Texas Rep Wants To Jail File Traders 739
kUnGf00m45t3r writes "There is an article on Wired about how Texas Rep. John Carter wants to jail some college students to scare people away from illegal file sharing. He says, "What these kids don't realize is that every time they pull up music and movies and make a copy, they are committing a felony under the United States code," Carter said in an interview. "If you were to prosecute someone and give them three years, I think this would act as a deterrent." Right..."
What these kids don't realize (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What these kids don't realize (Score:3, Funny)
Who wants to bet he has KaZaA at home right now while he's at work downloading the new Kenny G album? Hah.
Great Idea! (Score:3, Insightful)
If he succeeds, pretty soon there won't be any file trading, just like now there are no more illegal drugs in this country!
Re:What these kids don't realize (Score:3, Funny)
</SARCASM> (for all you mods out there)
Hmmm... (Score:5, Funny)
Using RIAA screwy logic, does this mean that I haven't actually cost them anything?
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2)
Tom.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2)
The key point is, why the hell would I pay for new music since it is all a bunch of crap? I'd rather
stick to my beloved old zeppelin, purple, iron maiden, hendrix, joplin, who, etc, etc, etc ripped
albuns than to pay RIAA for this new shit.
And, of course, if I happen to like some song I hear, there is always the new underground italian napster
to get it. I also will never buy a fscking CD again. If I want to support some artist, i'll attend to a
concert or something, but it's rare in this place
Re:Hmmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
As it is, I do buy a few CDs, but only if I consider the package as a whole is worth owning. If record companies want people to buy CDs they should try making the product 'value-added' enough that its better than just having the MP3. Good artwork, lyric sheets, stylised packaging. Do anything to make it worth the money, but don't expect people to pay for a CD when its as easy as ripping it, or P2Ping it.
Thats my opinion anyway.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2, Insightful)
Sheesh.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2, Interesting)
Why is it a crime in the first place when the record company has made money from it? Who has been injured?
If I was put in jail instead, they wouldn't have had that one single sale. Therefore, the punishment is punishing the victim as well.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2)
Tom.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm... (Score:2)
If you abide by a law 100 times does it make it right to break it 99 times?
Yes, it really is that black and white. I'm not talking about whether or not the law is just, but whether prior compliance with a law makes it alright to disregard the law later.
Tom.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Jails are for extremely violent or disorderly people who have the potential to ruin others' lives and do not care what happens to others. Most college students (except for some of the frat boys around here) do not fit into this category (not even close!). Jails are for dangerous crimes; violent crimes are dangerous, drugs are considered dangerous (perhaps if you are a pusher, but what about the rest of the people in jail for drug dealings and possession?), and cheating the (economic) system in grandiose ways is sometimes considered dangerous.
How is file sharing, something that has been going on for years and years *anyway* (ever copied a tape or CD? recorded something off the radio kept it? recorded something off TV and kept it?), suddenly such a grandiose crime that it is ruining others' lives in such a serious way?
Jails are designed to hurt and punish people who haven't learned not to hurt and punish others. By not buying a CD, who am I hurting? If I like an artist enough, I will by their CD. If I don't consider it worth my money, I won't. In the past, I would just tape songs I liked off of the radio to make mix tapes. How is this different? Let's start turning in powerful people for making mix tapes with songs off the radio, shall we? I do believe that qualifies as an "illegal download." Then maybe people will realize how ridiculous this whole business is (in most cases, anyhow).
Piracy? Theft? Hahahahahahaha. I guess "copyright infringment" isn't scary enough of a word. If I go to jail for piracy, I better have looted and pillaged. If I go to jail for theft, I better have acquired lots of new physical possessions from a store, defeating store security.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:3, Insightful)
Using that logic, you might as well say that taking a photo of someone is stealing.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Funny)
A rumored Amish belief that I have heard (never validated, though) is that part of their soul is stolen when a photo is taken of them.
I wonder if that also means that part of the soul of a song is stolen every time it's copied. That would kind of explain why so much contemporary music is soulless, bland, commercial mulch.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's absurd.
It's also absurd that someone is willing to ruin some bright and basically good kid's life (a felony on your record severely limits your options) just to make an example and a point.
Here's a legal proposal for you: it should be unlawful to use criminal law to make examples of anyone. If you prosecute one offender, you should have to prosecute them all. (College campuses everywhere are suddenly vacant; millions of voices are suddenly silenced.)
When will they understand? (Score:2, Interesting)
Drugs. (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, right.... (Score:2, Insightful)
The world is going to hell in a handbasket.
Re:Yeah, right.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Tom.
Re: Re: Yeah, right.... (Score:3, Funny)
The International Court doesn't recognize the rights afforded to us all by God and protected by the US Constitution. According to the UN, any "right" that interferes with the UN's charter is invalid. What's entirely legal in one country (free speech, for instance) could be considered a criminal act by the UN, and a citizen may be tried by foreign nationals.
See the difference? In America, God gives us rights as human beings. In the UN, the UN "gives" you rights so long as it's not contrary to the UN's "
Re:Yeah, right.... (Score:3)
Tom.
(Fuck karma).
Re:Yeah, right.... (Score:3, Offtopic)
Re:Yeah, right.... (Score:2)
That's what we are all so pissed about.
Re:Yeah, right.... (Score:5, Interesting)
That means they are causing fear by ruining the lives of few.
Sounds like terroisim to me.
Re:Yeah, right.... (Score:3, Funny)
logic? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:logic? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:logic? (Score:5, Funny)
Then, and only then, will we be able to go to "Green [whitehouse.org]" alert.
Re:logic? (Score:3, Funny)
;-)
Re:logic? what about message? (Score:5, Insightful)
What message does jailing students send to American citizens? The one I can hear is "Innovative students who offend Corporations will be jailed. Even if the 'guilty act' does not merit such severe action ".
Deterrent... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Deterrent... (Score:4, Funny)
Tom.
Re:Deterrent... (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
He's got a point.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Deterrent (Score:2, Interesting)
Well, if it was on this (east) side of the atlantic I'd say it would never happen because no court would actually lock up a college kid for anything like that. Not so sure what texas is like though.
But they WOULD be prepared to lock up,
Interesting... (Score:5, Funny)
Inmate 2: "6 to 10. Downloaded 'Wake Me Up Before You Go Go.'"
Inmate 1: "Can you hand me that soap?"
3 years of training and a felony conviction? (Score:5, Insightful)
There just isn't enough violent crime in the US anymore. Let's all thank the Texan for finding a way to correct that problem.
Re:3 years of training and a felony conviction? (Score:2)
Tom.
Re:3 years of training and a felony conviction? (Score:2)
Re:3 years of training and a felony conviction? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:3 years of training and a felony conviction? (Score:3, Informative)
It may sound ridiculous, but those positions aren't as crazy as they seem. Texas has quite a number of differences from other states in regard to autonomy. Texas is the only state thate began as a sovreign country before it
Stupid (Score:3, Insightful)
His priority is corporate payrolls, not the people.
Revolition time, overthrow the gov. that the people Remember, the gov is SUPPOST to represent the PEOPLE, lately they just represent the CORPORATION.
Overthrow it.
Re:You are NOT a Communist. (Score:2)
An ineffective stance (Score:5, Insightful)
Filesharing is, in my opinion, much like speeding. A whole hell of a lot of people do it, and only a small percentage ever get caught or have to face the music, so to speak. When more than half of drivers are doing 70 in a 55, and only 1 in 5,000 are pulled over and given a ticket, there is no deterrent! Similarly, if you've got hundreds of thousands of students sharing files illegally, and you only punish "a few" of them, that's not going to discourage the rest of them.
The idea that "they won't bust me" is always going to be prevalent. Either we put them all in jail for committing these horrible felonies, or we don't bother busting any of them.
Re:An ineffective stance (Score:2)
As for your speeding example, if they gave a 3 year jail sentance for speeding, then you'd cut it down drastically I guarantee.
Re:An ineffective stance (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, it would definately deter hundreds of thousands of filesharers from his reelection... Let's face it, if the American people made enough stink about changing the copyright laws to allow casual filesharing, it would happen. There are enough people who do this and vote that it would make a significant difference. All we need is ONE candidate up for election who makes this his issue and the rest will scurry into place, either immediately agreeing, or seeing the light after they lose.
File traders (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:File traders (Score:3, Interesting)
Define the threat you are talking about. Thats the problem, no-one ever does.
If you regard excesive traffic that threatens the stability of the local network as a threat then I can tell you from first hand experience that the bandwidth consummed by spam is vastly less than that consummed by P2P technologies in most ISPs
Is something that affects and in some way or another harm or could harm us all
The one sure way of harming a network is floo
Let the punishment fit the crime (Score:5, Insightful)
"What these kids don't realize is that every time they pull up music and movies and make a copy, they are committing a felony under the United States code," Carter said in an interview. "If you were to prosecute someone and give them three years, I think this would act as a deterrent."
I know the american judicial and political system can be pretty screwed up at time, but just how much support does this guy think he's going to get from his constituents (read votes), when he starts sending kids to jail for three years in punishment for what amounts to fiften dollars worth of copyright violation?
To compare, how long do you expect Jeffrey Skilling (former Enron CEO) to spend in jail for the $30 billion lost there . . .
Re:Let the punishment fit the crime (Score:4, Insightful)
Can that be correct? It may be illegal, but is it really a felony? That seems a bit harsh, but then again, there are a lot of things that are felonies in Texas that aren't felonies elswhere.
Of course Unlawful Carrying of a Weapon (Handgun, whatever), is only a mesdemeanor.
Re:Let the punishment fit the crime (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, and this is one of the truly dangerous developments in the copyright cartel's assimilation of the United States government. Copyright violation was always, for more than two hundred years of American history, a CIVIL violation, not a CRIMINAL one. Redress for copyright violations was obtained through litigation in court, not the barrel of a government gun.
Unfortunately the copyright and media cartels of Hollywood bought legislation from our disgustingly corrupt public officials in Washington, and in the late 1990's turned copyright violation into a federal offense, i.e. a Felony.
A draconian police state and injustice we haven't seen since the American apartheid of the 1950's, a refusal to enforce an obscene law, or a repeal of those portions of the Sony Bono Copyright Extention Act and DMCA are really the only possible outcomes. Based on our experience with prohibition (creating two tremendous threats that have gutted our freedoms in the 20th century: the Mafia and the FBI) and its successor, the War on Drugs, I expect to see this law enforced widely, if haphazardly, with the result that our jail populations swell even more, and our country suffer social and economic fallout it will fail to recover from this obscenity for generations to come.
Welcome to the Corporate State. Bend over and take it like a man.
You missed a point (Score:3, Interesting)
Only for downloaders is it a criminal offence. Ripping off copyrighted songs and incorporating them into your own, IF YOU ARE A RECORD PRODUCER, is still a civil matter.
Nice? If the music is sent via MTV and recorded its fair use and perfectly legal. If its send via DSL and recorded its a felony with a long sentence. Even though the record companies give the product free (with promo
Whats good for the goose... (Score:5, Interesting)
later,
First Stone (Score:3, Insightful)
Ric Campaign for the national sig: "*Just kidding, Admiral Poindexter!"
Good, let's audit his home for MP3s (Score:5, Interesting)
Something about glass houses.
That's right! (Score:2)
This guy has the right idea. In order to stop law breaking, we must throw people in jail.
People often park in my street, which is a no-parking zone. What kind of society is it that lets people get away with so blatantly breaking the law? Throw some of them in jail for a few years, that would put the others off. And kids that drink under age. They need a good whipping. And don't get me started on people who "borrow" stationary from their employers...
ST: TNG (Score:2)
All we need is several million (Score:5, Insightful)
John Carter's Details (Score:5, Informative)
Not the law (Score:5, Informative)
1) Even where infringement is present, it isn't necessarily criminal:
It isn't criminal unless willful, and it isn't willful merely because it was copied. Evidence of infringement doesn't suffice under the Copyright Act.
2) Even where willful infringement is present, it isn't necessarily criminal:
If not for commercial purposes or by taking a retail value exceeding $1,000 in a six-month period.
3) Even where willful infringement is criminal, it isn't necessarily a felony:
If not for commercial purposes, it is merely a midemeanor, in the sense that the maximum criminal sentence is limited to not more than a year. (Not sure if that is the relevant standard -- I'm not a criminal lawyer).
Re:Not the law (Score:2)
Am I interpreting this right?
Re:MOD PARENT UP -- NAIL ON HEAD (Score:5, Informative)
It was. Until the "No Electronic Theft Act" [cybercrime.gov] appeared, which altered the definition of "commercial" to cover file trading as well. So, if you're running Kazaa, WinMX or whatever except with an empty or disabled share at all times, that's (2) and (3) from the parent post covered. As for (1), are you going to claim you accidentally installed that file trading software? If not, NETA would seem to put you into the "felony" bracket as soon as you've traded a couple of dozen albums - or one copy of Win XP, it seems!
Run a P2P app deliberately, trade $1k worth (at retail prices) of material, and it's a misdemeanour (1 year, $100k fine). 10 or more copies, retailing for $2.5k, and it's a felony (3 years, $250k fine). Ouch!
Wonderful plan (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wonderful plan (Score:2)
Re:Wonderful plan (Score:2)
Disney Jails for tots (Score:4, Funny)
Backwards (Score:3, Interesting)
3 years is not enough (Score:2)
The fact is that this multimillion dollar corporations have an almost 100% profit after the production cost and the artist's fee is covered. It's like software.
The only people that should be punished are those that make a profit out of it, not some college kids who have fun by listening to music. If they did not share MP3s, they would not boug
Jailing file traders (Score:5, Funny)
fine, but let's do something else first... (Score:5, Insightful)
In the grand scheme of things, cleaning out corrupt politicians is a whole lot more important than cracking down in file trading by people with no money. I'm sure jailing people like Carter for a few years would have a wonderfully deterrent effect on other politicians. What about it?
Deterrent (Score:2)
Anyone who is suggesting that the threat of being jailed for file-sharing would not be a significant deterrent is so blinded by chauvinism as to have no credibility.
There's always a bright side... (Score:2)
I don't think a single musician or filmmaker would feel comfortable if someone did hard-time downloading an MP3, especially if it were a college-aged ki
Who got this guy elected? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think that a justice system should be used to "scare" someone - especially when a great number of people don't think that much of a crime has been committed. Basically people have taped each others' CDs and records for years, and music still gets made, Puffy Daddy still buys his plane, the sky doesn't fall in. The problem is we don't see "these kids" as criminals - okay they are, but not the kind of criminals who need to be jailed. We do see a lot of musicians as criminals though, they make vast fortunes from music that is likely to inflame racial tensions and advocate criminal acts - this Texas Rep should choose his friends more wisely if he hopes to be re-elected.
It also seems pretty hypocritical to add a levy on blank CD media and STILL go after individuals who are buying them. It seems that the music industry wants to be paid twice - once for original CDs and once for blank media.
Hey, Ags and T-sips... (Score:3, Interesting)
Hell, anyone want to recall him? I'm sure there are a few TU students in Round Rock who'd be happy to help...
Waste of time ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Nice to see our perspective of domestic and international law are on par with each other in the insane asylum.
Didnt Texas just notice that their tried to give someone a needle in a case where the accused was found guilty with evidence from police paid witnesses and evidence was withheld? Yahoo Story [yahoo.com]
Like they need to find more ways of fucking people with their backwards justice. Perhaps they could figure out how to administer what they have first.
Deterrent? Absolutely! (Score:3, Funny)
My Rant (Score:4, Insightful)
Swapping a song is more akin to going to your library and copying an article out of an encyclopedia. I mean, the library paid for that encyclopedia, but Britannica certainly isn't getting any type of royalty or extra revenue for your actions. And, this behavior is actually accepted (otherwise, why did my college library have eight copy machines on each floor?).
The fact is, and this has been stated over and over again, that the recording industry is using a business model that is quickly becoming antiquated because it has not adapted to changes in digital media capabilities (i.e., instant gratification: easier and cheaper to download a single track from the Internet than to drive to the music store).
Furthermore, what is the motivation or desireable quality of owning a physical CD at the cost of $15? For the eight garbage tracks that you get in addition to the 1 or 2 good songs? For the really cool cover artwork? For the satisfaction that your $15 contributed to the squandering lifestyle of the artist, or even worse, the recording label?
Perhaps my views are seeded in jealousy. There, I said it. Because I have no marketable talent, I'm forced to work 40+ hours a week and live entirely on that paycheck. Recording stars might put in long hours at the studio (boo hoo--we all put in long hours to meet our deadlines probably more frequently than they record an album), but in my eyes, they aren't truly working unless they're touring. And, just because they can sing or otherwise attract public appeal, they have the opportunity to afford all kinds of luxuries PLUS have big companies give them all kinds of products for free in hopes of some sort of endorsement. I wonder what that would be like....
Call it theft or whatever, but I think that the everyday 40+ hour a week employee has voiced its opposition to the practices of the recording industry that takes money away from the working class to support the lifestyle of the artists.
Proof that he is taking bribes... (Score:3, Interesting)
Now exactly is this moron Rep from texas expecting this to work? the tactics they use against obviousally and morally sick crime called child porn doesn't do a damned thing. And now this blathering Idiot from texas wants to focus on something that is a percieved problem and waste resources on that instead of the real problems?
This man just gave his competition some really good ammunition for the next campain..
Rep. John Carter doesn't care about your children, in fact he wants them in Jail. Rep. John Carter cares more about big business than children, as he would rather waste resources on chasing college students and kids than stopping child porongraphy or other truely illegal activities.
Rep. John Carter, who is he working for?
Finally! (Score:3, Funny)
Even if they start randomly jailing 0.1% of all offenders you have to make room for tens of thousands of "criminals" in your already overcrowded jails, and the net result is that 99.9% of people will get away with it, scot-free.
I think they SHOULD enforce it, and make the record companies pay for the prosecution and the new jails that will be needed to house millions of young adults. Sure, schools will be pretty empty for a while and they might cause long-term economic damage, but at least kids will no longer be sharing files and can get back to smoking weed and drinking & driving!
Go Texas! Can't trade files but you can pistol-whip that black piece of shit who offered to wash the windows of your truck.
Obligatory Soviet Union reference (Score:3, Funny)
However, I don't think this goes far enough. I have a more Texan solution for the rep. to adopt.
Kill them all.
Yes, it's well known that most crimes are committed by young men aged 16-30. Kill the lot of them. It'll stop most of the hacking, most of the file sharing, get rid of most of the drug addicts. It will get rid of most of the cheap foreign labor so senior US programmers will have jobs again. It will reduce US carbon dioxide output significantly so Bush can take credit for reducing global warming. It will reduce underage pregnancies. It will remove most of the opposition to the religious Right. It will greatly reduce drunk driving.
OK, the downside is that CD sales will fall catastrophically. But in these difficult times, we must all make sacrifices. Even the RIAA. And we could have a stonking great memorial in DC, to all the young men who gave their lives in the war against (file-sharing) terror.
Next off: Why they should bring in the death penalty for double parking.
Stupid? Not as stupid as "let's give a few people a major criminal record for a minor offence to discourage the others." Texas and Saudi: the similarities run deep.
Apropriate Response? (Score:3, Interesting)
As a counter-proposal how about this:
Step 1:
For six months, send letters to violators stating that the executive branch will begin enforcing the law.
Step 2:
For six months, enforce the law lightly. Give a few kids a week a summons and (if found guilty of willful infringement) probation.
Step 3:
Gradually increase the punishment to the natural level for the law in question. Start adding public service and small fines, and gradually ramp up.
This is much the way that traffic law enforcement devices with cameras are phased in, and as a person living in a city with red-light enforcement traffic cameras, I have seen it work.
This is why file sharing should be legal (Score:3, Insightful)
In Texasese.... (Score:5, Funny)
letter sent to Texas Congressman Pete Sessions (Score:5, Interesting)
---------------------
Congressman Sessions:
As a voter in your district, I'm writing in response to an article (http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,58081,0 0.html) in which your fellow Texas Representative from the 34th District, John Carter, explictly expresses support for prosecuting as felons people who participate in illegal file sharing online. While I recognize that such action is in violation of copyright law, I also recognize that representative Carter's statements are a direct reflection of the common agenda of the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) and the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) and of the sizable campaign contributions that these organizations are using to influence legislation in thier direction.
Let me be clear that this letter is not in advocacy of illegal file sharing, but rather in response to the misguided stance of felony prosecution that your fellow representative has publicly taken. This is a problem that is endemic of the internet age, and is a result of there being an inadequate system of permanent distribution of these media from their respective industries (e.g. CDs & DVDs that scratch/crack/break, and audio and VHS tapes that degrade with time) and the availability of technological measures to ensure the indefinite lifespan of the media with digital archiving on computers.
Thus, it is apparent that, rather than fight the swell of illegal file sharing with threats of felony prosecution, thereby placing the onus of responsibility on the end user, the onus is instead squarely upon the RIAA and MPAA to discover a means to utilize the advancement of technology to discover a better means of distribution for their media.
This issue has arisen purely from the sphere of economics. Simply, why would I pay $18 for a CD/$30 for a DVD whose lifespan I cannot guarantee and whose replacement I will have sole financial responsibility for in the event of loss when an alternative, regardless of its legality, exists and is readily available (e.g. internet file sharing). However, if these industries were to offer their product in electronic format for a reduced cost (effected by saving themselves the cost of physical media and its physical distribution), or in some other way ensure that I have indefinite access to the media I purchased, then the argument for legitimate purchase would be much more compelling, and I'd be much less likely to engage in illegal file sharing in lieu of commercial obtainment.
These industries try to stand on both sides of the intellectual property argument, which hurls the legitimacy of their entire stance into a dubious light. On the one hand, by claiming violation of copyright law by unlicensed distribution of the content electronically, they clearly state that the value of the CD or DVD is in its artistic content and not in the physical media. On the other hand, by denying the availability of indefinite access to the content in case of a damaged CD or DVD, they state clearly that the user is purchasing not the content with their dollars but rather the physical medium itself.
Obviously, these ideas are contradictory, and quite obviously, the internet file sharing phenomenon of RIAA and MPAA content is a clear REACTION to the failure of these industries to act responsibly and consistently in their obligation to participate in fair commerce with the public sector.
And so, returning to the genesis of this letter, I ask, as a voter, that you take all measures to oppose any movement within the legislature that would seek to prosecute as criminals users who participate in illegal file sharing, and instead support legislature which would direct the RIAA and MPAA towards all efforts at finding an appropriate mechanism for media content distribution that would insure indefinite access for the consumers who purchase their products.
Thank you for your time. Regards,
--<name>
Local Hick Makes Big, Puts Foot in Mouth (Score:4, Informative)
Anyway, those in the Austin, Round Rock area, call him: 512-246-1600 and politely express your opinion.
What these "kids" *DO* realize... (Score:3, Insightful)
This is not going far enough! (Score:3, Funny)
I think it's a good idea. . . (Score:3, Interesting)
We can use this in a bunch of situations. For example:
We know that not all people who sit in Congress are stealing from their constituents and taking money in exchange for political influence, but we're very sure that many are.
So lets take, say, one Congressman and make a real example of him by putting him in jail. That should be a real wake-up call to the rest of them.
Any nominees?
--------
Re:Nice Idea! (Score:3, Funny)
The more you steal the less you are punished."
Yeah, but only if you're a CEO.
Re:Yeah, sure. (Score:2)
Re:Yeah, sure. (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't just in comparison with other "democracies", this is of anywhere, including dictatorships.
It now looks like it's trying hard to keep anyone else from approaching this record.
This is something for the "land of the free" to be ashamed of, not proud of.
Re:John Carter's Homepage (Score:2)
Re:Or... (Score:4, Insightful)
Then when you go to the big house, you'll be in and out in less than 2 years, and it won't make the headlines.
if they put someone in jail for this (Score:3, Informative)
In the mean time wouldn't it be nice if the "no felony" rule applied to more than the military. And is it true that some people get a choice of the army or jail in the USA?
(Doing the rounds on email - no idea if it is true o