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Congress Expands FBI Powers

simoniker posted more than 9 years ago | from the expansion-of-patriotism dept.

United States 954

Dave writes "Well, since the Patriot Act II never got off the ground, looks like Congress has done the Justice Department a favor, according to Wired News, and added in some of the most controversial provisions into a non-descript intelligence spending bill. Now the FBI can subpoena information about you from practically any business or organization - without approval or permission from a judge, and with a gag order on the targeted organization. These spending bills are generally considered confidential and usually are not subject to public debate, so despite the far-reaching implications of these new powers, it's not being publicized like the Patriot Act was. Time to get out my patriotic hat and pin before it's too late."

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954 comments

Hmm (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550487)

In Soviet United States, Big Brother watches YOU!

More? (2, Insightful)

Luigi30 (656867) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550489)

So... now we have even less freedom? I'm starting to think about moving to some country where we can't be persecuted like this! Like... Russia maybe?

Re:More? (5, Interesting)

Frymaster (171343) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550698)

it's not like the fbi wasn't running amok yesterday though... yesterday they were justifying spying on anti-war prosters by claiming that lawful dissent was potentially terrorism. their big argument to support this assertion? anti-war demonstrators have attended "training camps"... and terrorists often attend "training camps". ergo: protesters == terrorists.

don't trust me. trust the sf chroncial

fbi scrutinizing anti-war protestors [sfgate.com]

choice quote:

Particularly chilling, he said, was the use of the phrase "training camps'' to describe instruction on nonviolence given to demonstrators. That phrase is often used to describe terrorist training sites.

i predict with these new powers the fbi will be surveilling all suspiscious "training camp" attendees such as major league baseball players.

Re:More? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550701)

Here's an idea...don't do anything suspicious. The majority of the US citizenship go their whole lives without ever becoming a concern for the FBI because they're simply straight-shooting, average Joes working hard to make a decent, moral living. The government's purpose is to protect you, not to spy on boring people. YOU'RE NOT THAT IMPORTANT.

FIRST ORWELL POST! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550492)

1984! 1984!

Ashcroft is worse than Hoover. Believe it. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550494)



There is a new evil in town.

If you agree, someone would like a word with you.

Whigs (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550495)

The Whigs were a political party.

Queue "Darth Vadar" Theme Music ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550507)

For all the talk of the GOP shrinking government there sure seems to be a lot of expansion.

Yes. In EVERY aspect. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550672)

Bush the younger is also increasing social programs at a rate 50% faster than Bill Clinton did. And that does not include the new perscription drug bill.

Re:Yes. In EVERY aspect. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550713)

Yep, including the deficit!

who can stop this? (4, Interesting)

hawkbug (94280) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550510)

When is somebody going to stand up and say enough is enough? A better question is, who CAN stand up to this? I don't know enough about how laws like this get passed without consent from the citizens of this country, so I would simply like to know who I can write and bitch to so this doesn't happen.

Re:who can stop this? (5, Informative)

PitaBred (632671) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550542)

Try your senator for one: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/ senators_cfm.cfm And your house reps: http://www.house.gov/Welcome.html They're the ones who really need to know your feelings on this.

Re:who can stop this? (4, Informative)

elmegil (12001) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550568)

Been said before, but bears repeating: EVERY time I have written my senator to say "don't do this stupid thing" I get back a form letter saying "this stupid thing is the right thing and I'm glad I stood up for it". Enough of that and you either stop caring or go postal.

Re:who can stop this? (2, Interesting)

proj_2501 (78149) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550703)

threaten to donate to his competition's campaign.
threaten to vote against him
start donating to his campaign when he does something right

Re:who can stop this? (4, Insightful)

setzman (541053) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550551)

I think the only thing that can stop this shit is a popular revolution. Look at Georgia. The government was corrupt, the people rose up and toppled it. From what I've heard it was nonviolent as well. It will take similiar action here for this to be stopped.

Unfortunatly, if you rise up against the US Government, you are a terrorist, and such a movement would likely be crushed by the military, which is mostly right-wing. A guerilla war against the government and popular uprising would be required.

Re:who can stop this? (0)

pi eater (714532) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550709)

Hey, good news everyone! I just got off the phone with the president of France and he is willing to support us by sending French troops.

Viva la revolution!

geek gear [wabshirts.com]

Re:who can stop this? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550567)

See, it's getting to a point where writing and bitching might not do any good. And you know, that is exactly why the 2nd Amendment exists, but it's TERRORISM to even suggest that, even though the Founding Fathers founded the country the same way...

Re:MOD PARENT UP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550692)

MOD PARENT UP!!

Re:who can stop this? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550569)

I don't know, that

sounds like something a terrorist would say

Re:who can stop this? (2, Insightful)

lcde (575627) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550570)

Write to whoever you want. If you don't have a multi-billion dollar industry behind you don't expect any reply. Maybe you might get a autographed picture of your representative to hand on your wall.

You can stop it: +1, Patriotic (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550578)

Impeach [votetoimpeach.org]
the Liars [whitehouse.org]

Very patriotically yours,
Kilgore Trout

Re:who can stop this? (1)

Johnnienumlock5 (713408) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550601)

Don't forget, as an individual you can make a difference, as a group we can change the world. If you knew what Dubya has done and not told you you would ask when is this going to apply to him. In the mean time we just need a revolution.

Re:who can stop this? (5, Insightful)

greechneb (574646) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550614)

Plain and simple, the voters. How many people truthfully voted in the last election? Probably less than 30% of the registered voters. Yeah, I know it's tough to take that 15 minutes out of your hectic day, but if you don't like who is in there now, it can be changed. Unfortunately at this point, not enough people really give a damn.

Re:who can stop this? (1)

geoffspear (692508) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550622)

Well, see, the people elect Congressmen who pass legislation like this, so what they do is, in theory, with the people's consent.

Of course, except for a few high-profile issues, the Congressmen know they can get away with passing all sorts of stuff that their constituents would never agree to, as long as they can make enough money to get negative ads about their opponents in the elections on TV, since the voters care more about style than about policy.

Basically, there's nothing you can do to stop them.

Re:who can stop this? (5, Insightful)

garcia (6573) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550650)

Just mentioned this to several of my "older" co-workers...

One told me I was insane for caring. "This went on in the 1950s and nothing bad happened why should you care now?"

Another said, "Well, I have lived a bit, traveled, moced about, have and have had friends on both sides of the law, have worked inside and outside of law enforcement, have been the victim of FBI intimidation when fighting racial hate crimes, have a Criminal Justice degree and completed half of law school, and with all that still find myself a free and able individual with nothing to fear from the law. So, no, I don't think you are being realistic."

When we have people that honestly believe this is for their benefit it will only get worse. It is truly a sad day when people choose to ignore history and believe that flag waving, rights waiving, non-sense that is fed to us daily by a near facist government.

Just my worthless .02,

Re:who can stop this? (1)

marderj (725013) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550666)

WE can stand up to this. WE are the ones that elected the people that passed this. The only problem is most voters are not educated about the issues and that's how things like this happen. The best thing to do is GO OUT AND VOTE and try to explain to someone else why they should too. Maybe start a letter campaign explaining to your senators and representatives that you cannot give them your vote if they are going to trample all over your rights. It's true that we are losing more and more rights every day, but as long as there are still elections in this country we still have the power to stop crap like this.

Re:who can stop this? (4, Interesting)

surprise_audit (575743) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550677)

A better question is, who CAN stand up to this?

They can only acquire information that exists... As more people and organisations become aware that this is happening, more information will become "disconnected" - for example, ISPs will only record that Mr.Sixpack paid $X for Internet service, but there will be no record of the websites he visited, or the people he exchanges email with. Corporate policies will require that logs of all kinds only be kept as aggregate numbers, if at all.

Alternatively, people will realize that you can fight fire with fire, and every possible item of data will be recorded, on paper, so that if the Powers-That-Be subpoena information, they'd get a response that would make SCO's million lines of printout look trivial.

Re:who can stop this? (-1, Troll)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550679)

When is somebody going to stand up and say enough is enough?

Timothy McVeigh did. I seriously doubt another WACO will happen again because of it. It takes drastic measures and someone with the balls to die and take other innocent ones with them for the govn't to listen.

With the advent of laws like this, I would anticipate more domestic terrorism like the Oklahoma City bombing. Its sad that people have to die for the government to listen, but maybe the govnernment has just set precedent through example.

Cool! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550517)

I figured the fourth reich would rise eventually. Didn't expect it to be the US though.

They are at it again (0, Flamebait)

t0ny (590331) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550518)

totalitarian regime change, here we come!

Your rights removal has been courtesy of the RNC. If you want freedom, become a millionaire like everybody else.

Re:They are at it again (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550595)

Hello, flamebait. Although I'm sure you'll be modded +57000 Insightful by the Slashdot sheepmods.

So.. (5, Funny)

ebob9 (726509) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550524)

How's the weather in Canada?

Re:So.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550649)

It's sunny on Vancouver Island today, but with Paul Martin about to be sworn in, the political situation is quickly worsening.

Wow, what a shock (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550528)

At least this is happening under a Republican administration, so all the lefties will raise a stink about it.

A Democrat would happily do the same thing, you just wouldn't hear about it - the right would shut up because they support it, and the left wouldn't want to speak out against "their guy".

Sigh (3, Insightful)

Evil Adrian (253301) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550530)

Invading the privacy of innocent people to get at the guilty... I love it. You know, if the law of averages worked out in its favor, like if 99% of the people they spied on were involved in something, I wouldn't have a problem, but I'd imagine that less than 0.001% of the population is up to no good, and who knows how many they spy on.

I'll probably disappear now that I posted this, because I'm sort of enemy fucking combatant for disagreeing with the abuse of power...

Re:Sigh (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550631)

And I thought that the Republicans were against big government.

Hypocrites

Re:Sigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550642)

but I'd imagine that less than 0.001% of the population is up to no good, and who knows how many they spy on.

Typical tinfoil hat-wearing jackass comment.

"I have absolutely no factual information to back me up on this...but I think I'm important enough for the FBI to be watching me, therefore the government must be bad."

Disagree with me all you want, but that's exactly what you just said.

Absolutely Fabulous! (5, Funny)

EndlessNameless (673105) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550533)

Yeah. Great. My open response to Congress can be found at www.wtf.com

My response (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550624)

My open response to Congress can be found at goatse.cx [goatse.cx] . Since we're getting assraped and all.

protecting self (1)

musikit (716987) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550537)

is it to the point where protecting my identity is a terrorist threat yet? i would say move out of the country but to where? all i have to say is 13 more months of Bush. please vote for anybody but Bush please.

Re:protecting self (3, Insightful)

BillFarber (641417) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550566)

all i have to say is 13 more months of Bush

I didn't realize that Bush was in Congress.

Just remember everyone... (1, Insightful)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550544)

Only 1 more year, then Shrub's gone. It should be sooner -- in a saner world, Ashcroft and Bush would have been imprisoned for Treason for some of this stuff, war crimes for some of the rest of it, and impeeched for a the last bit. But hey, we don't live in a sane world right now, we live in Neo-con-bizzarro world.

Even after Shrub is thrown out on his ear, the little power trip Ashcroft and his cronies are on will either 1. be ignored and abused by the other side or 2. be reigned back into control, or outright removed.

Personally, my gut says it'll be #1 -- there's no way the democrats will try to push it when the republicans can use it as a campaign platform.

Guess what they say about a slippery slope is true.

Re:Just remember everyone... (1)

ScooterBill (599835) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550609)

Do you really think that the Bush regime will allow an election result that doesn't have them still in power?

Re:Just remember everyone... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550687)

*eyeroll*

Are you such a tool that you actually believe what you're saying?

Re:Just remember everyone... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550620)

I wouldn't put so much blame on Bush as I would Ashcroft, Cheney, and the other puppet masters in the background. Bush is just a frontman patsy designed to take political heat. Luckily people are beginning to wise up to the fact that the government is trying to get by with a lot of stuff by throwing in this century's first political power word, 'terrorism'.

And yes, I agree with the parent poster. Ashcroft should be put away for good.

Re:Just remember everyone... (1)

setzman (541053) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550627)

Only 1 more year, then Shrub's gone.

Umm.. Right. You have heard of Shrub's latest ads, right? The ones that accuse Democrats of supporting the terrorists? With that and the gay-marriage phobia possessed by the neocon supporters, they will win the election next year with ease. They don't even have to have Diebold skewing the results for this strategy to work. God damn stupid people, just like white folks were back in the civil rights days and before.

Re:Just remember everyone... (-1, Troll)

Trolling4Columbine (679367) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550648)

Dickhead.

And exactly who is going to beat him? DEAN?? BWAHAHAHAHAAH!!! Even his own party hates his guts!

Re:Just remember everyone... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550651)

Mmm. Denial through self-delusion. Tasty, yet morally irresponsible.

And congrats for using the buzzword 'neo-con', that *proves* you're not a mindless sheep... oh wait, you are a mindless sheep. Oh well.

I bet... (0)

RevSmiley (226151) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550684)

I bet a number of democrats voted for this too.
When will people realize we need a complete turnover in D.C.?
You just keep sending the same people there over and over and keep getting the same results.
It's like banging yourself on the head because it feels good when you stop.
Throw all the bumbs out.
Elected office was never ment to be a life time occupation.
We now are faced with the political ruling class who have superior rights to the citizens.
Thats not a republic.
Thats a monarchy.
Throw them all out and you will not get crap like this warrentless searching.

Re:I bet... (1)

setzman (541053) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550705)

Wasn't there a movement at one time for term limits? What ever happened to that legislation?

I back this 100% (4, Funny)

WinDoze (52234) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550546)

I feel safer from terrorists already!<br><br>Uh-oh. I hope the FBI doesn't see I made this post with the word "terrorists" in it and IJ*&^Tu <NO CARRIER>

Exactly (5, Insightful)

ActionPlant (721843) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550555)

Not available to public debate? Seriously, it's scary. When something that impacts us this greatly, and gives an arm of the government this much authority is put through and passed without us being able to say anything about it, that's WRONG. The people who are in office are there because we put them there to represent our views. When we are going to finally get that concept in our heads and boot these idiots from office?

Damon,

Time to move to Canada... (5, Interesting)

ScooterBill (599835) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550557)

I guess the administration couldn't get their way by "taking it to the people" so they just said "fuck the people" and did it anyway.

I am saddened and ashamed of our government. While I don't expect to like everything the government does, I do expect to have a government that operates in the open. Otherwise we're no better than the corrupt regimes that we criticise.

M

Re:Time to move to Canada... (1)

BillFarber (641417) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550632)

I do expect to have a government that operates in the open.

Please name 1 government, in all of history, that has operated in the open.

Re:Time to move to Canada... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550711)

The United States of America?

Maybe that's why he expects the government to operate in the open...hmmm?

Of course, with less than 30% of the public voting these days, stuff like this was bound to happen.

Re:Time to move to Canada... (2, Informative)

GMontag (42283) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550656)

Well, having not read any more of the article than you, I can say that the ONLY member of the Administration who has a vote in the Congress only gets to vote in Senate ties.

Now, having glanced through the article, there is not even a show of the vote. Are you going to tell me that every member of the Congress who voted for this is in a conspiracy with the Executive Branch?

Re:Time to move to Canada... (-1, Offtopic)

Trolling4Columbine (679367) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550697)

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

Of course it's easier to sound principled by saying "That's it, I'm leaving!" instead of actually doing it.

Hot off the press (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550572)

The United States Goverment Has just issued a statement denying rumors of a war waged with Iraq some months ago. According to the statement "We were never at war with Iraq. We have alway been great allies with Iraq.".

paranoid (0)

Box Checker (710832) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550577)

fuck tin foil hats... it's time to buy a shot gun, move into a log cabin and write ominous letters to the media.

When you say... (5, Funny)

angst_ridden_hipster (23104) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550581)

Time to get out my patriotic hat and pin before it's too late.

Too late? I'm afraid I have to tell you that it's a few years too late. Ashcroft has already subpoenaed your purchase records, and already knows that you don't have that there patriotic hat and pin, now, when it really counts.

Sorry, bub, but you're screwed.

Democracy (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550584)

I'm SOO happy I don't live in the USA but in a democratic western country (thats sweden)..

If this goes on residents from USA soon going to move to china for the freedoom instead of the other way around..

Conservatives Sell Out Again (5, Insightful)

tjstork (137384) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550589)


All of this conservative rhetoric about the government as a bunch of jack booted thugs, and now, they go and do exactly what they claim to oppose.

After three years of total Republican rule, we have the largest and most intrusive government ever. So much for limited government and free enterprise out of the so-called party of limited government and free enterprise.

Re:Conservatives Sell Out Again (5, Interesting)

pr0t0plasm (183810) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550653)

If you assume that there was ever any substance to the 'smaller government' rhetoric, then this administration has been a great betrayal of Republican ideals.

If, however, you view the singular goal of the Republican party as the expropriation of taxpayer wealth for the enrichment of the entrenched industrial elite, and all of the cultural conservatism and libertarian rhetoric as tactics to achieve this goal, then this has been the most successful Republican administration ever.

I hope they do. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550593)

I hope they spy on you and figure out why you're so worried about them spying on you.

good riddance to dissenters.

on with the parade!

What you can do about it (5, Informative)

pr0t0plasm (183810) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550594)

i) Write a physical letter to all of your representitives in congress to berate/laud them (as appropriate) for their votes on this bill.
ii) Join the ACLU.
iii) Convince your employer to destroy all non-essential records of employee or customer transactions.
iv) vote, and convince all of your friends to vote, in the next federal election cycle.
v) If all else fails, vote with your feet. Canada is close by.

Re:What you can do about it (1)

Neil Watson (60859) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550683)

iv) vote, and convince all of your friends to vote, in the next federal election cycle.

This really upsets me. I'm sure the percentage of slashdotters that vote is above any national average so I'm not pointing fingers. However, how many unfair laws are passed in democratic nations because people either don't vote or vote in an uninformed manner? There are poeple in this world who are dying to be able to vote yet the majority of us who can vote don't. I think not voting should be crime.

Not enough people care enough to make this stop (4, Interesting)

deque_alpha (257777) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550598)

We (meaning people who are afraid of what the gov't is doing and are at least a little politically minded, not just /. readers) need to figure out how to get more people to care about their civil liberties and realize that the current government is taking them away. Until enough people are upset about this, it will not stop untill it is too late. Unfortunately, I don't believe Joe Sixpack will care about this until it starts affecting his fast food and TV viewing habits, and even then I think he'll be pretty accepting of it. I saw a bumper sticker recently, though obviously meant to be sarcastic, seemed to sum up the feelings that most people have on this topic: "That's OK, I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway."

How can we help put the implications of things like this in face of more people and move them to action? It seems like an impossible task...

Re:Not enough people care enough to make this stop (1)

ScooterBill (599835) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550635)

Yeah, it's like the frog that gets slowly boiled to death without even knowing it. One day you wake up and you're in a prison cell with a number tattooed on your arm...

Time to move... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550617)

Looks like it's time to "get the hell out of Dodge"... anyone have any good recommendations of a growing economy, where American's can move to and work relatively hassle free?

I'm serious with this question... I've been considering it for a few years now.

NOTICE OF SUBPOENA (1)

GeneralEmergency (240687) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550623)

RE: SLASHDOT.ORG
NO KNOWN ADRESS

You are hereby ordered to submit to a search and confiscation of all INFORMATION TERRORIST materials located on the servers providing material support for the domain SLASHDOT.ORG.

We will be dropping by with a few old shoe boxes a bit later to collect it all.

And please remember that your not allowed to tell anyone about this subp...DOH!

(GRRrrr)The FBI

I just had a though (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550637)

What if the RIAA says downloading music is terrorism? Does that mean the FBI can go after suspected downloaders and file-sharers? *gets tinfoil hat*

There's an old saying in politics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550645)

You get the government you deserve

Timely (5, Informative)

4of12 (97621) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550647)


Given this recent revelation [smh.com.au] , I'm sure everyone is ready to trust the FBI with greater power and lesser accountability:)

It's really a shame though. I know a lot of the people working there are quite professional and care about doing a good job and protecting the Constitution of the United States, the ideals that make America a good place.

But after the legacy of Hoover misusing the agency many decades ago, evidently missing the boat on predicting the 9/11 catastrophe, the last thing they need is this kind of power handed to them by higher ups. Those superiors are political appointees with a vision for enforcement that shares more with authoritarian states than with the principles America was founded upon.

If I was a mid-level bureaucrat in the FBI, I'd make efforts to establish accountability policies, citizen review boards, etc. even if the current administration doesn't think they're necessary.

If they don't this, then they can be assured of getting tarred and feather during Congressional hearings 5-10 years from now, much like what happened to the CIA in the late 1970's.

Bomb (4, Funny)

Stile 65 (722451) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550654)

Terrorist gun Waco Ruby Ridge Patriot Act Federal Reserve FBI CIA Osama bin Laden Saddam Hussein Echelon Carnivore

Now, imagine that each time this entry crosses the Internet, government keyword parsers are triggered and the entire TCP session gets flagged for later review.

Reload often for maximum government annoyance! :P

John Titor at work...again (3, Interesting)

GillBates0 (664202) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550655)

Man, every time I see a story like this (and about the RIAA, DMCA, the Patriot Act, the misdoings of the Dept. of Homeland Security), I go one notch up in believing John Titor [johntitor.com] .

The link to that site has been posted quite a few times in /.'s discussions. He claimed that he was a Time Traveller from 2036. Among the "predictions" he made back in 2000, was the Black hole research at CERN, the Chinese Man mission, the Iraq war, the Columbia disaster, and most importantly the VAST increase in powers that the US Government gave itself to suppress citizens.

The last one supposedly leads to a US Civil war in 2004. I might have laughed at his posts in 2000, but with these more and more frightening developments, I can't help but wonder.

An interesting read nevertheless.

Threaten our liberties? (1)

Pink_Robot (706190) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550658)

Are they threatening our liberties? Of course not From lifeandliberty.gov, the gov's propoganda site for this stuff: "The Patriot Act limits domestic terrorism to conduct that breaks criminal laws, and endangers human life" WOW! You have to break a law to be prosecuted from that law! Later on in that site, they explain that the government is only interested in the library habits of terrorists, not library habits of regular people, so regular people don't worry. To assuage fears about library privacy being violated, they go on to say:
This federal court, however, can issue these orders only after the government demonstrates the records concerned are sought for an authorized investigation to obtain foreign intelligence information not concerning a U.S. person or to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities, provided that such investigation of a U.S. person is not conducted solely on the basis of activities protected by the First Amendment.
Even THAT isn't true under the new law. The FBI can just write themselves a letter giving themselves permission to get private information from libraries while preventing the libraries from informing their users. That's unbelievable!

Camel under the tent flap... (1)

advocate_one (662832) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550659)

wow... looks like you'se guys got the whole camel snuck under that tent flap and not just the nose...

The gouvernment fears you (1)

LocalHero (626750) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550664)

Dont you see. Your gouvernment fears you. Thats what its all about. Those in charge have cheated you and now they fear that the people will get back on them. Why would they need that kind of security if the where doing things for the peoples best?

FBI and CIA is only needed if your the president and are doing a bad job

Getting a Democrat in there won't suffice... (5, Insightful)

vudufixit (581911) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550667)

I've noticed Presidents usually keep a lot of their predecessors' policies intact. Don't count on any Democratic successor to Bush to make a serious attempt to repeal any of this Patriot Act crap. IIRC, wasn't the "clipper chip" an idea initiated under the Clinton regime? Democrats may be "liberal" but they're just as quick to trade our privacy and freedoms for so-called security if they think it'll score points with voters.

You can kiss my .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550673)

Dont live in US. dont care

Patriotic Hats? Great Idea! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550686)

Yeah, I should think about getting myself a few new patriotic hats. Here's [patriots.ca] a great place to get them, too!

Today's posting is brought to you by the words "Political" and "Asylum"!!!

Prosecution (2, Interesting)

shystershep (643874) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550688)

Well, I was going to write that at least they couldn't prosecute you for anything they found without a court-approved warrant, but unfortunately that's not true. It may be information about you, but if it's not in your possession it is not a "search" that triggers your 4th Amendment protections. At least under existing law, I don't think that subpoena-ing your ISP would be considered a "search" -- just like if you had friend hold your plans for world domination (along with the crack you were going to sell to finance said plans) and they got searched by the FBI, you'd be out of luck as far as griping about the search.

But, hey, if you don't have anything to hide, what are you worried about?

the feds are ok? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#7550707)

although under the gun, they're just like most of us.

they seem to know what's going on.

they're not going to suck up to any corepirate nazi storm troopers.

we've heard they use gnu/linux stuff themselves now?

hey feds, we believe in you. go get those sco scamsters.

FBI..... (1)

subzero_ice (624972) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550708)

Officers: Knock Knock ISP: Who is it? Officers: FBI. We need information of people who have these IP addresses. ISP: But..tt it says RIAA.

The price of freedom (1)

Dutchmaan (442553) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550710)

> ..and the people said "Who can oppose the beast"

Sometimes when I think of technology, and how it invades our lives (sometimes in dark ways) that phrase makes perfect sense... ..and the phrase "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" comes to mind.

We have been lazy and we are losing our freedom because of it.. Technology like fire must be constantly monitored lest the servant become the master.

American Dream? (3, Insightful)

silicongodcom (241132) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550714)

How long until we need to rotate the American Flag icon 180 degrees?

(That may sound like a troll if you haven't read the.. what's it called? oh ya.. Constitution)

Thank God For The 2nd Amendment (5, Funny)

Slider451 (514881) | more than 9 years ago | (#7550715)

When the 1st Amendment no longer protects your voice.

And when the 4th Amendment no longer protects your privacy or your suff.

Thank God we have the 2nd Amendment to tell our elected representatives that enough is enough.

It's time to put "... from my cold, dead hands" back where it belongs.
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