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Are Optional Ads Worth The Trouble?

Zonk posted more than 6 years ago | from the opt-in-opt-out-do-a-dance-all-about dept.

Privacy 245

azuredrake writes "NCSoft's City of Heroes has just announced that in-game ads are being added to the game, provided by an advertising firm Double Fusion. However, unlike in many games, the ads being brought to CoH have been defined as 'always optional'. The publishers see the ads as a purely additional revenue stream, not as something that will ever allow advertisers to affect game content. Commentary is available at Gamasutra. Is making advertisement volunteer-based a viable way to get around cynicism? The tone of these ads seems to be 'check them out to help the game'. Are there any sites or services in which you'd voluntarily look at ads to lend a hand? "

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Of course! (3, Insightful)

PoeticExplosion (943918) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978000)

If the ads are low-key, then they don't really bother me. So why shouldn't I help a company I like make a little extra money?

Except... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978112)

If the ads are low key, that means they won't grab eyeballs, and thus won't generate click-thrus.

Years ago I used to specifically un-adblock specific sites I wanted to support, but at this point I'm so sick of advertising that I go out of my way AVOID buying shit from companies whose ads I inadvertantly see.

Re:Except... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978140)

This is me again...and despite my tirade against advertising above, I realized that I recently opted into some advertising. Sigma Lens Company published two booklets of photos taken with their lenses and they're available for free to anyone who requests them. That's advertising, certainly, but it's advertising with a value of its own. I got to see some really nice pictures and get an idea of what their lenses (and the foveon image sensor) are capable of.

If you make the advertising worth-while--with emphasis on the WORTH--I don't really have a problem with it. Otherwise, fuck off.

Re:Except... (3, Insightful)

nahdude812 (88157) | more than 6 years ago | (#22979182)

Presumably in-game ads like this aren't going to measure performance by click rates, since clicking would take you out of the game. They may measure it by camera focus time (ie, if the ad occupies at least 25% of the screen for 10 or more seconds).

I echo the GP sentiment. If the game I enjoy is having financial trouble, my reading ads contributes to their ability to remain in business, which in turn contributes to my ability to continue to play. I would stay opted in for as long as the ads were not obnoxious. It would not take many annoying ads for me to opt out though, and if opting out was no longer an option, it would not take many annoying ads to make me cancel my subscription.

Re:Of course! (5, Insightful)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978176)

because you're already paid for the client AND for a monthly subscription? I mean if it was something like Guild Wars, where it was free...

Re:Of course! (5, Insightful)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978250)

Buying the game and paying the monthly fee means you get to play the game. That's it. It doesn't give you anything beyond that. You don't own part of the company because you pay a monthly fee, you don't get to break the rules whenever you want because you pay a monthly fee, and you don't get to decide what the company does to bring in extra revenue because you pay a monthly fee.

If you find it annoying, opt out.

Re:Of course! (1)

phreakincool (975248) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978280)

You're absolutely right. And if I and most of my regular in-game buds decide to switch to WoW, because they don't have in-game ads...

Re:Of course! (2)

phreakincool (975248) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978398)

I swear to god...If I click open a mission door and I'm taken to some website for one of these ads...its over.

Make the players do it (3, Funny)

SL Baur (19540) | more than 6 years ago | (#22979082)

I think it would make a fun daily quest to have one of them be to just fly around Shattrath carrying an ad banner behind you.

That would be the best of both worlds. Don't look up if you don't like in-game ads and if you don't care, do the daily.

I suppose for this to really work, it would have to be possible for both Alliance and Horde to shoot you down while you're advertising. That sounds like fun, actually.

Re:Of course! (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978312)

Or more realistically, not play CoH/CoV.

Which is why I don't own a 360.

Re:Of course! (3, Insightful)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978332)

Yeah, but if I quit a MMORPG every time they did some little thing that annoyed me, I wouldn't have played WoW for three years. And that's what this is. A little thing. There are already billboards and signs in CoH/CoV. And honestly, unless you're going by specific areas repeatedly, or flying or super-leaping all the time, you're probably not going to notice most of the billboards and signs right now. And since the plans are to put real ads only where the billboards and signs currently exist, and not plaster them over every wall, it still won't be a huge deal. (mind you, I could see them expanding it a bit to have real movie posters outside the movie theaters...)

Re:Of course! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978330)

You are missing the point to a monumental extent. The customer does decide indirectly how the company brings in extra revenue. Annoy the customers, the customers leave; no more subscription revenue or advertising revenue.

Buying the game and paying a monthly subscription does not get you a stake in the company, but it does make you a stakeholder in that company's future. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the concept of customer base. If you irritate your customers to the point they "opt out" of subscribing completely then you're completely screwed. You are getting confused between the individual customer and the generic "customer".

Life must be very simply and very dull in your world.

Re:Of course! (3, Insightful)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978354)

And you're missing the point that the advertising in the game will be opt-out. And if it's like every other graphical setting in the game, it's going to be something you click once and you choose your viewing settings. We're hardly talking about some sort of burden requiring a notarized letter to the NCSoft headquarters indicating your desire to opt out of the advertising.

And let's face it... NCSoft (and Cryptic before they sold their interest in the game to NCSoft) has dealt with the hordes of upset customers before, with the whole flak over ED and the GDN (if you don't know what those are, they were nerfs in the game that affected just about every character), and I'm willing to bet that they'll lose less customers over the advertising thing then they did over ED/GDN.

I swear, people here are acting like putting real-life ads in the game requires squeezing blood out of babies or something.

Re:Of course! (1)

Macthorpe (960048) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978656)

I actually liked ED... which puts me in a very silent minority, apparently.

Still, as I said below, NCSoft have earned my trust (more so now Emmert has gone) so I'll be turning them on.

Re:Of course! (1)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978784)

I think the big problem Jack Emmert had was that while he may have had these wonderful (or maybe not so wonderful, depending on your point of view) bold plans for CoH/CoV, he was horrible at communicating them to the players.

Re:Of course! (1)

Macthorpe (960048) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978848)

I much prefer the way the game is going now he's gone - plus, the interviews he's done since leaving have been, how shall we say, scathing about CoH. I assume it's a PR trick to get people to play Champions when it comes out, because most of what he's said has been very sparse with the truth.

I had some respect for him when he was in charge of CoH, but that has evaporated with his conduct now he's not.

Re:Of course! (1)

Alcoholic Synonymous (990318) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978826)

It's a thing called ethics. Remember that word, because it means something everywhere but in the world of money.

But honestly, this is no different than when I call my phone company and they try to upsell me services I don't want or need. Or the credit card company that wants me to take unemployment insurance and credit monitoring services. The result from me (and people like me) will be the same, "I pay you enough already, shut the fuck up and leave me alone."

(Tip: When a credit card company offers you unemployment insurance, tell them "I am unemployed right now, so I can really use that. Sign me up!")

Re:Of course! (5, Insightful)

asuffield (111848) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978880)

I swear, people here are acting like putting real-life ads in the game requires squeezing blood out of babies or something.


The thing is that even if half the players filter out the ads, even if no real game content is changed, even if it's just a few changed textures... the company is now beholden to two masters: the players and the advertisers. The advertising companies are going to be saying to them: "We want you to promote X, Y, and Z, and we're going to pull our advertising unless you agree with us on political point Q". We've seen it so many times before, because the advertisers have a much louder and more focussed message, so they usually get what they want. The company goes along with them because they don't really care about any of those things - they just want the money so they can focus on their game - and then you have one more voice supporting the big media companies, throwing their weight behind anti-user movements like Sonny Bono and the DMCA.

Note that none of this is going to happen today. Putting the ads into the game is free. It's 12 months down the line, when all the noise has died down, that the advertising companies come back and say "Now... you've worked all that money into your budget, you depend on it... let's talk about what you're going to do for us". Keeping the ads is far from free.

Re:Of course! (4, Insightful)

blahplusplus (757119) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978416)

"Buying the game and paying the monthly fee means you get to play the game. That's it"

The whole 'liscensing' and 'software as a service' is quite a scam anyway, if I'm paying for a product I don't want to see ads. I'd like to have some time and place where I do not have ads in my face. Games is one of the few mediums that ads have not yet penetrated. We see enough ads in our daily lives, on the way to/from wherever, etc, etc?

If I'm voting for a product with my dollars and I am a customer they better damn well listen, I think the optional ads is a good thing in that those of us who don't want to have it shoved down our throat get to opt out of it but I know I'm not the only one tired of being haggled for cash 24/7.

Re:Of course! (0, Troll)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978434)

So, did you miss the whole "Opt out" part, or what?

Re:Of course! (1)

The Bender (801382) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978606)

if I'm paying for a product I don't want to see ads.
So you don't read magazines or newspapers then? Or watch the TV? Or use MS software (OK, this being Slashdot, that one's actually possible)?

This has been going on for decades, and time has proven that what you want doesn't really matter.

Re:Of course! (1)

ShieldW0lf (601553) | more than 6 years ago | (#22979036)

You would be amazed how clearheaded and how much happier you become when you remove these things like magazines, newspapers, commercial driven television from your life. It really isn't particularly hard these days. Between adblocking the news sites and downloading shows commercial free three seasons at a time, you don't need to expose yourself to them at all.

It's amazing how intolerable commercial interruptions become once you get away from them for a while. Personally, I like to punish advertisers who push their ads into my personal space by boycotting them forever.

Re:Of course! (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | more than 6 years ago | (#22979120)

Downloading TV seasons for free, and using adblock are just kind of going around the advertising. You really should be boycotting the shows who use advertisers to support their programs. Or only visit sites without ads on them. The advertisers wouldn't be a problem if the publishers of magazines, tv shows, and web sites didn't ask for their ads, or outright refused them. Don't blame the advertisers, They are just providing what the content producers ask for.

Re:Of course! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978560)

Let's see how long they are "opt-out". Give it 6 months, the "opt out" will be quietly dropped and the adverts will remain.

Re:Of course! (1)

MoriaOrc (822758) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978402)

Nitpick: Guild Wars isn't free.
The cost of the game is paid up-front as the cost of an access key (with optional out-of-date installer and manual if you buy it in a brick & mortar store). To support the ongoing cost of maintaining the servers (as well as keep putting bread on the table), they released additional "chapters" which are self-contained and similar in size to the original. Not free, just different.

More on topic, the "metropolitan/urban center" environment City of Heroes seems like an environment where bulletin boards can be made unobtrusive, more a part of the natural landscape. And as long as it's optional, then it isn't so bad.

Also, shouldn't this be in Games instead of YRO?

Re:Of course! (1)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978694)

To support the ongoing cost of maintaining the servers (as well as keep putting bread on the table), they released additional "chapters" which are self-contained and similar in size to the original. Not free, just different.
The GW chapters are usually called "expansions" in the traditional MMO funding though. And yes, even if you bought WOW, you still have to buy its expansions for the extra dungeons.

Re:Of course! (1)

SanityInAnarchy (655584) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978224)

That's most of what I want out of ads, actually. Right now, I adblock most flash and most animated gifs. Static images and text ads can stay.

I do occasionally click on ads, low-key or not -- and I do often read them -- but if you piss me off, you are decreasing your chances of getting me as a customer.

Well, it depends (5, Insightful)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978306)

Well, it depends.

COH happens in a modern day metropolis. Ads and billboards aren't out of place. You kinda expect them there.

In fact, the game already _had_ billboards and posters from day 1, except they were mildly funny parodies instead of actual ads. For example stuff like ads for lawyers getting the villains out of jail after your superhero toon arrests them, or for some fictional in-game companies like Crey Industries, etc.

Replacing an ad for Crey with an ad for Microsoft, wouldn't seem out of place at all. (And doubly so for a lot of us nerds, since the Crey are a major supervillain group in the game;)

Or I wouldn't be even give it a second thought if there was a McDonald's in Galaxy City. I mean they already have fictional restaurants there, with funny names like "El Super Mexicano."

The same can't be said for a lot of other settings and genres, though. E.g., it would feel awfully weird to have billboards for IBM and Coca Cola along the road to Darnassus in WOW.

And that's really what I'm fearing. That it might re-sort genres and settings according to how fit they are for ads.

Remember that we already _had_ such an effect. Adventure games were still popular games, and that market was actually _growing_ when everyone dropped them like a hot potato in the 90's. Why? Because making a simplistic FPS was _much_ cheaper. Even if you sold less copies than an adventure, you'd still make more profit.

I can see "games fit for ads" vs "games where ads look out of place" repeating that history.

Adventures eventually made a comeback, because, basically, people eventually came to expect the same level of scripting and animations in a FPS as in an adventure. So the price difference vanished.

The same might never happen in the case of "games fit for ads" vs "games where ads look out of place." Already all else is equal. Only one of them can get more money. Short of advertisers pulling out, it stays that way.

So I fear that we _might_ slide towards every game happening in a city, or a race-track, or along of big billboard-overdosed highway. And that doesn't sound too great.

Re:Well, it depends (1)

Paaskonijn (1220996) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978492)

In fact, the game already _had_ billboards and posters from day 1, except they were mildly funny parodies instead of actual ads.

I mean they already have fictional restaurants there, with funny names like "El Super Mexicano."
Isn't one of City of Heroes selling points its (admittedly tacky) humour? The way it doesn't take itself too seriously? Replace all the fictional billboards and restaurants with real world ones, and away goes the funny.

I smell a Business model (4, Insightful)

DrYak (748999) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978960)

Replace all the fictional billboards and restaurants with real world ones, and away goes the funny.


Unless we see small design/PR firms emerging, whose proposed service is to make custom ads that fit the game's world atmosphere.

Say that McDonalds want to put an add into COH. Instead of copy pasting some (dull) real life add that won't work in the general atmosphere of the game, they hire such a design company which will create a humorous and twisted variation, that will make the player laugh. Thus fitting better in the global game atmosphere AND attracting more eyeballs to the add (because they are genuinely fun to watch).

Same reflection could be done for fantasy oriented games. A copy-pasted Coke add will just suck. A redesigned message on a scroll, touting the virtue of "ye olde Coke's potion of +1 awakeness. (As of today with even less "-1 charisma" calories)" together with a painting of some troll posing in a similar way as the pretty models on the real-life ads, will sound funny.

In fact during the era when sharewares where big in the 90s, there were a lot of companies pulling similar parodies of modern product into out-of place environment (fantasy, etc.), just for the fun of it. Now just imagine the money they could have earned if, instead of changing the name to avoid trademark infringements, they actually used the real names with the blessing of the companies parodied ?

What I want to see (3, Funny)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978006)

Is if any advertisers end up being specific to hero-side or villain-side.

Microsoft as a loyal supporter of Lord Recluse, perhaps?

Are Ads really non optional? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978010)

Magazines? When you read a magazine and you find an Ad page, you Choose if you will read that page or skip it. Also on TV, since you can change the channel if you don't want to see an Ad.

Doesn't offend me when it is on COH. (5, Insightful)

Sterrance (1257342) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978012)

A game that has modern day cities in it can appropriately have advertisements on it, just like most racing games now a days. In someways it helps because it makes it feel like a real city. Now if I started seeing signs for Vitamin Water on World of Warcraft, that is when I get offended.

Re:Doesn't offend me when it is on COH. (3, Insightful)

kemushi88 (1156073) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978110)

I think the parent makes an important point.

The ads shouldn't ruin the atmosphere of the game. As long as they seem appropriate wherever they appear, then I believe it is acceptable. The placement of ads in games should mimic the placement of ads in the real world.

Re:Doesn't offend me when it is on COH. (1)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978646)

Yes, using real-world ads and real-world products placed realistically would be, well, realistic, and would therefore make games more immersive. But that is very unlikely to happen.

See, in a real-life city, you have ads for Pepsi and Coke, for McDonald's and Burger King, etc. But in a game, the first company to get in will insist that the ads are exclusively for their own product; that every burger bar in the entire city be a McDonald's, that every single drinks dispenser in the entire game world dispense only Coca-Cola.

That's not realistic or unobtrusive at all.

Wikipedia (2, Informative)

MinuteElectron (1179725) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978014)

When advertisments on Wikipedia were first suggested (to help take the pressure off the funds crisis they were seen as in at the time) voluntary enrollment was suggested. It never got enough support, however. It was a reasonable idea since it is, in some respects, insulting to ask for donations when you could be tapping in to such a large revenue source (even with voluntary enrollment the money generated would be huge).

Re:Wikipedia (2, Insightful)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978114)

The problem with ads is that they lead ot censorship, who is going to risk upsetting the people who pay a large portion of their running costs?

~Dan

Re:Wikipedia (3, Insightful)

Allicorn (175921) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978598)

The intended purpose of advertising is to influence the viewer's opinion, to create bias towards specific brands or products regardless of whether there be any basis in fact for such a bias.

The intended purpose of Wikipedia is to inform without opinion, without bias. (hey, I DID say "intended"!). To expose facts alone, un-colored by opinion.

To me it seems that this makes advertising on Wikipedia innappropriate.

Alli

Ads could be fine if done well (3, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978016)

After all, in many games there are places where ads would be appropriate. For example if you have a TV, rather than just having the TV displaying some image loop, it could display ads. Wouldn't be that different from a real TV.

To work though they have to be unobtrusive. They have to be something that is just a part of the environment, and in a natural way. If they get in the way, then it is not good. That's the real problem is that advertisers seem to think that ads need to be more in your face, stop you from what you are doing to work. Well that isn't acceptable. I will not play a game where I have to sit through an ad to log in.

Re:Ads could be fine if done well (1)

Znork (31774) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978592)

After all, in many games there are places where ads would be appropriate.

Many sites too. How about... price comparison sites? That would be both relevant and appropriate, and, I think, highly effective as the viewers are commonly those considering an imminent purchase. In fact, I sometimes wonder why some segments even bother advertising elsewhere.

Of course, it also requires the product and price to be competitive, so maybe that's why.

Re:Ads could be fine if done well (1)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978654)

For example if you have a TV, rather than just having the TV displaying some image loop, it could display ads. Wouldn't be that different from a real TV.
You poor suffering American. In Britain you can watch TV all day and never see a single commercial...

Re:Ads could be fine if done well (1)

Macthorpe (960048) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978734)

Unless you want to watch something other than the BBC, and who would want to do that? :P

Delusions.. (4, Insightful)

fortunato (106228) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978018)

I think this is pretty easy to predict. Basically, a significant percentage of people will "opt-out". Enough so that they will eventually remove the opt-out choice. At which point, a critical mass of people will be miffed enough that they will just cancel membership. And their net revenue will be a significant percentage less than it is right now before they introduced this ridiculous scheme.

I mean seriously. If they even have to consider alternate revenue streams that are so obviously risky, it pretty much is the writing on the wall for the game, is it not?

But then again, I know people in marketing that are under the complete and utter idiotic delusion that people LIKE and WANT advertising. Self delusion never fails to amaze me.

Re:Delusions.. (3, Interesting)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978120)

I don't know about that. I mean, you're right in that a significant percentage will opt-out. I'm probably going to opt-in, at least at first, and if the advertising doesn't significantly degrade my playing experience (i.e. cause tons of lag), then I'll probably leave it on, if for no other reason that it would be nice to see something other then the same couple dozen or so current billboards in CoH/CoV. But I can't see them changing the ads to always being on, if for no other reason then the range of graphics settings you can play the game in, where the lowest settings would probably make the ads all but unreadable unless right on top of them. (Which is, alas, the setting I have to run on whenever there's a Rikti raid...)

And apparently, NCSoft is making enough money on the current monthly fees and game sales where they are not considering consolidating servers that are generally low population or slowing the release of regular updates of new material. (Issue 12 is probably going to be about in a couple of months or less, for example.)

Re:Delusions.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978668)

if the advertising doesn't significantly degrade my playing experience (i.e. cause tons of lag)

You honestly believe that increased lag is the only possible degradation of playing experience?

Most computer games are escapism. If I want realistic, I find reality works well. I don't want to be subjected to the same endless seas of advertrash that litter television, the WWW, public spaces etc.

Sure it's opt-in now. Wait until NCSoft gets used to the extra cash, or hits a rough patch. Watch opt-in disappear.

Re:Delusions.. (1)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978818)

From my point of view, yes, lag is the big one.

Yes, it is escapism. But my escapism at my computer also has sounds of traffic from outside, the occassional phone call from work, and since I'm not some basement-dwelling, sun-shunning pasty geek with no life, I don't play for 22 hours straight and end up thinking I really can fly or shoot energy beams from my eyes.

As shocking as it may seem, my desires from a game are not the same as your desires from a game, and not the same as anyone else's. If ads for McD's or Coke or whatever don't make the game run slower for me, then I don't care if they're in the game at all or not. Hell, I'd actually like to see movie posters for upcoming movies in the game. Is that weird of me? Probably. But again, as long as the game doesn't significantly slow down for me, it's not a big deal.

Shadowbane (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978022)

Shadowbane (http://chronicle.ubi.com/ [ubi.com] ), a fantasy based MMORPG, is completely ad-revenue driven. Plagued by poor performance and crash bugs for many years, they've had an uphill battle to win back players (a real shame, as I often refer to SB as "the best piece of crap I've ever played"). Just this month they went through a series of fixes, including a complete refresh of the worlds and players (easier to do when you can play free). It should be an interesting experiment to see if they can maintain revenue based solely on third party financing, but in this (US) economy, it is hard to beat maintaining your gaming fix without grabbing your wallet! Still, one has to wonder how much of a voice the player base has now that they can no longer "vote with their wallet."

Re:Shadowbane (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978710)

Vote with your wallet? See SWG for an example of how much of a failure doing that really can be.

Yes, with a however (4, Insightful)

RenHoek (101570) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978030)

I've white listed a number of sites on adblock for a while that I felt like supporting. However it meant white listing well known ad servers, so that meant I was seeing them on other sites as well. I've tried surfing without any ad blocking for a while, but that's not a workable solution. I'd be reading some article on a site with a BLINK BLINK FLASH MOVE MOVE ad besides it. It doesn't make for an easy read.

Never mind the sites that *shouts* SUDDENLY ADD SOUND to a page while you're quietly trying to read an article at work.

In the end, I've gone back to just adblocking the hell out of everything, I've tried, and some sites are good with it, but the majority of other sites ruin it for those that try to play nice.

We need, Google to start a competitor to Paypal, so I can donate some small amounts of money to the sites I like. (I don't use Paypal, because they're a bunch of crooks)

Re:Yes, with a however (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978318)

Something like Google Checkout?

Re:Yes, with a however (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978334)

"However it meant white listing well known ad servers, so that meant I was seeing them on other sites as well."

Umm, no it doesn't; e.g. you can whitelist a site using Adsense in Adblock Plus and still not see Google ads on any other site.

Re:Yes, with a however (3, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978444)

We need, Google to start a competitor to Paypal, so I can donate some small amounts of money to the sites I like. (I don't use Paypal, because they're a bunch of crooks)

Yes lets all suckle at the google teat until we're so dependant on them the microsoft monopoly will seem like a pathetic joke. Lets give them our documents, our email, lets let them gather every detail they can about our lives, lets let them take a picture of our house... oh I know... they should totally handle our money too!

I agree paypal needs some decent competition, but suggesting it be handled by google is as stupid as suggesting it be handled by microsoft. Or maybe not, at least with microsoft I don't have to worry about my transaction history being added to one of the largest surveillance networks on the planet.

Thanks, but no thanks.

new adblock for firefox beta5 (3, Informative)

blackest_k (761565) | more than 6 years ago | (#22979038)

http://adblockplus.org/devbuilds/ [adblockplus.org]

rather annoyingly firefox beta5 isn't compatible with the mainstream release of adblock however the development build here works fine.

All i need now is a method to remove the gray tramlines running down the page on slashdot. the nesting soon reduces me to 20% width comment 20% side bar 60% tram line. god knows what mobile users get.

From another forum (0)

FoolsGold (1139759) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978034)

Someone else responded to this in a rather clear and efficient way:

YOU ALREADY HAVE TO PAY A FUCKING MONTHLY FEE!

Re:From another forum (1)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978076)

And your point is?

A monthly fee is to access and play the game. It doesn't mean that I can stomp my feet and get my way on everything. I can't demand to play a Tanker/Defender/Scrapper triple Archtype with 25 extra powers that no-one else gets, and it damn sure doesn't mean I get a say in the business decisions that the company makes.

Re:From another forum (1)

TitusC3v5 (608284) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978116)

His point is that as paying customers, we DO ultimately decide the direction of these things. If they suddenly lose 40% of their subscribers due to this, you can bet they'll be kicking DV to the curb faster than you can say Crey Biotech.

That being said, I'll see how this plays out. If you RTFA, the ads as shown really aren't obtrusive at all, and contribute to the feel of the game in the same way that the current fake ads do.

Re:From another forum (1)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978142)

Actually, I did read the article. I also post on the CoH forums, where this was first brought to my attention last week, and I play the game (not right this second because I'm stuck at work). His point was "WAAAAH! WE PAYS A FEE! WE SHOULD ALWAYS GET WHAT WE WANT!" which isn't true, and I can't recall an MMORPG where it ever has been.

Yeah, you can vote with your feet. That's the extent of your control over the direction of the game. And I seriously doubt this is going to cause as big a turmoil or exodus as ED or the GDN.

Re:From another forum (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978376)

The customer is always right.

Re:From another forum (3, Insightful)

sssssss27 (1117705) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978162)

Someone else responded to this in a rather clear and efficient way:

YOU ALREADY HAVE TO PAY A FUCKING MONTHLY FEE!


And isn't that why the ads are optional?? To me this is kind of like DVDs that don't force you to watch previews from other movies but gives you the option to under the Extras menu. You paid for the DVD so it shouldn't interfere with your movie experience but I see no harm is just having an option. If the ads are targeted well enough they might even be beneficial to you as well. Those previews of other movies on the DVD have led me to find other movies I've liked.

Helping realism! (2, Insightful)

arthurh3535 (447288) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978040)

One of the things that some people have noted, that in a modern city setting having 'real advertisements' will actually improve immersion. As the developers have stated, it is an additional and optional revenue stream that will go to development.

They actually had a recent costume/emote pack for Valentine's Day with wedding themed costumes. I bought it for me and a friend... and found out that all of those purchases later that it advanced the addition of the new Villain Epic Archetype by three or four months.

So I'll be leaving this on and probably actually checking out the advertisements occasionally to help out NCSoft. I like my game being improved even faster.

Re:Helping realism! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978236)

Right on. What's a sports video game without appropriate ads? A car race without Penzoil and Valvoline banners? A baseball game without Viagra targets on the fences, and some kind of homeowner's insurance? Not likely!

Re:Helping realism! (1)

toriver (11308) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978516)

Sort of. However, it depends on context: I used the free, ad-supported client for Anarchy Online, and really felt that 30,000 years into the future, people would be very unlikely to drink Sprite Zero or listen to Mötley Crüe - which were advertising in the game at the time...

(Using old form because the new, fancy, Ajaxy form does not understand UTF-8, which this does. Fix plz kthx bye.)

Games as art (2, Interesting)

kaos07 (1113443) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978056)

The idea of putting advertising in games, regardless of whether it's optional or not is an interesting one. It comes back to the question of motivation. If a studio designs a game, we assume they (programmers, artists, texturers etc.) are doing it because a) they enjoy it and b) they believe they're creating a cultural icon made up of lots of different artistic elements like sound, visuals and animation.

Now I think it's fairly accepted that anything that "Sells out" (ie. uses the artistic medium purely for profit) isn't really regarded as art. These days that may seem less the case and I bet you're all waiting to cite examples of particular genres of music and film which contain product placement, but in my opinion and I think the opinion of many of those who both create and appreciate true art (Whether it be film, music, paintings, whatever) those particular examples fail to be art and end up being advertisements in themselves.

I think that placing ads in the artistic medium of videogames negates the inherent artistic nature of them, as concern grows over whether the creators of the game were making it because of the above reason or purely to make money.

Then again maybe I'm just sick of seeing the same bunch of #%@&head corporations ripping off their workers, consumers and the environment and infiltrating every aspect of our lives. Gaming should be a form of escapism. It's hard to escape our intense, competitive, profit driven world when there's Coca Cola and Microsoft billboards in my supposedly "alternate" universe.

Re:Games as art (1)

FlyByPC (841016) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978168)

The idea of putting advertising in games, regardless of whether it's optional or not is an interesting one. It comes back to the question of motivation. If a studio designs a game, we assume they (programmers, artists, texturers etc.) are doing it because a) they enjoy it and b) they believe they're creating a cultural icon made up of lots of different artistic elements like sound, visuals and animation.

Now I think it's fairly accepted that anything that "Sells out" (ie. uses the artistic medium purely for profit) isn't really regarded as art. These days that may seem less the case and I bet you're all waiting to cite examples of particular genres of music and film which contain product placement, but in my opinion and I think the opinion of many of those who both create and appreciate true art (Whether it be film, music, paintings, whatever) those particular examples fail to be art and end up being advertisements in themselves.

I think that placing ads in the artistic medium of videogames negates the inherent artistic nature of them, as concern grows over whether the creators of the game were making it because of the above reason or purely to make money.

Then again maybe I'm just sick of seeing the same bunch of #%@&head corporations ripping off their workers, consumers and the environment and infiltrating every aspect of our lives. Gaming should be a form of escapism. It's hard to escape our intense, competitive, profit driven world when there's Coca Cola and Microsoft billboards in my supposedly "alternate" universe.



I guess it depends on how it's done. Microsoft ads in Oblivion would be illusion-shattering -- but what about ads for game add-ons, done as posters and such, in an in-game style? ("Wizard's castle for sale -- see Gro-dalk the realty agent in the Market District...") You could speak to the agent if you want, get a description of the add-on, then agree (or not) to receive an email with the purchase details.

(You could even confirm in-game if you were set up to do this when you registered.)

Re:Games as art (1)

Kierthos (225954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978264)

I expect most of the ads will be for high-caffeine sodas and energy drinks. (Although I've never seen the one mentioned in the first link.) I mean, this is a gamer market....

No, I wouldn't (4, Insightful)

Rix (54095) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978072)

But that's just me, I loathe advertising in any form. I'm never a good target for it.

Optional advertising is a great idea; it filters out the people that will be offended by it (and who will attribute that offence both to the advertising venue and the advertiser). Everyone wins, the venue doesn't offend it's patrons, the advertiser only gets it's message out to receptive listeners, and people aren't offended.

A nothing-to-lose proposition (3, Insightful)

Stephen Samuel (106962) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978080)

Unless the process of inserting the ad capability into the game threatens to cost more than the ads will pay, I see it as something of a no-loss proposition for the games maker. If a player doesn't mind, then you've got an extra revenue stream ... and if they do then they can just turn it off. It's something kinda hard to knock from my (somewhat cynical) point of view.

5p4m w0rDz (-1, Offtopic)

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Optional? The camel sticks its nose into the tent (5, Insightful)

Whuffo (1043790) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978134)

After all these years of selling their games to retail customers for a healthy sum, game developers are no longer happy with the profit level. You can understand their problem; that CD and cardboard box (with some printed ads included) costs so much that there's just nothing left from that $40.

So now they'll give in-game advertising a try. It's optional, you know - for now. If this proves to be something that brings in additional revenue the game developers will make it mandatory without a second thought.

It's just a small step past selling their customer lists to marketing firms. You didn't think that registration was so they could send you a birthday card, did you?

Re:Optional? The camel sticks its nose into the te (3, Interesting)

vic.tz (1000138) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978276)

It depends on the publisher, I suppose, but in-game ads aren't all greedy. To make a high quality MMORPG (like CoH) these days, a developer will need to spend millions of dollars over a period of 3-4 years. That's a hard sell to investors. And these game companies aren't out to make just one game.

NCSoft publishes a lot of good, unique games, and if in-game ads will help them publish more good games, I don't have a problem with it.

Re:Optional? The camel sticks its nose into the te (1)

Splab (574204) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978892)

I (finally) stopped playing counterstrike after Valve put in adds - it was just for their own games, but it pissed me off that after the money they made with the game they decided to forced a (potential) revenue stream down my throat. (No you can't opt out, servers are forced to run newest version - so are you - and NO! I shouldn't be glad they still support the game since they haven't fixed a bug for years, only added adds)

The second I see an add inside a game I play I stop playing, I can't stand adds.

Re:Optional? The camel sticks its nose into the te (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978386)

This point is so true. Livejournal is a good example. For years their management said there would never be ads on the site, period. Then came optional ad-supported accounts, with slightly more features than fully free accounts. Now recently the site has been sold and the new management has done away with non-ad supported free accounts for new registrations, so even paying users have to see ads when they look at these users' entries.

Ads were once intentionally absent, then crept their way in under the guise of "user choice", and now they're mandatory. It wouldn't surprise me to see it happen again.

Useful ads? (3, Insightful)

FlyByPC (841016) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978148)

In general, if ads are useful, targeted, and reasonably unobtrusive, I welcome them as a source of information.

For instance, if a site wants to advertise (based on a search for robotics-related documents) that they have a good deal on stepper motors, great. I might well click through and find something I'd like. Amazon does a great job with this as far as books go -- their recommendations of what else I'd like often come up with some really cool suggestions.

What I don't want to see are ads for the general public (or even the general gamer public). Even if such a beast as a typical gamer exists, it ain't me. My taste in ads is somewhat like my taste in music -- I don't expect anyone else to like the exact mix I do (and most people's tastes will be pretty different. I admit I'm weird.)

First step (2, Insightful)

LS (57954) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978174)

New and unproven business models often start out as "free" or "optional". Then when the users get somewhat used to it, the "optional" aspect seems to disappear. This is a slippery slope folks.

Re:First step (1)

Macthorpe (960048) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978644)

I would agree with you, but as a long-time CoH player I can tell you than NCSoft NorCal (who used to be part of Cryptic Studios) have a habit of actually listening to the community, more so than any other MMO that I've played. Where WoW admins shout "Working as Intended" and EVE admins scam the game for money, you can approach CoH admins and ask them for something and they'll tell you if they can do it and when.

NCSoft have earned my trust on this one, and I'll be turning the ads on.

Not in a paid for product (1)

iamacat (583406) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978182)

Games are supposed to be set in an alternative reality and real-world ads damage the illusion badly. If the game is free, I can always stop playing if ads bother me too much. But if I already shelled out $50, I consider that the publisher already made a reasonable profit and have no desire to increase it further by an indeterminate amount at the expense of my user experience.

Re:Not in a paid for product (1)

Haeleth (414428) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978666)

Games are supposed to be set in an alternative reality
They are? Is that a law or something? And all these games that claim to be hyper-realistic representations of genuine historical events, are those all really supposed to be in an alternative reality too? Damn, I really should read the fine print a bit better next time.

Conditionally yes but not because I want to 'help' (2, Insightful)

barius (1224526) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978204)

Why would I want to 'help out' if the company is making money without extra 'help'?

This would be an understandable addition to the game if it were a necessary revenue stream, but it isn't. I do not at all feel compelled to look at them if they detract from my game playing experience in even the slightest way.

That said, if:

  • They are not an eyesore and blend in as though they were a part of the game world itself.
  • They do not add 'bloat' to the game in the form of lag while adverts load or cause extra overhead that impacts performance.
  • They do not incorporate any 'tracking' of my habits or behaviours.
  • They do not advert stuff I don't want my kid exposed too.
Then: I'm ok with it. Unfortunately (fortunately?), I've never seen anyone succeed at all of the above requirements.

Re:Conditionally yes but not because I want to 'he (1)

Lithl (1217704) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978498)

  • They are not an eyesore and blend in as though they were a part of the game world itself.
  • They do not add 'bloat' to the game in the form of lag while adverts load or cause extra overhead that impacts performance.
  • They do not incorporate any 'tracking' of my habits or behaviours.
  • They do not advert stuff I don't want my kid exposed too.
Then: I'm ok with it. Unfortunately (fortunately?), I've never seen anyone succeed at all of the above requirements.
  1. NCSoft will have complete control over the ads that appear, including making sure they're appropriate for a Teen rated game, fit within the game world, and (I assume) are tasteful.
  2. The code that's going to swap in the billboards already exists, there just weren't advertisers previously. My understanding is that any lag caused by the new system would be exactly identical the the lag caused by the current billboards.
  3. From what I've read, it's going to use your IP to differentiate between US and EU ads, but nothing else about the user is even checked by the game.

Re:Conditionally yes but not because I want to 'he (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22979152)

They do not advert stuff I don't want my kid exposed too.
You mean, like spelling and grammar books?

Never minded (2, Insightful)

Vampyre_Dark (630787) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978232)

I've never minded subtle in-game advertising. A few of my favorite PS2 games have product placement all over them, or ads on the billboards in the city streets.

They add to the realism of my surroundings, and I always love fake ads when they are plastered all over games like GTA. I usually litter my own 3d art with fake ads. If the Sprunk machines suddenly became Sprite machines, I wouldn't mind.

Just don't start showing me 30 seconds spots, and use common sense that doesn't stray too far from the context of the game.

If you want to advertise in a fantasy RPG, don't put your out of place products in there, sponsor some kind of cool event that takes place in the game. Then maybe your ad will get a positive vibe, instead of a bad stigma.

Coke and Pepsi usually run promotions in the summer where you collect points to exchange for prizes. They could sponsor a new event inside WOW where participation would earn you some points, and maybe some unique gear that will only spawn for a limited time that players could earn for bragging rights.

Sure. (1)

xx01dk (191137) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978262)

Sure. I "opt" out of purchasing games that include advertising all the time. Oh, wait...

i click for south park (2, Interesting)

jackchance (947926) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978300)

If i'm on a website that i like, i'll often click on ads to increase the chances that the site will survive .

Southparkstudios is a recent example of this. trey and matt have put the entire volume of their south park work online (and some fun games.... there is a mario kart like racing game) in an ad supported way. They went out on a limb and i think they should get some back.

What i would really like to see though is some paypal micropayment system where i could pay them to play the shows ad free. I wonder how much they actually make from a single episode?

I've never bothered with ads.. (3, Interesting)

magamiako1 (1026318) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978324)

I don't know about anyone else here, but I have never in my life clicked on an ad I have found on a website to purchase an item. And the 'ad bubble' will fall, which is why I find it funny that people seem to cling to it.

It's an empty revenue stream. Do you think advertisements on a website really sell a product more? Honestly not. I know of nobody that pays attention to them. Even moreso when the ad is in your face like "CONGRATULATIONS! YOU HAVE ONE THIS!" or "HERE HAVE A SEIZURE WHILE TRYING TO HIT THIS MONKEY!"

Where the real revenue stream will come from is having solid content that people are willing to pay for. People don't buy from newegg because they see newegg adverts smeered all over the place. In fact, newegg doesn't even advertise on TV (though they might have a few times but it's not generally known to the public) yet they make so much money.

Back to the topic at hand, though. Simple fact:

1. I will never buy a product I see in a video game.
2. I don't want a video game wasting my bandwidth and gaming cycles to load an advertisement dynamically while I'm trying to frag someone because I'm never going to buy the stupid item in the first place.
3. I'd rather my games and fantasy worlds use "joke" versions of popular brands because it makes them funnier, laughing at some of the ways they label brands (Youtoob in South Park vs. Youtube).

I'm also that guy that walks into Best Buy that knows what he wants and is in and out. I don't buy their replacement plans, I don't buy their 5000 accessories. I want an item and I want just what I want.

This reminds me of monkey island... (3, Funny)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978326)

and their blatant sales pitch [youtube.com] about Loom.

It was funny :)

this would be incredibly annoying (2, Funny)

suck_burners_rice (1258684) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978350)

I really think that television-style advertising maps well to the computer. Every several minutes, the entire computer should pause while full-screen commercials play for several minutes. The ratio should be something like 4 minutes of computing, 5 minutes of commercials. There should also be some sort of mechanism in place to make sure that the user is actually watching the commercials, not just taking a coffee break. It could be something as simple as flashing a random number at several random points during the commercials, and then requiring the user to enter the last number shown prior to regaining control of the computer. If the user cannot enter the number, or makes a mistake, all of the commercials repeat, with ten additional minutes of commercials added in as a penalty.

Subsidising Subscription Fees (3, Interesting)

zblack_eagle (971870) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978352)

Perhaps they could divide up advertising revenue or a portion of the revenue amongst all of the players viewing advertisements to reduce the monthly subscription fee. So in the end players are "paying" the same amount. The more people viewing the ads, the greater the overall revenue, and perhaps more people would subscribe to playing

ADVERTISING IS GOOD (2, Insightful)

RandomU (1185807) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978364)

Many of you think that no one wants advertising. Good advertising will get a sizable number of players to keep the feature turned on.

This can be done with

1)Humor (Look at the number of people who go to YouTube and watch the from the super bowl). If there is a really good ad up and people are laughing and talking about it then other players may well activate the add feature.

2) General Interest Ads that provide information that COH players by in large want (Ohhhh look, the new Batman Movie is coming out with special trailers at...)

3) A diversion from the same 3 Year Old in game fake adds (Yea Ive seen that Crey Industries Billboard for the 15,345 time now for the love of god give me something new to look at.)

4) Non advertising information on events that is available out of game, but this makes it more likely that I will remember to get the time off work for DOUBLE XP WEEKEND.

Further more if the players see evidence that they receive benefits (More game features added faster) they will have even more incentive to keep them on.

Keep in mind The Ads are Optional. Contrary to what some here are saying there is NO reason to assume they will become mandatory. As it is if the Adds dont work NC soft looses NOTHING. Why does anyone think a profitable company would risk loosing 20, 40 or even 60% of their player base so they can make a few extra bucks with MANDATORY ads?

Random

Honestly? (5, Insightful)

Geminii (954348) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978404)

Are there any sites or services in which you'd voluntarily look at ads to lend a hand?

No. Not a single one. In fact, I would (and do) take time, effort and money to configure my computer to specifically exclude such wastes of my paid-for bandwidth.

I have at least three spam filters (ISP, home mail server, POP client) on my email.

I have ISP and personal spam filters on my Usenet feed.

I have multiple regex blocks applicable to my browsers, 99% targetted at in-page advertising.

And hey, my bandwidth use has dropped into a cheaper bracket. So not only am I unperturbed by advertisements for crap on the other side of the world, I save money.

To advertisers: I already follow fifty-seven news feeds, including multiple ones about new products in areas of personal interest. If I'm not buying your product, it's because either I don't want it, or I don't consider the product list of your particular industry niche to be worth my time. If I ever want to buy something in that niche, I will go do research on it at that time.

And guess what - if there's an entire product niche that I don't know about, and have never even heard a whisper or hint about from family, friends or blogs, there's a fairly good chance that I don't freakin' need any product in that niche.

If and when I get or build a PVR-alike, it will be set to delete or block ads. I already don't watch live TV any more. I prefer DVD players which can skip the pre-main-menu crap and any trailers/ads, too. I don't buy newspapers, and if there was a way to get the free local ones on paper with the ads removed, I'd be looking into it.

"Pull" advertising I don't mind. If I go specifically looking for a product, then by all means try and sell it to me. But any form of "push" advertising irritates the hell out of me.

For free games... (1)

haifastudent (1267488) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978508)

I most certainly would opt into the advertising for free games. That's how I support the websites that I read, why not games? Of course, I'd expect to see the ads _after_ the game, not during. Just like I click on website ads _after_ I finish what I came to do on the site.

sh17 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978510)

It is just another revenue stream, period (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978514)

No retail, published game as yet has had its fate decided by advertising revenue. The amount of cash that comes in from this source will not make the difference between sinking or swimming. For an indie game, maybe, but not a game that is commercially supported. All told, it boils down to whether you want to use your eyes to make the publisher richer.

Of course, it's good that NC is giving you the choice. But don't assume for a second that opting in will somehow provide the funding needed to make CoH a better game than it already is. Charity is good, but it has to produce results. Otherwise you're just being fleeced by people sustaining themselves on goodwill money intended for another purpose. So "we're gonna give you the option to see ads" should not be interpreted as "we're going to give you a chance to help your favorite game/company". That's not it at all. Try "we want more money, and since there are indications that forced advertising will cause us to lose some customers, we'll play it both ways to maximize our profit".

On Tom Green's Site (1)

sleeponthemic (1253494) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978534)

Are there any sites or services in which you'd voluntarily look at ads to lend a hand?

Absolutely. After paying a gigantic broadband bill of "more than the cost of a BMW", Tom Green momentarily had to take down his videos to come up with an advertising strategy.

He now has popup ads that come up during the playback of the copious amounts of video he provides on his website (for free) and I know that many of his constituency (including myself) are happy to try to subsidise the amount of good will he has show us by clicking on the ads at every occasion.

People who give, give, give for free deserve to be rewarded and I can think of few who have given on their website as Tom has over the last year or so.
 

I have ads enabled... (1)

AlmondMan (1163229) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978624)

In Anarchy Online even though I've been a paying subscriber since 2001. The ads aren't disturbing in any way really and they're only located in certain areas of the game. If more money gets into the hands of the developers of the game I play, then I am all for it.

Know your market (1)

dcrockerjr (1107773) | more than 6 years ago | (#22978754)

Instead of designing the games to have more ad space work the product into the game. Companies are used to remarketing their products for different demographics (US v England). In a medieval setting hitting the local apocathary for some Jolt (TM) would not be out of place provided the packaging and logo were consistent with medieval printing technology. +Charisma Vitalis (TM) anyone? What products might Drizzt Do'Urden (TM) reasonably use? Celebrity endorsements are valuable. What interesting products might one find in a temple of Dibella (TM)?

Slashdot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 6 years ago | (#22978830)

My copy of Firefox has Adblock installed. I think it came with the default installation (I don't remember adding it on). I never bothered to configure it because I thought looking at the ads was providing the revenue for the website I visited. But I had a friend come over, and he set it up and turned it on. I have very mixed feelings about this.

So now I am one of the leeches. And I expect someday this will be criminal.

Already present in TMN (1)

Klest (1268412) | more than 6 years ago | (#22979098)

This is already present in the free game 'Trackmania Nations' as an optional feature.

Optional Ads are GREAT! (0, Troll)

crhylove (205956) | more than 6 years ago | (#22979186)

If they are advertising a product people actually want to hear about. I thoroughly enjoyed the last GTA IV video. If there was a half decent American car still made (like my 1964 Dodge Dart, but electric), I would happily watch ads for that (like I do for the Tesla, and from 1964 of my actual Dart on YouTube). The problem isn't Optional Ads. The problem is Optional Ads for BULLSHIT like penis enlargement, singles online, and Spicy Ranch Doritos. Fuck those ads. Can you say fuck on /.? Mod me down! Satan said the F word! Seriously though, I just want my solar powered house and car for a reasonable price so I can drive to work without being bankrupt. Show me some fucking ads for that. And stop lending billions of dollars to people who can't afford houses. I mean, there's gotta be a cheaper house they can buy or something. Seriously. Fuck Obama and Hillary. They can suck my fed up American dick. Or was that Monica? And (this one's for the SlashDot crowd), "WHERE IS MY ALWAYS ON ALWAYS CONNECTED OPEN SOURCE PHONE THAT DOES VIDEO CHAT FROM ANYWHERE OVER THE INTERNET, AND YES IT CAN CALL REGULAR PHONES JUST AS EASY?!?"

rhY

PS I don't in any way want to appear to be endorsing McCain whom I see as a bigger sell out than Hillary, which is saying something, is it not? I think the media distorts the numbers and more people like Kucinich than Fox news tells us. Or is that so hard to believe? Things have been SHIT in this country since they whacked Kennedy, and I for one am tired of it. I want my solar powered car, house, video cell phone, (Or better yet, just put all that in a luxury RV Zeppelin that drives itself via GPS)and I want it all for free from the Sun, and for cheap because every other kid on my block has 3 of each. And I want to go to the moon, and let people grow food without patents, and I want healthy organic free range birds of all type, and I want it cheap and fast, like Starbucks which basically has me on a 2 coffee a day habit now like the evil pushers they are. I want to punch Joanie Mitchell, I swear to god. Who let this happen? WHERE IS THE MEDIA?!?!?!
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