Walmart to Push RFID 497
bravehamster writes "According to this article over at MSNBC, Walmart is going to push its suppliers to start using RFID to track inventory by 2005. The article goes on to mention how it was Walmart who helped jumpstart widespread adoption of barcodes. The report also points out some of the barriers in the way of RFID acceptance, but never once mentions consumer privacy concerns. Guess that kind of stuff just isn't important anymore."
the biggest concerns (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:the biggest concerns (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:the biggest concerns (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone makes a mistake and the RFID for my underwear somehow shows up in JCPenney's inventory computer, and I'm arrested for shoplifting when I go to JCPenney? (the RFID tags aren't turned off, they just mark that ID "sold" in their inventory so they don't arrest you when you take them out the door)
Someone makes a mistake and the ID for my underwear isn't updated in the master Wallmart database. I wear them to another Wallmart, where I'm arrested for shoplifting. (with those magnetic tags I can see them and remove them myself when I get home)
I'm suspected of a crime, and the cops get my shopping records from Wallmart then put out an APB to all retailers to be on the lookout for my underwear's RFID? (note: this could be a good thing, but it could be abused, too)
I'm not paranoid. I have no objection if they put RFIDs in the packaging, like they do now with the magnetic markers. I object to putting the RFIDs in the product, which is what the retailers want because they're afraid I'll just unwrap it before I try to walk out with it.
Perhaps that's the real problem here: they treat us all like shoplifters instead of customers and thus assume we have no rights. This is just another reason to not shop at Wallmart (as if I needed yet another).
the biggest concerns-Tag! Your it. (Score:3, Funny)
Is that anything like Intel Inside?
Re:the biggest concerns-Tag! Your it. (Score:2, Informative)
history: MIT--electronic locks requiring the swipe of a card
mit big brother inside [mit.edu]
Re:the biggest concerns (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't recall anyone with a cadilliac or other high end luxury car, or other passive anti theft car with the RFID tag in the key, concerned about privacy.
I don't recall any dolphins or sharks complaining about the RFID tag on their fins.
I'll complain when they try and tag my children at birth...
Re:the biggest concerns (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:the biggest concerns (Score:5, Interesting)
Now imagine that each one of these RFIDs has a unique number, and somewhere along the line you become attached to one of these tags, now all of your purchasing history is associated with YOU, and not an aggregate. And the wonderful thing is, YOU HAVE NO CHOICE. To most people this is no problem, to me, it is. I try my damndest to stay out of all forms of database, with mixed results, and with these tags, I CAN'T. My purchasing history will follow me.
Re:the biggest concerns (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:the biggest concerns (safeway angle) (Score:5, Funny)
Welcome to the future: DRM'ed clothing. Wear a non-matching shirt and pair of pants and you go to jail.
Fashion police! Come out with your khakis up!
Re:the biggest concerns (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:the biggest concerns (Score:3, Insightful)
The shops claime that there will be a net saving. Firstly, in theft - which costs shops something like 5% of turnover. Some of it walks out the door with customers, so could be stopped at the door. Some "dfalls off the abck of lorries", and could be traced back to the larcenous lorry driver (half of such thefts are bnelievced to be by staff). If it were to halve that, 5c per item would payoff massively. Secondly, in better stock cont
Maybe (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Maybe (Score:2)
at Conn's however . . . man, i just went in with a free gift card and bought a few packs of regular AA batteries and the cashier took about 5 min to ring it up. had to give a phone number . . . got some receipt that looked like a certificate licensing you to practice hairdressing . . . i just wanted the batteries.
First thing to buy at Wal-mart... (Score:2)
Surely some of the hardware types around here can come up with the simplest and/or cheapest possible way to pinpoint and extract these things.
(Then collect a couple buckets full and mail 'em back to Walmart corporate HQ.
2 questions... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:2 questions... (Score:2)
"Price check at register 4....5.....7....n"
Re:2 questions... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, instead of paranoid worries, I hope people start focusing on the promise of RFIDs: instant checkouts, instant inventories, instant customer feedback to the retailer (meaning better product choices by the stores) and much better inventory management (meaning lower prices!). Never mind trackable warranties, potential theft prevention/insurance, etc, etc, etc...
Re:2 questions... (Score:4, Insightful)
Nevermind job cuts...
Of course, since you have your bread and butter, you don't see that as a big loss do you? I mean afterall, cashiers are unskilled workers anyway, right? The store is better off without them, no?
I know I was rather horrified to see when a grocery store down the street to me shut down and reopened just up the road. The new store had half the cashiers, but was twice as big. In the place of half of the cashiers were "self-checkout" counters, with one person watching all of them (about 10 in all).
With RFIDs, now they can get rid of ALL of them, and just pay one thug to wait by the door to beat up on someone who tries to walk out without paying.
Give it a break... (Score:5, Insightful)
Tim
this neo-luddite crap again? (Score:3, Interesting)
Do you know why you have a grocery store just up the road from you that's stocked with plenty of good food of different varieties at all times of year? Do you know why the average working adult in your town can afford an automobile? Do you know why you have a computer with which to post on
It's because we have an econ
Re:2 questions... (Score:5, Funny)
Mmmm. And suppose next week you go to a different store wearing the item you bought!
I hope they do leave them on. I'd hate to miss out on the hours of fun !
Re:2 questions... (Score:4, Interesting)
The bigger problem is that Walmart tries something like this:
Joe Blow buys a pair of shoes.
He pays for them with something other than cash that has his name and address.
Walmart now sells access to their records to other stores.
Stores with RFID readers embedded in the floor of the entrance can tell who you are when you walk in. Now they know who you are, your shopping habits, etc.
The above example could be a good thing if we could only trust companies to protect our privacy (which, IMO, we can't) by allowing companies to give us personalized shopping.
When Walmart does something everyone notices and reacts. Many have learned that you can't compete with them but you can make money by servicing areas that they have decided not to persue. I suspect that most companies will quitly embrace Wally Worlds actions concerning this.
Counterpoint? Count-counterpoint? Oh cr*p. (Score:3, Interesting)
At first I thought the solution would be to pay with cold, hard cash, but alas, RFID tags embedded in the paper currency are
Re:2 questions... (Score:3, Insightful)
This would not solve the very real "camping" problem he mentioned.
Re:2 questions... (Score:3, Informative)
Serial numbers don't have to be related to the product you know. Under the presumption they'll be using a BigAssDatabase to track these things (which, frankly, you'd have to assume if you're worried about privacy) a random number, or a SHA-1 hash is just as good.
SELECT price,productname FROM bigAssCodeTabl
Re:2 questions... (Score:5, Informative)
Passive RFID tags require a powered reader unit (such as a handheld unit similar to the ones used for barcodes or a stationary unit) which query the RFID for the information. Since these RFID tags have no power source of their own, even with a powered reader unit the maximum reading distance is ***A FEW FEET***. The amount of data that is able to currently be stored on passive RFID tags is quite small as well. Passive RFID tags are fairly cheap, however unless breakthroughs have been made in the last 6-8 months, they still are not cost effective to stick on anything and everything.
Powered RFID tags are battery powered and are capable of storing substantially more information than passive RFID tags. Signal distance is also further than passive RFID tags however still, unless you had a reader unit in your house or some sort of truck mounted reader unit went through the neighborhood any RFID tags in your house would be unreadable, the distance even powered RFID tags is pretty short. Tags such as these cost a few dollars each, definately not cost effective to stick on just anything.
As stated in the article, and from my experience visiting a Walmart regional distribution center, is that RFID tags will be used for logistics/distribution operations. Even if they were going to start sticking RFID tags on everything tomorrow(which would be prohibitedly expensive) their distance limitations would make them useless once you got out into the parking lot, and that erring on the generous side on the distances they can transmit. So unless you have a RFID reader in your house, no worries.
For the above questions, 1) For a consumer to detect a tag is pretty obvious, they are not that small, plus, all RFID technologies I am aware of require an antennae which would be a give away even if the tag was somehow incorporated inside the product with a small antannae sticking out. Researchers at Motorola have been investigating doing away with the need for an antennae however, maybe they have overcome this issue. 2) No ideas
Re:2 questions... (Score:3, Informative)
Tagsys, however, also has a 'Laundry Tag' that:
HAH (Score:2, Funny)
Now they'll need radio tags to do the job right.
Supply line efficiency vs. privacy (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't think this will be done, however. What is more likely is some sort of software "de-activation" that will make consumers happy but will not necess
Re:Supply line efficiency vs. privacy (Score:2)
Good thought, though. Since an RFID is powered by the detector, maybe it can be overpowered, or burned out, in a similar process.
Recent conversation (Score:5, Insightful)
Truth be told, I fail to see the privacy issues the adoption of these things would raise. I assume that, once you've brought your item home, you're free to remove the offending tag. Or, if you want to mess with the system, switch 'em around [re-code.com].
Re:Recent conversation (Score:2)
Yes, and in about twenty years, unless the public is continually informed about the possible abuses of RFID, everyone will forget.
Or tags will be made too small to remove.
Or hundreds could be put on products to prevent removal.
Or people could "accidentally" ingest them.
You're just not imaginative enough, son...
Re:Recent conversation (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe I'm not paranoid enough. High tech crooks cruising a neighbourhood with souped up RFID sensors, scoping out homes to rob. Now there's a thought. The ultimate target is a home that reads plenty of consumer electronics and jewelry tags, but no toothbrushes or combs. Guess they're on vacation. In fact, I like the idea so much that I'd like to be the first to coin the phrase waRFIDing to describe it.
Already ready for this,,, (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, I'm back to cash and the Chamblee Farmers Market.
Don't try trackn' me! Bastards!
Innovation or domination? (Score:2, Insightful)
OK Don't Get Paranoid, Yet (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:OK Don't Get Paranoid, Yet (Score:5, Informative)
RFID tags need no power supply. They are powered by the reader. (From the radio waves emitted by it.)
From this [rfidusa.com] page:
An RFID system consists of an antenna or coil, a transceiver and a transponder or tag. A radio signal emitted by the antenna activates the tag allowing it to be read and in some instances have data written to it.
SWEET! -if I can get a reader for cheap (Score:2, Funny)
Very exciting stuff boys and girls!
Tonight when I had to decide what to make for dinner I had to walk into the kitchen and look around for what I had. THEN I realized I had no milk for my macaroni and cheese.
Once these RFID's meet with grocery stores i can see whats avalable from my pda! webtablet! tv! iloo! ipod!
New way to advertise (Score:4, Interesting)
Mark this post. With RFID tags, this will happen. Just not right away, admittedly.
Re:New way to advertise (Score:5, Insightful)
An important thing to realise about targeted ads is that the number of ads won't change - you won't be suddenly blitzed with many more ads. The difference is that the ads you'll see will more frequently be relevant to you.
Less dross. More stuff you're interested in. Sounds good?
If anything, the total number of ads will tend to decrease as advertisers won't need to plaster every damned product to make sure they're all seen by the target market. Further, I would expect that each targeting site would be much more expensive than a static site (but probably cheaper than all the static sites they'd need to cover all the product lines).
Both of these will tend to make the RoI calculation come out in favour of few advertising sites, each with many potential ads they can show.
The thing to realize is... (Score:4, Insightful)
... this is going to be a huge boost for RFID's. I don't think most realize the huge amount of sway that Wal-Mart has in both the American economy and the World economy in general. They are a huge company: the first retailer to ever become the biggest company in the world. They should change the old saying to "As goes Wal-Mart, so goes the world..."
gun control (Score:5, Insightful)
Not saying its a good idea, but I just wonder if its floating out there
Re:gun control (Score:2)
Re:gun control (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem with this is that guns are not difficult to manufacture. Heck, many popular models still in use to day are simple variations on guns built before electricity. Not to mention the fact that their are literally millions of weapons currently in existence.
The firearms cat has been out of the bag for several hundred years. Pretending that you can keep firearms out of the hands of criminals (especially criminals that want to get past a security checkpoint) is ridiculous. Worst comes to worse the criminals could simply make their own weapons.
Re:gun control (Score:4, Insightful)
If guns were banned here (U.S.), there really would be an undergound gun making establishment, and the guns would be pretty good. (We are Americans after all). The 'No RFID' feature would make them all the more desirable.
Re:gun control (Score:3, Informative)
Nothing. It's a very dumb idea. Since an RFID tag would be nothing more than a machine-readable number anyway, WTF is wrong with a serial number, like they already have? Unlike a supermarket, you don't normally need to scan dozens of gun serial numbers per hour...
Over here in the civilized world, you need a licence to own and operate a gun. Seems to work quite well. Yes, the government has a database of all gu
Privacy? (Score:2)
RFID abuse is almost certain (Score:3, Interesting)
RFID tags in merchandise are only half of the equation-- the marketers need a way to attach that data to a specific person-- like if some state gets the bright idea to embed an RFID tag in its driver's licenses. Or if a credit card company puts one in your VISA or MasterCard. Then...
Bingo. Joe Blow walks through a doorway, and and any still-active RFID tags on his person are collected by the RFID tag reader built unobtrusively into the door frame. Some computer in the back room duly records that Joe Blow has a NJ driver's license, wears Lee Jeans, Hanes boxers, Reebok sneakers, and chews Big Red.
Re:RFID abuse is almost certain (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe not.
The problem with the Benetton plan was that the RFIDs were suppose to be embedded in the clothing itself. No one has ever said Walmart is asking for this.
Certainly, for non-clothing products, I doubt the RFID will be embedded in the product itself. That would be far too costly a change for the manufacturing process. Rather, it will probably be embedded in the packaging itself (like UPCs).
Even for clothes, I imagine (in Walmart's case) the RFID will be in the clothing tags or packages. I can't imagine Walmart convincing Fruit of the Loom to embed RFIDs in every pair of briefs.
I think the article does not mention privacy concerns because, frankly, unless the RFID is somehow permanently associated with the product, there are no privacy concerns.
Walmart often bullies suppliers, this is no diff. (Score:2, Interesting)
Simple solution... (Score:5, Funny)
I don't see what the big deal is?
Re:Simple solution... (Score:3, Funny)
They can do it (Score:5, Informative)
Re:They can do it (Score:2)
For a while they told workers that they'd "really appreciate" it and that it'd "up the stock price" if they would stay after their shift and work for free for an hour or two.
big no-no
High Tech Burglary (Score:2)
But then on second thought, a burglar could drive through a neighborhood querying for expensive items, such as a HDTV, and use that information to decide which houses to rob.
Maybe there are distance limitations, but just get a good transceiver and filter the noise. High tech burglars are coming.
Re:High Tech Burglary (Score:2)
It doesn't work like you think.
Walmart = sleaze (Score:5, Insightful)
A friend and I were walking through walmart to get some engine coolant(minor emergency, no choice), and I expressed my distaste for walmart. She asked, "Why? Where else could you get all these wonderful things?"(points to grocery section, hardware, etc.)
My answer was rather simple. "Well, before Walmart, the center of my town- the local town hardware store, the local grocery store, and so on. But thanks to Home Depot and Walmart running all the local businesses out, now you can't get anything without driving 20+ minutes". So now, for the $2 in savings, I've got to burn $2 in gas just to get there. I've got to spend 5 minutes finding a parking space, 5 walking from the lot into the store, another 5 trying to find the section and get there, another 5-10 waiting in line...so on etc. That's 'better'?
All because the only thing consumers value these days is the pricetag- not all the other benefits that come from giving your business to a small, locally owned business...or the hidden costs(your time, travel expenses, etc). Lost your reciept? Walmart tells you to go fuck yourself,m you shoplifting scum! Joe at Joe's Hardware remembers selling you that door hinge a few days ago- so the answer is "hey, no problem, here's your money." Not to mention, Joe knows what he's talking about when you ask him a question about doors, instead of some PFY who blankly stares at you because you asked something other than "what aisle is ___ in?"
You know what? It's not the only thing that bugs me about Walmart- their people are downright sleazy. It's stuff like the stories about Walmart managers taking donated items out of charity dropboxes in the stores that were not in walmart bags, and restocking them onto the shelves. Why? Walmart claimed it was to prevent shoplifting(or, in this case, 'shopdonating'), and items not in Walmart bags must not have been legitimate purchases. The donation box was AFTER the registers, not before. Further- ever been in a Walmart? There's more security cameras than you can count- yet a)items were supposedly shoplifted, yet not caught on tape and b)supposedly walmart didn't have any security cameras covering the area where the donation box was. Uh huh. Oh, and don't get me started on Walmart's union-busting...
It's so frustrating to see these giant box stores pop up. A big part of the local economy shifts over to that one store- all the mom+pops die off, and everyone that worked for mom+pop end up working for Walmart, they get nice clean blue uniforms, and all is(mostly) good. What happens when Walmart goes the way of K-mart, Caldoors, Bradlees, etc...or decides that store isn't quite profitable enough? Oops. Smallville's unemployment just went to %50.
Re:Walmart = sleaze (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Walmart = sleaze (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Walmart = sleaze (Score:4, Interesting)
So don't be offended by the search- or shop elsewhere! People who are outraged by privacy/security issues are ok, but when people feel entitled to privacy AND deep discounts, that seems too much to me.
Re:Walmart = sleaze (Score:5, Informative)
Advice for next time: You do not have to consent to a search of your bag in their parking lot, and you definitely do not have to go back in the store to have your picture taken (why, why, why would you agree to do that???). If you feel uncomfortable with how you're being treated by a store security guard, ask them whether they intend to physically keep you there. If they do not, turn around and leave without another word (this will be the case 99% of the time). If they are, clam up and demand the police. Once they have taken it upon themselves to detain you they face a pretty high standard of evidence (higher than the police would). They absolutely cannot forcibly search you under any circumstances - only the police can do that. If the store security people get touchy-feely, do not be shy about informing them you'll be pressing assault charges. It doesn't have to hurt to be an assault - it just has to make you uncomfortable.
If they "threaten" to call the cops, call their bluff. Keep walking. On the (highly unlikely) chance that they do, the police will find you walking down the road, and if they believe that you've stolen something, they'll do the same search that the security guard was going to do (except more professionally). You are not doing anything wrong by walking away from a store where you didn't steal anything, no matter how much some guard wants to hassle you.
Re:Walmart = sleaze (Score:4, Funny)
I was walking through a department store on my way out of the mall a little while ago and set off thier little alarm thing. It was something I had purchased in another store and was in my bag. My friend and I stood there inside the store doors with stupid looks on our faces for a minute untill one of the cashiers just told us to go. She had aparently decided that if we were stealing something we wouldn't just stand there after setting off the alarm. Resonable no?
Half way across the parking lot some idiot plain clothes security guard comes running after us screaming "stop right there you cocksuckers." Seriously. I look at the guy and say "excuse me?" I can't remember what he said exactly but it involved me handing over my bag and was laced with many unkind adjectives aplied to my person. I said "no", I probably would have let him if he asked nicely. He didn't like that much so he squared up his shoulders and tried the tough guy look on us. "You'll have to come with me" he says. This guy was about eighteen years old, covered in acne and weighed about 130 pounds if he was wearing heavy shoes that day. I tell you I hadn't lauged that hard in years, I was afraid I was going to piss my pants. We just walked away while he yelled "I'm calling the cops" over and over.
Re:Walmart = sleaze (Score:5, Insightful)
The anti-union crap Wal-Mart puts out is hilarious. Almost half of my training (two weeks) involved watching videos and taking computerized tests agreeing with Wal-Mart on how unions are bad and Wal-Mart is good and that I should never join a union because they'll never help me and Wal-Mart is such a dandy place to work that I'll never want to work anywhere else ever again, or join one of those sleazy unions!
Between that mindwash and the near-deification of Sam Walton (I'm not joking), the whole training session made me feel like I was joining a cult.
Back on the subject, the RFIDs and such better have a really simple implementation and there had better be some damned good training for removal, because NONE of the 40+ cashiers at the store I worked at knew how to fully deactivate the existing tags!!
I attended one of the cashier team meetings and, when asked, NO one had any idea how to do it right. The proper way is to KEEP SWIPING across the little demangetizer until the 'bing' sound stops. How hard is that? With the extreme emphasis on training the people there, you'd think that more people would know that, but they don't. I hope the RFID deactivation methods they employ are FAR simpler than this, because I honestly don't think that that lowest common denominator could handle it if not.
Re:Walmart = sleaze (Score:5, Insightful)
Do the IDs tell what the product is? (Score:3, Interesting)
- pregnancy tests
- sex toys, porn and lubricant
- medication for embarassing illnesses
- guns
Any other suggestions?Er (Score:2)
They may *HAVE* to diable tags after a purchase.. (Score:2)
For real - what's the big deal with these? (Score:2)
This isn't a flame or a troll, just an honest question: what's the BFD about these tags? They'd be a privacy concern to me if they had a long range, or couldn't be removed, turned off, or killed. But AFAIK none of that is true -- they have a very short range, they can easily be removed if you find them, they probably can be disabled remotely, and they can certainly be killed by EMP or something similar.
For everyone else in the supply chain the benfits are almost incredible: automatic inventory tracking
Cool use of RFIDs (Score:2, Interesting)
Detection from afar (Score:5, Interesting)
About drive-by scanning: I believe that you need an antenna that's the
square of the distance to read a tag. That's why there's a little plate reader
or handheld at the checkout and those walkthrus at the door are huge.
To read it from 5 feet, you need 25 sq feet of antenna.
The other thing is that the tag itself won't be zapped or deactivated.
Each will hold a key that IDs the product (all 10oz cans of peaches from
DelMonte will have that same key, like a barcode, probably that same UPC
number) and it will also have a key that's unique to the tag itself.
It won't be zapped, it will just change the status record of that item from
"stocked" to "sold" (or "missing from inventory but not sold").
Shoplift a sweater, and even if you get it out of the store, if you wear it
to the store a year later, you could get pinged.
As much as I hate the idea, you can't blame them for implementing it.
It opens up a huge world of possibilities and won't cost them that much.
With Wal-Mart's clout, it will be up to the vendor to eat the cost of the tag,
WM just has to implement the system and specs the tag. No doubt the tag
supplier will be a WM subsidiary.
Don't want to put in the tag in your product Mr. Vendor?
Sorry, we'll find someone else that will.
RFID is here to stay (Score:4, Insightful)
TI Tiris [ti.com]
Actual size is about 2cm and about 4mm in diameter.
Every single tag is a diff number? (Score:3, Insightful)
If so how big is the number that an RFID tag stores?
If it is unique per tag then no matter what it will run out bloody quickly, an astronomical number of products are sold every year. If the tag is not unique, ie it is the same as the barcode system and all products of the same type have the same ID then it is impossible to track people!!!
Also would it not be trivially easy to create a fake RFID generator so you could overload the senor equipment and make it useless??
What problem... (Score:4, Insightful)
At all.
So the store knows more about what you buy, can much more accurately track your purchasing habits, sees which things you like, and which you don't, knows how much you spend every month in the store etc.
What's the big-ass problem for crying out loud?
I *want* the stores to know my buying habits so that they can do a better jobs of providing me with more of the things I like!
Ask yourselves WHY the store wants to know this? It's so that they can tailor themselves to YOU, to give YOU a better service and more of the things you want to spend your money on. Why on Earth would Walmart put money into something that would frustrate, irritate or otherwise turn away customers?!?
I say bring it on! I say, yeah, let's see my tastes and purchasing history take their place in the big database so that I become a future dynamic of the store!
All these privacy advocates going nuts are well off the mark... get some common sense in your head... these people don't want to take away your life... they're not like the common fictional evil genius with a mad plot to eradicate privacy from the face of the world (muhahaha).
I genuinely see this as a *service*, cannot wait for it to be implemented and have absolutely NO worries about the scheme at all. Stop watching too much X-Files!
-Nex
Re:What problem...here it is (Score:4, Insightful)
While it may be FUD only, this technology being used to track ALL that you buy is the concern. RFID will eventually be "mainstreamed" and many people such as yourself won't see a problem with it being in money or in credit cards. Again, no FUD just fact, the FBI has already planned an investigation about RFID in money [eetimes.com] Why is this a privacy concern? What I'm about to say may be an ethical issue but it is seen different ways by different people. What if I want to buy some marijuana with that note? What if I want to pay the kid down the down the street to cut my lawn? What if that same kid does drugs? Now, I am suspect for being in "drug ring" if they can trace all those RFIDs.
Same with purchases from Walmart. What if I happen to purchase a combination of items unknowingly, that the average drug user purchases. Will I be profiled for that buying habit too?
I am with you, it's coming no matter what. It will be hard to stop. But, there are legitimate concerns.
I will hope that Walmart will adopt the Philips chip that you can turn off [zdnet.co.uk] if the customer so wills to.
You would be amazed at what your grocery store bonus card data holds about you! Returns, complaints to the store, not just sales data. Again, what if something with an RFID or something trackable has your fingerprints on it, are you suspect when the "bad guy" buys it from Goodwill or steals it? Not only do we need Walmart to understand that before they make this step that we want on off switches, but we would also like disassociation capability. IE, erasure of your association with an RFID. Also, yearly reports by email or mail on what your RFID info holds and what data they truly are keeping about you would be nice.
I for one welcome our RFID masters (Score:4, Interesting)
Imagine never losing anything again ever. That's a serious possibility of a world in which RFID tags are ubiqutous.
Yes there are potential privacy issues, but there are always privacy issues with any convenience technology. We get around them on a case by case basis as usual (e.g snail-mail: porno subscriptions arrive in brown paper wrapping).
How is the RFID worry any worse than TCP-IP, which passes through many unsecure places on the way to its destination? It's not, we've just already got a good handle on TCP-IP security, but noone's thought of similar ways to handle RFID.
They will, and the problems will be solved, as they always are. The sky isn't falling, it never does.
There are no legitimate "privacy concerns" (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:There are no legitimate "privacy concerns" (Score:3, Insightful)
1. I buy new tires for my car at Walmart. Each tire has an RFID tag for legitimate inventory tracking purposes.
2. McDonalds installs an RFID tag reader that checks for a RFID tag in the front left tire while driving through the drive through.
3a. When McDonalds sees that RFID tag again, they are able to display on their order board items which I am likely to buy, based on my vehicle's previous orders. (Nothing particularly wrong here)
3b. When McDonalds sees that RFID tag again, they subtly
Frequency Range? Consumers with RFID readers? (Score:4, Interesting)
Secondly if something I purchase is going to be sending an ID to readers that I don't specifically authorize, I'd like to get my own reader so I know with certainty that I've located and disabled the RFID on or in the product, since my own reader stops picking up a response/reply from the RFID.
Anyone know where consumers can purchase RFID readers?
So... What countermeasures...? (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a BIG problem with leaving the tags active and able to respond outside of said store environment. So, with that in mind (and maybe this should be turned into an 'Ask Slashdot' question):
What countermeasures are available to kill the tags, but not harm the item they're attached to, once you leave the store environment? Some ideas that come immediately to my mind are:
(1) Stuff your purchase into a microwave oven for a few seconds. That should effectively fry the tag. Unfortunately, this may not be practical for clothing containing metal buttons, zippers, or snaps.
(2) Build or buy a small EMP device designed expressly to destroy the tag's functionality. Could have varying degrees of difficulty, depending on one's skill with electronics, or the availability of such devices at the commercial level.
(3) Other ideas...?
Re:Note the limited description of RFID (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Note the limited description of RFID (Score:2)
For example, RFID could let a company add a boxful of goods to its inventory systems all at once, without having to unpack the carton and scan each piece separately.
They're talking about attaching the RFID tags to the products themselves.
Read more carefully.
Re:privacy in a store is not present (Score:2)
What's to stop other businesses from tracking their customers using the tags from other stores too. It's just an arbitrary number stored on the card.
Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
Re:privacy in a store is not present (Score:2)
Re:privacy in a store is not present (Score:2)
It would be useless for inventory tracking if all your 6 month old inventory just disappeared off your inventory system.
If you think Wal-Mart clothing doesn't last 6 months, then you have a different problem
Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
Re:privacy in a store is not present (Score:2, Informative)
Re:privacy in a store is not present (Score:2)
Re:privacy in a store is not present (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:privacy in a store is not present (Score:2)
Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
Re:privacy? (Score:2)
Sure they could. If there was an RFID detector in the door frame of the club, you'd get close enough for it to detect any RFID tag on you.
also, if you walk into a store, pick up a box, and walk around to shop some more, how does the store know who you are?
It doesn't, unless you have RFID tags on you that have already been correlated with you in a database.
i guess i'm a little confused... if rfid tags are a privacy
Re:privacy? (Score:2, Interesting)
1. Your credit card info is attached in their DB to all products you have purchased. SO when you enter a store (and you wear RFID tags) they can tell all your buyer history.
2. People from *outside* your house will be able to tell *EVERYTHING* that is inside. Magic of wireless... Technology freaks will drive around the neighborhoods with RFID readers to detect a 70" TV, or any other expensive stuff interesting to rob.
Re:Waaa waaaa "privacy concerns" (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, yes... If you don't count that fact that stores keep track of every item you ever purchase, then no, there was no loss of privacy at all.
I think the idea was that people could track what you purchased after you left the store, which is a bit more insidious.
Maybe you're just being sarcastic. If so, it's too subtle for me.
let's don our foil hats (Score:4, Insightful)
Uh, what? If you have a problem with them tracking every item you purchase then you need to stop paying for everything with credit or cheques. I buy stuff all the time even with (shudder!) a Kroger savings card and ya know what? Kroger don't know a damn thing about me. It's not like they take your driver's license number to fill out one of those stupid things; it's not like you can't lie.
It really amazes me how so many people tie themselves intimately to corporations and then bitch about the loss of privacy. If you value your privacy, tell'em to go to hell. Shop with the local merchants while they still exist; stop using plastic every time you buy a damn pack of gum and you won't have to worry about it - or open a numbered swiss account and get a debit card drawn on it.
I think the idea was that people could track what you purchased after you left the store, which is a bit more insidious.
Apparently the notion of removing the damn tag is completely alien to the tinfoil hat crowd.
Re:let's don our foil hats (Score:3, Funny)
I've graduated to a stainless steel helmet.
Re:Waaa waaaa "privacy concerns" (Score:3, Funny)
Plus, I suppose someone could drive a truck by your house and scan to see how good o
Re:Waaa waaaa "privacy concerns" (Score:3, Informative)
There's a hypthetical store that can track every thought you have, and present individually targeted ads that are so personally tailored that they can instantly create demand for every products at once. The "evil" store.
And there's
Re:Waaa waaaa "privacy concerns" (Score:5, Insightful)
i mean, if all wal-mart does is implement this system and guarantees that the tags will be disabled, i think that's all fine and well, but this should be monitored closely so that we don't end up with an orwellian big brother checking over our shoulders seeing what we bought.
i heard on off the hook how those member discount cards at grocery stores are monitored so feds can see if your buying large amounts of precursor chemicals for drugs (sudafed was one example). well, great, they're trying to stop the production of drugs, but they're doing it at the expense of the everyday citizen who may now be subject to investigation and hassles that may damage their reputation and/or career just because for some legitimate reason they needed a large amount of sudafed!
also, supposedly they are now implementing a massive government database to track all these purchases and scan the data looking for potential terrorist buying habits (lol!).
that's what i have . . . innocent until proven guilty; why should the government monitor citizens until it has legitimate grounds to?
Re:Waaa waaaa "privacy concerns" (Score:2)
Life sucks.
Re:What consumer privacy concerns? Answer: Choice (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:What consumer privacy concerns? Answer: Choice (Score:3, Interesting)
Uh..How?
I'm as big as a privacy buff as the next guy, but how the hell are the amassing a database about you simply by virtue of RFIDs?!
Like I mention below, the uproar with Benetton's plan was that the RFID was embedded in the CLOTHING. So that when you came BACK to the store, they could, ostensibly, compile a profile of your Benetton purchases by surrepitiously scanning your clothes as you