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Canadian Government Weary of Patriot Act

samzenpus posted more than 9 years ago | from the stop-reading-my-mail-eh dept.

United States 1238

IllogicalStudent writes "An article on canoe discusses how the Canadian government is moving to counter worries surrounding Canadian citizens' privacy being compromised by the United States' Patriot act. Apparently the FBI currently has the right, through Patriot, to search documents which may contain Canadian information sent to US firms carrying out work under contract. Thankfully, privacy still means something up here."

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Just goes to show (5, Insightful)

alexwcovington (855979) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560532)

When you get paranoid, your friends suffer more than your enemies...

Re:Just goes to show (2, Insightful)

MarkRose (820682) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560555)

I don't see how this applies here. First, the US wasn't being paranoid when they implemented the USA Patriot act -- it was simply a police-state power grab.

Canada, on the other hand, has every right to be concerned. Perhaps our "paranoia" will bring more attention to the issue in the us, helping our friends to the south out.

Allow me to clarfiy (5, Insightful)

alexwcovington (855979) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560572)

The Patriot Act was the result of Paranoia... Of people willing to endorse anything if it was security-related. I would still like to count Canada as a US friend, even if half the politicians down here call it "Canuckistan"...

Re:Allow me to clarfiy (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560688)

as opposed to the post election dumbfuckistan?
http://shotgun.shacknet.nu:81/mapofnewamerica.gif

Tell me about it. (4, Funny)

nounderscores (246517) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560817)

Here's the thing,
I didn't vote for you.
It was cool cause I didn't want to.
Yeah, yeah. Since u been gone.
Inaugurated, sat in the oval room.
Wasn't long before the dot-com boom.
Yeah, yeah. Since u been gone.
And all you'd ever hear me say
Is "Don't globalize our jobs!"
That's all you'd ever hear me say.

BUT SINCE U BEEN GONE....
We've got this insane cowboy.
I visit MoveOn-Dot-Com
After you - rednecks get - what they want
Since u been gone

How can I put it, I was afraid of you.
I even was afraid of Janet Reno.
Yeah, yeah. Since u been gone.
How come I never hear you say
"We'll have a smaller government"
I guess you never felt that way.

BUT SINCE U BEEN GONE....
Hi-Cap mags are back in our schools
Torture isn't wrong. Yeah, yeah.
After you - the whole world - hates our guts.
Since u been gone.

You had your chance, you blew it
Out of sight out of mind.
Shut your fly, I just can't take it
Again and again and again and again

SINCE U BEEN GONE.... (Since u been gone....)
Eternal war against terror.
Little Green Footballs is popular.
After you (After you)
Our dollar - took a plunge.
I'd vote for your wife if I could.
But not John Kerry, he's a douche bag.
After you (After you)
Now you know (you know)
You should know( you should know) Red China,
The Chinese own our ass.

Since u been gone
Since u been gone
Since u been gone

Big apologies to Kelly Clarkson's "Since U Been Gone" [letssingit.com]

Re:Allow me to clarfiy (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560722)

Hell, half of my Canadian buddies (mostly known through UF) call it "Canuckistan" too.

Re:Allow me to clarfiy (3, Funny)

Grey Ninja (739021) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560771)

As a Canadian, I just want to assure you that we do indeed refer to ourselves as being Canuckistani. It's absolutely hilarious to be talking to an American about Canuckistan. I remember one time I was playing America's Army, and I was going on about how we shared a border with Russia, and were the country furthest north. The guy I was talking to never clued in.

On that note, I just want to mention that Canadians are rarely seriously offended by Americans. We just think they are good for humor value [comcast.net] if nothing else. :)

first canadian post (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560533)

this post in private and may not be read by the FBI.

Danger (0, Offtopic)

mirko (198274) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560534)

Is the Canada the USA's Palestina ?

Does this mean (5, Funny)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560536)

We can expect to see a massive farting extravaganza as Terence and Philip sort out the US?

s/Weary/Wary/ (2, Insightful)

franl (50139) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560545)

'nuf said.

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (0, Troll)

illtron (722358) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560562)

Doh! You beat me to my awesome burn while I skimmed the article!

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (5, Funny)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560591)

I crossed from the US to Canada once, (I'm a Brit) and the toughest question the Canadian authorities (represented by a young female border guard) asked me was "Do you know you have the loveliest accent?"

Canadians rule.

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (4, Insightful)

SenseiLeNoir (699164) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560641)

Seconded...

I am also a brit, and the one thing i really love about Canada is the way it merged the Best of Britain, America and Europe into a country.

It is certainly intresting how Canada is more socialist than even Britain sometimes, and its a good thing, when you also see how its run, and the kind nature of the people.

I am not dissing Americans either, American citizens are really nice too. But I see the attitudes of the people not nessasarily reflected in aspects of the administrative procedures, which really can ruin a hoilday by a tourist.

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560647)

> It is certainly intresting how Canada is more socialist than
> even Britain sometimes

It's a good demonstration to the US on why to avoid the socialist trap :->. Canada's economy is in a mess :->

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (1, Flamebait)

IWannaBeAnAC (653701) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560663)

... and the USA's isn't???

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (4, Insightful)

lphuberdeau (774176) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560820)

I think your forgetting about the hundreds (thousands?) of billions the US has in debt for various reasons, including the Bush wars.

Canada has debts too, because they decided at some point to develop infrastructures and improve life quality of the citizens. Now they are trying to pay it off.

Did all those bombs bring you inner peace?

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (-1, Offtopic)

paganizer (566360) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560702)

I've got a son turning 18 (draft age) in 4 years, so I'm shopping for a new nationality; Canada tops the list, but the whole socialist/no guns without heavy registration thing really puts me off.
Anyone else manage to come up with a better alternative? my priorities are:
1) No Gestapo
2) I keep my guns (in case #1 changes)
3) Decent Schools

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (5, Informative)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560724)

If you think that a functioning welfare state providing a safety net for the poor constitutes state socialism, and think that having to register gun ownership is an infringement of your basic human rights ... I recommend that you move to the USA.

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (4, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560813)

Do you really think that owning a firearm protects you against a police state? Honestly? The amount and type of firepower available to the US military are so far in excess of those available to the civilian population[1] that you stand no chance at all if the military were to be used to quell a popular uprising. Not to mention the fact that it is far more likely that a modern totalitarian state would rely far more heavily on the control of information than the control of firepower (dead people don't make good serfs, after all).

[1] Unless I'm mistaken and you can own IR / RADAR hybrid missiles, and your own SDI system and nuclear deterrent.

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (1)

kantai (719870) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560833)

Are you aware of the term "From my cold dead hands?"

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (-1, Troll)

Steepe (114037) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560830)

I honestly hope you are serious about moving, and I will help you pack. If you and your son are such complete cowards you are scared of a draft that does not exist, then please please please get the fuck out. Members of my family have been in every war the US has had, including the revolution. I am ashamed for them and myself, (DS1) that we faught to protect your cowardly ass.

please please please get out quick. Don't wait another week. Where are you at? I'll happily take vacation to come help you pack.

While I realize that once a coward, always a coward, if you think just because you are in canada that will stop the mooslums from attacking you, (Yes I know its mispelled, I did it on purpose to show the coward muhamad ali's method of saying it) you are insane. They attacked the WTC because it was a shining example of freedom, but they hate all christians, and intend to kill us all. no matter how cowardly you are, or where you run and hide.

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (2, Insightful)

qw(name) (718245) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560834)


You forgot one:
Borderline socialist state
Free speech is systematically being taken away from the people. Far more so that here in US. When a person can be legally arrested for being "politically incorrect" a huge red flag should go up. Unfortunately, that's the direction the US is headed...

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560752)

I'm a brit also.

I cross quite a bit to visit some friends. Some days I'm not given a hard time, but some days they want to rummage through my bags and ask endless silly questions.

To the best of my knowledge, I have no middle eastern blood, but I do have dark skin and hair.

In general the canadians are friendlier, but not always friendly. I'm shocked when they don't ask at least three or four questions, it's that rare. The americans usually ask more.

FWIW, I have no record, or ties to anything remotely questionable. I believe it is just how I look. I've noticed that when I don't travel alone, they hassle me quite a bit less.

I just don't want people to start getting the idea that the canadian/american border has become friendly, they seem to still be paranoid on both sides.

Border guards (4, Insightful)

jimhill (7277) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560684)

One time I zipped up into Canada on a day trip. Going in, the Canadian border guards wanted to know if I had any firearms or ammunition. Coming back, the US border guards wanted to know if I had any fruits or vegetables. That says a lot (hey, two words!) about our two countries.

Re:s/Weary/Wary/ (1)

Grey Ninja (739021) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560784)

Just lucky you aren't Canadian. I find that I usually just get waved through American customs (travelling and going about my business in the US is another story though), but on my way back, I get interrogated by Canadian customs. Luckily for you though, they only really act that way towards fellow Canadians. ;-)

Weary or wary? (5, Insightful)

illtron (722358) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560549)

So are they weary or wary? A little copy editing goes a long way, you know.

Re:Weary or wary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560595)

So are they weary or wary? A little copy editing goes a long way, you know.

Isn't it amazing that attention to detail is not important to the editors of a technology site? Makes you wonder what the real focus of this site is...

Re:Weary or wary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560678)

Makes you wonder what the real focus of this site is...

Web standards compliance! No wait...

Staying as a non-commercialized haven for geek discussion! No wait...

Re:Weary or wary? (5, Funny)

MarkRose (820682) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560614)

They're just too weary to be wary about nary a nitpick.

Re:Weary or wary? (1)

Lemm (88514) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560635)

So are they weary or wary?

I'm gonna hedge my bets and say an emphatic "yes".

Re:Weary or wary? (1)

Quobobo (709437) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560739)

Speaking as a Canadian, I'm going to say both.

Land crossing question (4, Insightful)

DrXym (126579) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560551)

Do Canadians get fingerprinted and photographed at the border like all us other foreign criminals?


I wonder how many terrorists this amazingly intrusive and expensive system has actually caught.

Re:Land crossing question (2, Funny)

alexwcovington (855979) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560559)

Not yet, but foreign nationals and dual citizens living in Canada have to get tagged at the crossing. The way Dubya acts, I'm surprised they haven't broken out the chickenwire yet like they did on the Mexican border.

Re:Land crossing question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560577)

I hope so them Canadians are dangerous... I live in michigan and I must say I'm terrified of a canadian invasion and even more of them canadian born terrorists... They might make us all say eh after every sentence... Now thats a real weapon of mass destruction...

Re:Land crossing question (3, Funny)

MarkRose (820682) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560586)

What are you talking aboot? We don't talk like that, eh! So take off, ya hosehead!

Re:Land crossing question (1)

bragolach (855994) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560606)

This is why the thinking part of national defense is left up to those qualified for it.

Re:Land crossing question (5, Insightful)

DarkBlack (5773) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560593)

No one will ever know. All that has to be reported is the number of times they have requested and the number of times it was granted.

At least before they had to have some sort of probable cause, now all they need is one word - terrorism.

It's interesting because I got a big long winded letter from one of my senators explaining why he voted to erode my rights, and that he didn't think that the act eroded constitutional rights. I guess he missed that part about probable cause in amendment IV of the Bill of Rights. Go figure.

For your information, this was Senator John Warner from Virginia.

Re:Land crossing question (5, Insightful)

brettlbecker (596407) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560619)

Don't think for a minute that the PATRIOT act is about actually catching criminals. Of course, in order to catch a criminal, an actual law has to be broken first, and this act sorta just steps to the side of that little point...

But that's not the issue. The PATRIOT act is simply a control-through-fear technique. Keep the masses in fear of 1) an outside power - the terrorists 2) the structure designed to remove 1) - the law ... mix together and you have a cycle of fear-relief-fear-relief ad infinitum. Oh, and it helps to have such a compliant media, and it REALLY helps to have such a heavily sedated public. And as a bonus, the government can basically collect any information it wants about any member of the public. Just for future... consideration. It really is Orwell-worthy... if only he could see it actually come to fruition.

Oh, and about the numbers of criminals that have been caught under this law? I dunno, but the number of convictions as far as terrorism goes is exactly ZERO. Nice job there, Ashcroft!

B

Re:Land crossing question (5, Insightful)

sgant (178166) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560717)

Exactly. It's a world of fear....not just a nation.

We were better off when we had the Soviets and Communism to fear. Back then, the media was pretty much under control and not the fear-spewing idiots they are now. But after the fall of the Soviet Union, there was nothing really to fear for a short while....the politicians didn't have anyone to rally against, the media didn't have fear-laden headlines to sell commercials and papers.

It's a fiasco now...with terrorists behind every tree, global warming melting the entire Earth, liberal media vs. conservative media....dogs & cats living together: MASS HYSTERIA!

If you don't like it, don't visit here. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560621)

Do Canadians get fingerprinted and photographed at the border like all us other foreign criminals? You complain, but you offer no solution. I suggest that you are worse than the problem you complain about.
And, if memory serves, the terrorists that took down the WTC came through Canada.
Are we (the US) supposed to look the other way when it comes to Canada? It seems like we did in the past, and terrorists got through, took 4 jets, crashing 3 of them into buildings. What would you suggest?

The terrorists did NOT come through Canada (5, Informative)

seifried (12921) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560664)

That is a false media meme that has become truth simply because it has been repeated so often.

To quote:

This is not the first time that Canada has been falsely accused of harboring terrorists and allowing its space to be used as a launching pad for a potential attack on the United States. Immediately after the September 11 attacks, media reports flashed around the world stating that several (and in some reports, all) of the 19 hijackers entered the United States from the northern border. We now know that all of the terrorists entered the United States directly from overseas with US-issued documents. None of the terrorists came from Canada.

http://www.canadianembassy.org/ambassador/030116 -e n.asp?format=print

Re:The terrorists did NOT come through Canada (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560802)

And the Algerians with the explosives? I suppose Allah just magic'd them at the boarder crossing where they were caught by a US customs official. Yeah, thanks for getting all your news from High Times.

You have no right to visit here (2, Insightful)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560642)

Other than what is granted by the host country. What is wrong with a country wanting to track foreign nationals inside their border? When does your personal rights exceed that of a country you do not even hold citizenship in?

In other words, does your selfishness override the rights of the country in question to do what it can to protect its citizens and police its borders?

As someone else mentioned, your not forced to come here.

Along your line of reasoning why should I have to declare anything to foreign customs agents when I arrive or leave their countries? Why should I have to tell German authorities I am in their country. Hell with that, why should I put up with "THEIR" idea of airport security, after all it annoys me.

Re:You have no right to visit here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560690)

When does your personal rights exceed that of a country you do not even hold citizenship in?

When you're forced to start donating bodily fluids? ;-)

Re:You have no right to visit here (5, Insightful)

statistically dead (799464) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560715)

The problem with the PATRIOT act is that the US is using it to force other countries to supply data on individuals that don't even travel to the US - The EU has been pressured into granting Paseenger Flight Data be given to the US for flights in EU airspace (that don't even go to the US). The US government is demanding biometric passports from other countries because US officials are too lazy or don't want to spend money on granting visas. The fact is that the US is forcing the effects of the PATRIOT act indiscriminately onto non-US citizens that don't even visit the US

Re:You have no right to visit here (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560742)

As someone else mentioned, your not forced to come here.

You're right, thats why I voted with my feet and came home. There's a lot less paranoia in Australia

Re:You have no right to visit here (3, Insightful)

Fallus Shempus (793462) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560775)

Then close the border, or do you want the tourist dollar? And yes my prsonal rights do (or should) exceed those of a 'country', not a citizen of that coutry, but the country itself. This is xenophobia, pure and simple, it's the assumption that a foreign national is a more of a threat than a citizen, go tell Timothy McVey.

Re:You have no right to visit here (3, Insightful)

nbert (785663) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560832)

Fair enough, a sovereign country can do almost anything within its borders. However, I believe that it's nevertheless valid to complain about unreasonable treatment of visitors.

For example back in the mid 90's I had to declare that I'm not planning any attacks on the White House when I visited the US (coming from Europe). There surely was no harm done to me, but seriously, how childish can it get?

Re:Land crossing question (3, Informative)

bug (8519) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560697)

Let's get some perspective on this. Other countries are not exactly the bastion of privacy that they are made out to be on Slashdot. It is common in Europe that you need to present identification when checking into a hotel. For foreigners, they usually make a copy of your passport. This information is then kept for later use or forwarded to the police so that they can then (you guessed it) track you.

Re:Land crossing question (1)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560782)

This information is then kept for later use or forwarded to the police so that they can then (you guessed it) track you.
Wow. Paranoid much?

Do you really think the French Police (for example) have nothing better to do than track the thousands of foreign tourists who are visiting Paris at any one time? Yes, you need photo ID to check into a hotel, but the last time I used a Travelodge, that was true in the US, too. I've stayed in many European hotels, and only once had by ID duplicated (at a real fleapit dive in Paris).

Re:Land crossing question (1)

Archibald Buttle (536586) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560730)

Back in September last year my wife and I crossed the land border from Canada into Buffalo NY and didn't get fingerprinted. I'm British and my wife is South Korean.

Now the border officials did have webcams and fingerprint scanners attached to their computers, but they didn't use them.

Since the US/Canada borders tend to be quite busy I'd be suprised if people would tolerate being stopped and fingerprinted every journey. That would cause severe damage to trade relations, which could have a really bad impact on the US economy.

Re:Land crossing question (2, Funny)

smchris (464899) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560798)

I read just the other day that there is a pilot program to "tag and release" Canadians at a couple ports of entry using RFID.

http://news.com/States+to+test+ID+chips+on+forei gn +visitors/2100-1039_3-5552120.html

Privacy laws extend internationally (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560556)

US companies with data on citizens of European Union countries have to follow the European Privacy laws. So, the situation is more complex than just the US extending its law internationally, othe countries do so as well.

Re:Privacy laws extend internationally (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560581)

US companies with data on citizens of European Union countries have to follow the European Privacy laws.

No, US companies have to follow US laws. That's why Canada has something to worry about. And I don't see why canadian companies would be stupid enough to export their PRIVATE personnal data...

Re:Privacy laws extend internationally (1)

MarkRose (820682) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560601)

Why? Because it's cheaper to outsource. And it's not just outsourcing -- for instance, some forms of specialised data recovery are only performed in the US -- and the US government would then be at liberty to snatch any and all information without telling anyone, and under a gag order. This nearly happened when the Government of British Columbia (a province) held a practice data recovery exercise, and real data was sent to an IBM lab in the US. The government is legitimately concerned.

Re:Privacy laws extend internationally (1)

mottie (807927) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560677)

its a pretty sad state of affairs when you have to specify that BC is a province. Oh well, at least you didn't have to explain that a province is "kind of like a state, but canadian"

Re:Privacy laws extend internationally (1)

KontinMonet (737319) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560706)

British Columbia is a province? I thought it was a town somewhere near Scotland....


(A joke, BTW)

Re:Privacy laws extend internationally (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560792)

I agree. MarkRose is sad.

He assumes that only Canadians know BC is a province. Where in all the posts do you see anyone not knowing BC is a province?

Waiting........

Oh, I get it.

By definition, all citizens of the USA are stupid.

Re:Privacy laws extend internationally (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560607)

My company has a service hosted in the US of A. (We are Australian.) The service provider had to sign contracts ensuring that 'our' state and federal privacy laws would be upheld. PATRIOT (afaik) lets the FBI / CIA / Secret Service wander up to any data store and say 'hand it over, and don't tell them that you have.'

This seems to explicitly and secretly *breach* any privacy laws extended to the service provider.

I am lobbying for my company to cancel the service and host locally (maybe with a different product) as I value the privacy of our customers and their information.

Re:Privacy laws extend internationally (2, Interesting)

nuggz (69912) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560637)

The problem is if the US government demands the US company hand over data via the Patriot act, they have to.
So this could result in a messy case of a US company having to decide to follow the US law, or the EU law. In this case the company is screwed, unfortunately the fear is a US company would rather break a foreign law then the US law.

Re:Privacy laws extend internationally (3, Insightful)

nbert (785663) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560741)

There is a flaw in this argument, because those European privacy laws have different intentions than the Patriot Act (I guess I don't really have to explain the differences).

And as for your second point:
If I'm for example buying a book at amazon.de (having created an account there) they have to obey German/EU privacy laws, because they are doing business in Germany. Since I can log into amazon.com with my account I don't really believe that they are following the official safe harbor policy, but in principle they have to respect the laws of the countries they do business in, which has nothing to do with the EU extending laws beyond their borders.

Doh... (0)

shoma-san (739914) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560564)

As if there was something of importance coming through Canadian mail... (pst - dont worry so much)

Quick hide the WMD Canada! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560565)

You might be next - it would be much cheaper for George W. to invade ya.

Google should move to Canada (1, Insightful)

Everyman (197621) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560583)

If Google was headquartered in Canada and kept all their user cookie data, search-term data, and Gmail servers inside of Canada, the world would be a better place because ordinary people would have more privacy rights.

Re:Google should move to Canada (1)

alexwcovington (855979) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560598)

I'm more concerned with what Google itself wants to do with all that information on me at this point. Though it certainly doesn't help to think what would happen if it got into even more hands!

Re:Google should move to Canada (1)

cybathug (561017) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560602)

If Microsoft was headquartered in Canada, the world would... Uhh... Well, it'd still suck.

Re:Google should move to Canada (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560692)

or they could just not keep it.

you know.. they used to have a motto..

Re:Google should move to Canada (1)

Grey Ninja (739021) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560828)

Actually, I've worked for the IT department of HR in a Canadian corporation... so I am a little familiar with such things. The general policy is that it becomes a HUGE pain to the company to keep personal records of any kind (as access must be seriously restricted), and it's illegal to keep personal information that you don't have a business need to have.

So I think it most likely that Google wouldn't want to keep cookie and search term data... at least not with any sort of identifiable information attached to it.

Weary? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560587)

We're tired of it too!

Canadian? (1)

Tavor (845700) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560589)

You don't have to be Canadian to be weary/wary of the Patriot Act. You just need Sovereign power to get your message across.

Industrial Espionage ? surely not ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560603)


Its not like the USA was built on industrial espionage gleened from Britain's industrial revolution [cuny.edu]

now everything is global, who is to say that USA doesn't still do it, but now they take the info from any country "legally" Hmmmmmmm....
dodgy fnckers

Next up for Canada... (5, Insightful)

mikeb39 (670045) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560604)

Telling Bush he can shove his missile defense system up his idea hole. We really would rather work towards a more peaceful world through understanding and compromise, not a peace built on fear and threats.

A really stupid overly idealist view you have. (-1, Troll)

Shivetya (243324) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560682)

Unfortunately many in the world do not hold your view. They flat out don't care. They do love the deluded hippy mentality that still exists in parts of the world. It helps them further their goals as they know and rely on these types to drag down efforts to curtail their horrendous activities.

In case you haven't noticed most violence in this world doesn't involve the United States. Also most cases of violence in this world involve a very militaristic and deranged sect of Islam. They don't care that you want peace, they want to rule, they want power, and they want your death. They freely kill civilians because they know they can do so with near impunity as most countries would rather not ask for help in containing them.

How long should we ignore Sudan? There may peace their one day but that won't occur until how many Africans are killed by Islamic murderers who operate with impunity because the world doesn't give a shit?

A peaceful world will only come about when those who prey on civilians because of religious, ethnic, or other differences are eradicated. You cannot do that through words. Words only serve to extend the suffering that their victims endure. Words allowed nearly a million Africans die in the 90s and are killing millions now. Words allowed the Taliban to nearly destroy Afghanistan. Words are allowing the regime in Iran to develop nuclear weapons. Words will get you killed, me killed, and whole lot of other people striving for peace killed.

Just as corporal punishment discouraged kids from acting out in school so does the threat and implemenation of destruction curtail the activities of the lunatic groups that seek to impose their views on others.

Re:A really stupid overly idealist view you have. (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560733)

Just as corporal punishment discouraged kids from acting out in school so does the threat and implemenation of destruction curtail the activities of the lunatic groups that seek to impose their views on others.
Just like the death penalty has eliminated murders from all those Texas cities... oh, wait, no it hasn't.

PS : You'll notice the Canadians were more than happy to send troops to Afghanistan, from where the terrorists actually were operating.

PPS : Threadjack!

Re:A really stupid overly idealist view you have. (4, Insightful)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560747)

A peaceful world will only come about when those who prey on civilians because of religious, ethnic, or other differences are eradicated.

So basically, when the poorly named Homo Sapiens is extinct.

Re:Next up for Canada... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560693)

Now what do you do if the other guy doesn't agree with you on the 'peace is good' topic?

Peace is not ever built on fear and threats it's usually built on economic freedom, basic personal rights and trust in institutions.

Don't you have a more coherent thing to say on this issue than "not a peace built on fear and threats" ?

Sorry to say that's not the American way (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560705)

The facts of history indicate peace [uwec.edu] isn't something the USA has ever been interested in, a nation can change but i dont think it will be soon.

Re:Next up for Canada... (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560743)

This looks good on paper and from an utopia view of the world... but lacks the following realities...

1 - The opposition is not seeking peace nor compromise.

2 - You can't negotiate with evil. (of course to understand this one must agree that there is such a thing as evil)

3 - Iran is a very current example of where working "towards a more peaceful world through understanding and compromise" will not work... how has the EU done so far with IRAN? With IRAN knowing EU won't lift a finger (militarily) and knowing that the EU may well sympathize with IRAN and again oppose America if America or Israel decides to lift a finger... why should IRAN change there ways... I doubt the EU will even allow a UN resolution on IRAN that has any teeth after what happened as a result of resolutions on IRAQ... IRAN is playing EU for their fool...

4 - If Canada wants to have that kind of foreign policy (that undermines that of the US, giving aid and comfort to its advisories). then get (and pay for) your own military to protect your own country and stop relying on the evil war mongering US as part of you defense plans. Your principles should demand that... You think socialized heath care is expensive, try funding a real military...

I for one welcome... (5, Insightful)

jarich (733129) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560623)

I for one welcome our new Slashdot, politicized story spinning overlords!

Okay, so it's not new, but it seems to be more obvious recently...

Re:I for one welcome... (1)

Tavor (845700) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560651)

To quote my professors from both my English 102 *and* History 109 classes: "Every writer has bias ('spin'). You just have to comprehend the position the writer is taking, and the historical circumstances that were taking place at the time."

Who cares? (0, Flamebait)

digitaltraveller (167469) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560626)

A few weeks after 9/11 the Canadian government gave the U.S. government full access to all government data on Canadian citizens, with no apparent quid pro quo. Fair enough, I probably would have given the kitchen sink too, but what would have been nice is some agreement outlining eg. more economic integration between Canada and the U.S., a la the very successful NAFTA treaty.

Because now it's harder for me to travel 5 minutes north (yes, that's right, I'm Canadian and the U.S. is to the NORTH of my house) to see my friends in the U.S., over an invisible dotted line drawn by politicians. And no, I'm not talking about Alaska.

The U.S. and Canada are symbiotes both economically and security-wise. More integration is better for everyone. I think a really good idea is Canada becoming a commonwealth of the U.S., like Puerto Rico.

Meh, probably not (2, Interesting)

alexwcovington (855979) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560643)

I think a really good idea is Canada becoming a commonwealth of the U.S., like Puerto Rico. Puerto Ricans are stuck in a lovely political loophole that's not quite statehood and not quite independence. The US Government can basically run roughshod over Puerto Rico with nothing but the occasional referendum to maybe change the situation. A better idea would be for Canada to look at joining the European Union (it's already a member of ESA) and making that kind of transnational governance take hold over more of the world than a teensie continent.

Re:Who cares? (1)

Mr. Flibble (12943) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560650)

So you live the the greater Toronto area - and north of you is detroit.

Toronto - God help you...

(Born and raised in Montreal)

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560805)

You sir are a moron, Toronto is NOT north of detroit. And he mentioned a 5 minute visit to the US from Toronto ? I would suggest he probably resides in Windsor, Ontario (yes it is in Canada, Ontario does not end at London)

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560808)

Most likely Windsor.

This from an ignorant New Englander.

God, are you stupid or what?

"(Born and raised in Montreal) "

Yup, you are stupid.

We lost! (1)

SsShane (754647) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560628)

When CNN is assuring Americans about making sure their "security" is covered, you be sure that we have lost the "War of Terror". Sorry Canadians. We'll bounce back eventually, I hope.

Fortunately... (3, Funny)

animus9 (765786) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560636)

Fortunately George W. Still can't find Canada on the map (sssh! let's keep it that way), so any information acquired that violates our privacy will probably be useless to them. They might as well get a SETI client and mine through some of that data. I can see it right now:

"Your excellence, it appears that an evil race of aliens are planning to attack us -- also, they have a whole bunch of oil. Good thing we already have PATRIOT ACT VIII drafted up."

Solution to the Patriot ac t... (1)

gwn (594936) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560667)

The solution is suggested in the article, have everything done in Canadian facilities with strict controls over the data. The next step would be to make it a contract condition that companies doing work with this data must not have any presence in the US, directly or indirectly, or any jurisdiction that supports the patriot act. This has the benefit to Canadian companies to be somewhat protectionist. In case some of you haven't noticed US trans-national corporations are buying up Canadian businesses at an alarming rate. US citizens are also investing in Canadian properties too. Seems they look at us as the safe place to invest their money. After all didn't most of them put Canadian flags on their coats and backpacks when they went travelling during College? Sorry I digressed a bit from the topic... Summary, Canadians really do like and wish the best for the American people, but sometimes we find it hard to like your Governments policies, both internal and external. Most of us find it hard to believe that you allowed so many of your hard won civil rights to be stripped away with so little discussion and thought, the Partiot Act. ... God bless and save us all...

Re:Solution to the Patriot ac t... (1)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560762)

Summary, Canadians really do like and wish the best for the American people, but sometimes we find it hard to like your Governments policies, both internal and external.

No need to apologize for that. The more intelligent of us down here don't like 'em all that much either!

Privacy Details (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560668)

If anyone is interested, the Canadian Privacy Commissioner's website can be found here: http://www.privcom.gc.ca/index_e.asp [privcom.gc.ca] The privacy laws here generally fall under PIPEDA - Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act. Passed just a few years ago, it has made it very easy for the individual to take the upper hand in privacy disputes with corporations as the act greatly favours the little guy.

First redneck republican post (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560669)

Fuck those Canadians, they're dangerous because they don't share our values and therefore love terrorism. Why, did you know that they don't even hate faggots and Muslims!? I know, it's outrageous ...

well (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560698)

tough shit

Well spoken... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560758)

...and do you wonder why the coalition of the willing includes such major military world powers as ... Eritrea, Ethiopia, Uganda, Rwanda, Angola, El Salvador, Colombia, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Honduras, Tonga, Micronesia, Solomon Islands, Mongolia, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Philippines, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Georgia, Albania, Macedonia, Romania, Bulgaria, Turkey, Croatia , Slovenia, Ukraine, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia , Hungary, Estonia , Latvia , Lithuania , Spain, Portugal Denmark, Netherlands, Iceland, Italy

Its better in Europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560720)

In Belgium we have an eID card that contains all your personal details, surfing habits and credit card transactions. If you want to be allowed to use internet this then plugs into MSN and all your details are sent to Microsoft who then send it to Bush in America. This is legal under European rules. It is good for everyone. It stops all terrorists and makes the world safer. Also it cost each citizen 20,000 Euros. if you don't pay you go to prison. We sacrifice all privacy to fight for war on terror. Also EU governemnt soon outlaw Linux and make Microsoft manditory. It is safer OS anyway and better that everyone use the same thing. Next year if you use Linux you go to prison. You have to have special licence to run other Unix or Mac. This is only for businesses and cost 750,000 Euros a year.

Don't Do Business With Them (4, Interesting)

MoThugz (560556) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560728)

Apparently the FBI currently has the right, through Patriot, to search documents which may contain Canadian information sent to US firms carrying out work under contract.


Then just don't do business with those firms.

Let your money do the talking... apparently politicians listen more to corporations than individuals (especially the average /. geek).

RTFA, besides this was going on before Patriot Act (3, Informative)

will_die (586523) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560740)

The main thing they are complaining about is that an American company could be ordered by a US court to supply info that they owned and was stored in Canada and that a US company that was storing infomation for a Canadian company could also be ordered by a court to provide infomation on a person.
This is no different then was going on before the patriot act, so no big change, it just looks better to the mass idiots if include the words US Patriot act in the headlines.

Everyone (3, Insightful)

Turn-X Alphonse (789240) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560754)

I think this applies to everyone and we should all be worried. With the US Mentality of "your with us or against us!" you HAVE to support them. even if you want them all to fuck off and die, you can't say it out loud and sleep soundly at night. after starting two wars (I'm from the UK, so yes we helped...) and having a guy with more self confidence then sense in charge I'd rather keep my anti-yank opinions away from him in the political forum.

Maybe someone should teach Bush that there isn't only "us" and "them". Because mentality like that slowly chips away at "us" untill everyone is "them" and you're in a padded room going "THE VOICES TELL ME THEY ARE GOING TO BOMB US! THEY WILL BOMB US AND WE MUST GET THEM FIRST! IF WE DONT WE'LL ALL DIE! QUICK NUKE THEM ALL!"

Do Canadians have dictionaries? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11560780)

http://www.m-w.com

Main Entry: weary
Pronunciation: 'wir-E
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English wery, from Old English wErig; akin to Old High German wuorag intoxicated and perhaps to Greek aOros sleep
1 : exhausted in strength, endurance, vigor, or freshness
2 : expressing or characteristic of weariness
3 : having one's patience, tolerance, or pleasure exhausted -- used with of

Main Entry: wary
Pronunciation: 'war-E, 'wer-
Function: adjective
Etymology: 1ware, from Middle English war, ware, from Old English wær careful, aware, wary; akin to Old High German giwar aware, attentive, Latin vereri to fear, Greek horan to see
: marked by keen caution, cunning, and watchful prudence especially in detecting and escaping danger

Weary eh? (1)

diogenes57 (43063) | more than 9 years ago | (#11560794)

We're all getting a little tired of hearing about that bit of legislation.
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