mean president, and his homies 'conservative'.

Re:by god, it's about time (1)

CoolVibe (11466) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259281)

ROFL.... Oh my god, that's funny. Thanks for making me spill my drink all over mt screen. Bleh.

In some ways, a return to the norm (5, Insightful)

kahei (466208) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259232)


Remember what Sen. Feingold said about a *return* to an era of invasion of privacy and harrassment.

In 20's and 30's america labor leaders and other troublemakers could expect to be spied on, harrassed, framed for this and that (John Steinbeck never went to a hotel alone for fear of
being framed for rape).

In the post-war era it wasn't so bad, but even then there was McCarthyism and spying was done on suspected communists that'd raise quite a few eyebrows now. It's really only since the civil rights era that Americans have come to expect the very high level of privacy and fairness that our generation has enjoyed.

Rather than sinking into a new and unexpected bad patch, it's more that along good patch may be ending.

Re:In some ways, a return to the norm (0)

taxman_10m (41083) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259287)

Basically people are upset that Bush is being too much like FDR, a president that is always considered the best we had by everyone.

Re:In some ways, a return to the norm (5, Insightful)

kahei (466208) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259334)

Ah, well, you see FDR had a war, like Churchill and Lincoln. If you want to be considered great you need a war. Problematically, Bush doesn't have a wa -- oh, wait...

Just what... (0, Troll)

brsmith4 (567390) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259236)

civil liberties have we given up? I can still do the same shit I was doing even before bush was in office or even before Patriot. The DMCA was put in BEFORE bush and even that hasn't affected my life. How has any of this affected you? Have any of YOU been wire tapped lately? Have any of YOU had your homes searched for no reason? Have any of YOU been hauled off to jail out of the blue? Have any of YOU had your book collection thrown out in the street and burned with everyone elses? Have any of you been shipped to a death camp in a car with 100 others, crying, screaming and wallowing in your own feces as well as the feces of others?I didn't think so. I think /. is over-dramatizing these Patriot laws that get passed. The day that ANY of these things happens to someone that is NOT an extremely shady character to begin with, is the day you can bitch. But as far as I can tell, none of these laws have impeded on a single civil liberty since their inception. If you can think of something I could do before Patriot that I cannot do now, please, please post.

Re:Just what... (5, Interesting)

WildBeast (189336) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259285)

It reminds me of some german Pastor who said something like

"First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me."

Open your eyes. Look around. Watch the news.
Jailing a 15 year old guy because his father is a member of Al-Qaeda is not what I would call fair.

Re:Just what... (3, Informative)

egoff (636181) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259297)

You've heard the old line "first Hitler went after the Jews, and I was not a Jew, so I did not protest"...

If you protest the war on Iraq, prepare to [wsws.org] arrested [converge.org.nz]

If you're a citizen of an Arabic or Islamic country, report to the INS [aclu.org]

The list goes on an on... Wake UP!

Re:Just what... (1)

JollyGoodChase (562568) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259300)

What you have to fear is the law of unintended consequences. The prime example of that is the RICO (Racketeering Influenced Corrupt Organizations) law. Intended to stop organized crime, it is now used against anti-abortion protesters. You might not think you're doing anything wrong, but it what the other guys thinks that matters and what seems/is legal today, might be interpreted very different in the future.

Re:Just what... (1)

DrewK (44568) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259309)

Dunno, you seem pretty shady to me. See you in the camps.

Re:Just what... (5, Interesting)

MKalus (72765) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259318)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> I can still do the same shit I was doing even before bush > was in
> office or even before Patriot.

I take it you're white? Your name doesn't sound in any way shape or
form like it is rooted somewhere in the far east?

>The DMCA was put in BEFORE bush and even that hasn't
> affected my
> life.

YET, the DMCA is something that the industry wants, they try to use
it (just read the newssites, or even look at slashdot), give it
another year or two and you WILL feel the effects (like when you buy
your new HDTV TV).

> Have any of YOU been hauled off to jail out of the blue?

I had the "pleasure" TWICE to sit around with Immigration for quite
some time, no I am not an american citizen and that was before 9/11
but I wouldn't be surprised if they would decide to question me again
the next time I fly into the US. Much more so now that Germany seems
to be falling into the "Axis of Evil".

> The day that ANY of these things happens to someone
> that is NOT an extremely shady character to begin with,
> is the day you can bitch.

Buddy of mine, Israeli, trying to visit the states from Canada,
because of his "accent' they pulled him out and had 12 hours of very
interresting discussions with the immigration officers. Yeah I would
say that is completly harmless.

A lot of the thigns the US is discussing has been done in other
countires (e.g. Germany with the national ID card).

The problem with things like the Patriot Act is that it WON'T prevent
anything, it will just give you an illusion of security.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 8.0

iQA/AwUBPkVGx1or0GSY5Ro/EQJiPwCfVxOljJ5zvqUmG+qw G2 9IMpoJo+YAoJDx
Jn/NI6v9zFuDMlSPAOpJaDGF
=+8x/
- ----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Re:Just what... (1, Redundant)

doy (610605) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259324)

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

Re:Just what... (5, Insightful)

Warin (200873) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259331)

You are totally missing the point.

Sure, you can do whatever you want now that you did pre-patriot. But once you start allowing your government to errode your freedoms, you are going to run into problems. What if Partiot Act V includes restrictions on computers that are on non trusted platforms. Suddenly you become a 'terrorist' if you dont want to play nice with Microsofts latest behemoth of an operating system. But because you didnt stand up for your rights and your freedoms back when they werent taking away anything that affected you directly, there is no one left to stand up and say 'Wait, this is wrong'

There is a famous saying that goes:

'In Germany, they first came for the communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics. I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak up.'

I am not trying to compare the USA to Nazi Germany, in spite of the current administrations seeming desire to take away some of the fundamental rights that are entrenched in your legal system. I am just saying that if one keeps their head in the sand, you'll never see the lion sneaking up to bite your backside.

Wow. (4, Insightful)

Rtech (647652) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259238)

My physical body is in America... but really, there are places I'd prefer to be where my heart is. Canada, where are you? Am I allowed to pass through the Iron Border? Or does America have to seize my computer at the border for illegal MP3s, PGP encryption, movie trailers and more?
I can't stand the way the USG is handling this. If Americans would stand up for their rights instead of being in a stupor over "terrorism", we could get our hard-earned rights back. One of my Canadian friends from online has called me an honorary Canadian and is offering me safe haven should the USG ever come after me lol.
Enough rambling... go talk to friends and more, print out pamphlets, write your Congresscritters, do something constructive towards repealing and destroying these evil policies.

Re:Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259304)

Canada, where are you? Am I allowed to pass through the Iron Border?

It's much more difficult to get into Canada than it is to get into the States, and I say that as a citizen of both countries.

Expatriation of Terrorists (5, Interesting)

fobbman (131816) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259240)

Section 501, "Expatriation of Terrorists": This provision, the drafters say, would establish that an American citizen could be expatriated "if, with the intent to relinquish his nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United Stated has designated as a 'terrorist organization'."

Would that include the US government for giving $43 million to the Taliban in May of 2001 for their "War on Drugs" efforts?

Call Gore. I think we just figured out how to evict the squatter.

Re:Expatriation of Terrorists (2, Funny)

fobbman (131816) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259256)

"Me: Too stupid to remember to close my tags."

There, I said it myself before someone else got it. Gotta remember that preview option.

News brief (3, Funny)

OO7david (159677) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259245)

Washington DC (Reuters) - Today, a inside leak occured of new legislation currently under vote in the US Congress. This bill seeks to strengthen and further refine the previous USA PATRIOT act.

The Domestic Security Enhancement Act of Two-thousand-and-three, commonly called D-SEAT, seeks to further build domestic strength for intelligence and surveilance, but many civil rights protestors claim it will lessen political freedoms and civil rights in the US.

D-SEAT is "merely a ruse to bring about more police controled state" according to activist Joel Mainem; however, the bill's author clarified that "D-SEAT is nothing new. All politicians are well familiar with D-SEAT. If there were any troubles, D-SEAT wouldn't be used."

What Thomas Jefferson said (4, Insightful)

sielwolf (246764) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259247)

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

Of course this was a popular quotation for Timothy McVeigh. The second part of the quote: "The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

Makes one think.

So is this the real thing? (2, Insightful)

Cerlyn (202990) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259249)

Keep in mind that the alleged document is draft legislation. It may be that everyone has put what they want in it, and it will be tempered down before it is handed to Congress.

It also might be yet another proposal where a group proposes something insane in order to gain more minor consessions. If so, hopefully Congress will recognize when someone keeps crying "wolf" that the wolf may not be there.

But what if the "wolf" does come along and someone says "if we had X, we could have caught them before this disaster." What should Congress do then?

***Your IP Address has been logged for reading this comment. Thank you for your cooperation.***

We are now living with the 21st century equivelent (1)

Techmaniac (447838) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259253)

of a Nazi regime. The US is now officially a fascist state. Democracy is dead.

Re:We are now living with the 21st century equivel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259278)

pssst. the US is NOT a democracy.

Find the word democracy in the Constitution or Bill of Rights.

Its a Republic.

Write Your Elected Officials (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259259)

This is a wakeup call for EVERYONE OF US IN THE UNITED STATES to write to our congressmen and women. Do so in a sincere, intelligent manner so we can make sure this gets shot down before we really feel the brunt of it.

fight for freedom (2, Interesting)

koi88 (640490) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259261)

I don't know where this quote is from:

"Some people fight so hard for freedom until there is nothing left of it."

Though I strongly suspect the whole terrorism-panic and sudden need to attack states declared "evil" has other causes... Maybe the weapon industry needs new markets or the oil industry wants more countries to exploit... (and these are George W.'s friends so he is a nice guy and helps them)

what scared me the most (2, Interesting)

Profe55or Booty (540761) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259263)

Section 501, "Expatriation of Terrorists": This provision, the drafters say, would establish that an American citizen could be expatriated "if, with the intent to relinquish his nationality, he becomes a member of, or provides material support to, a group that the United Stated has designated as a 'terrorist organization'." But whereas a citizen formerly had to state his intent to relinquish his citizenship, the new law affirms that his intent can be "inferred from conduct." Thus, engaging in the lawful activities of a group designated as a "terrorist organization" by the Attorney General could be presumptive grounds for expatriation.

so... they can take citizenship from anyone in an organization that they deem a terrorist group.

example:

i join a group that does guerilla-type media distribution, like maybe stuffing newspapers in those quarter machine things with pamphlets which include dying afghan children. then one day a police officer catches one of us, gets the group name out of them and the group members.

the government could then deem us terrorists as we scared many-a-christian-family with those pictures.

our citizenship could be revoked and we could be thrown out of the country.

god bless amerika

Re:what scared me the most (1)

fobbman (131816) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259319)

Let's hope that somewhere out there a terrorist is about to be arrested, and when the agents break down his door he is reading a Katz column.

Laugh. This Patriot Act II followup can make it that bad, if the government wants to use it that way.

Well, at least it's out in the open now.. (5, Insightful)

Druegan (646568) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259276)

America has been a "police state" for the last several decades... Everything our society does is regulated, the Feds have power that would be abhorrent to the framers of the constitution... They've been doing it for years covertly, in small ways... the real truth of the matter is that the US public doesn't know, and for the most part, doesn't WANT to know, just what the government routinely gets away with. As long as they can shop at the Gap, drive their SUV's, chat on their cellphones, Check their email at AOL, and watch the latest network tv drivel, they're happy.

Now at least the govt is being OPEN about its facist tendencies.. which makes it easier to resist, if anyone is left who has the heart. Ben Franklin said it best, I think... something to the effect of "Anyone who would trade freedom for security deserves neither."... And history will show, gets neither as well.

Oh, how Babylon the mighty has fallen.

Too little, too late (5, Insightful)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259301)

Folks, here in USA, W. has had the government start tapping the phone network at OC-48 and OC-192 level. Our e-mails, our conversations, our pixs have been being watched for some time now. It is all being done with machines. That is no big deal. The real problem is 2 part:
  1. We willing gave up many of our rights to W. in this last year for a security that we can not have.
  2. We are allowing W. to remove the oversight committee's that prevent abuses that the likes of Nixon (watergate - I am not a crook) and Raygun (sandanista - I do not remember) did.

In the future, things will get worse becuase we allowed future abuses. This government was set up to prevent it, and now in the name of security, we are giving up the important checks and balances. These last 20 years have done more damage to these than at any other time in history (the WW2 damage was temporary, these are permanant). BTW, folks, clinton has been part of these stripping of rights as well.

Patriot II blah blah blah...who gives a shit? (-1, Troll)

Bukakke Troll (648638) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259305)

Now where's my sweet bukakke?

Who is this "center for public integrity" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259332)

Sounds awfully suspicuous to me, better round them up and send them to camp X-ray for our protection. Better yet launch a preemtive strike against their
headquarters to be safe. ;)

Benjamin Franklin (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5259341)

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), Letter to Josiah Quincy, Sept. 11, 1773.

Because obviously. . . (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 11 years ago | (#5259345)

if you've passed an act that removes more civil liberties than any other single act in the nation's history the thing you really need to do is follow it up by tightening the noose.

Thank God I'll be safe (cough) from terrorists though.

Now If I could only do something about those Black Marias. I know they'll be coming for me soon because I've downloaded anti-government texts over the internet.

They're called The Federalist Papers and Civil Disobedience.

KFG
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