TiVo Relaunching As a Patent Troll? 335
An anonymous reader writes "TiVo's quarterly call was a bit more dramatic than usual. While they continue to lose customers and innovate 'at a very unhurried pace,' TiVo seeks a repeat DISH Network performance in going after AT&T (T) and Verizon (VZ) for infringement. Basically, TiVo's current business model appears to be ad sales and patent trolling."
TiVo was cool... (Score:2, Interesting)
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TV seems to be more and more reality shows, dull sports and bad programs for children than anything else.
When the peak of science during the week on TV is Mythbusters (nothing really wrong with them) then there is something really bad going on.
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There is a disconnect between "cool stuff being on" and your personal schedule.
This is exactly what the Tivo tapped into. It allowed people to free
themselves from other people's schedule. You no longer had to plan
your life around the stupid little box in the living room.
While Tivo was an innovator, they primarily exploited improvements in
consumer hardware and widely available software features.
Unfortunately, they were seduced by the dark side of patent trolling
and ceased to push their technology forward in
Re:TiVo was cool... (Score:5, Insightful)
BUT, other companies are still pedaling their hardware that infringes on Tivo's (still valid) hardware patents. Tivo enabled certain things that everyone was chasing after for years. should they be able to profit by copying? this is what the patent system was supposed to do, reward innovators with a temporary monopoly, and grant legal leverage to support that temporary monopoly.
this is the patent system working as it should, for hardware inventions that have been reduced to practice.
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BUT, other companies are still pedaling their hardware that infringes on Tivo's (still valid) hardware patents.
Is anyone else imagining Tivo as the Wicked Witch of the West, pedaling on a bicycle in a twister, cackling about patents?
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Yeah everybody they had deals with tossed on them and made their own a little too much like another TIVO. I hope they do go after them, because they are certainly not trolls. They have valid patents, but these other companies are probably big enough to drive them to bankruptcy before they can collect at 5 years at least.
TIVO didn't invent diddly (Score:3, Interesting)
> I see. On your PC that you bought from Best Buy 11 years ago... [blah blah deleted]
I had a video capture card in 1994.... with Linux support. The only reason I didn't build a PVR was it didn't capture in MPEG so the files were either very large or crap, software encoding was way too slow and hard drives weren't nearly big enough to be practical. But I certainly had the notion that using a computer instead of a VCR for timeshifting TV would be a good idea that would soon be practical way back then whe
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> I see. On your PC that you bought from Best Buy 11 years ago, you were able to have your shows recorded to a digital medium from any arbitrary analog source?
1) yes
Like the other guy, I had an analog TV frame grabber card at that time.
> You could both watch a show and record something else, simultaneously?
2)
You mean could my Unix computer MULTITASK?
Could my
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Hopefully, they will continue to be innovate. Things liek partnerships with Netflix are nice additions to the Tivo.
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Tivo patents are "actively being used to produce a quality product". As many others ahve mentioned, they are not sitting on the patents, as a patent troll would.
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but when there's only a few good things to watch (and/or several good things on at the same time),
That's good news for the consumer. TV networks are well known to put good stuff on when other networks do, and crap when other networks do, so you have to pick what good show you want to watch because all the good stuff is on at the same time on different stations. (prime time [wikipedia.org]) Time shifting adds a whole lot of goodness to the consumer.
Re:TiVo was cool... (Score:4, Insightful)
TiVO was a fantanstic invention. The problem is that it just can't compete against carrier-subsidized hardware.
You go to your Cable or Satellite TV operator and get an HD DVR for an extra $10 - 15 per month (versus a standard box) and no up-front hardware costs. Or you can buy an HD TiVO for $300 plus pay another $12.95 per month for TiVO service and $4 to $10 per month for two CableCards to work with your carrier, and still not be able to access video-on-demand services. As you can see, there's just no ROI to buying a TiVO, and only a die-hard TiVO evangelist would spend on the hardware if the carrier's box is free and monthly costs are the same or less.
That leaves TiVO with only one asset to capitalize on over the long term: their intellectual property. If indeed they own valid patents on storing TV programming to hard disk then they are not only entitled, but required as a public company, to protect and capitalize on those assets. I would think that they would need to go after the box manufacturers, and not the carriers, to enforce those patents, but IANAL.
What this means to F/OSS projects such as MythTV will have to be determined.
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The problem is that it just can't compete against carrier-subsidized hardware.
That really depends on how much your viewing experience is worth to you, doesn't it? The carrier-subsidized hardware that I've seen from Time Warner sucks donkey balls. The interface is slow, the remote is cumbersome and unintuitive and the box needs to be rebooted more times in a month than my TiVo does in a year. I'd go back to a VCR before I'd use one of Time Warner's shitty DVRs.
My TiVo was worth every penny of the money I've spent on the hardware and service. I even kept it when I ditched basic ca
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Dumb.
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TiVo doesn't want to get into the content distribution business. Companies like Amazon, Netflix, etc. already do this so there's plenty of competition in that area. The great thing about TiVo is that if you use one of these services it's easy to set it up to watch videos on demand. My girlfriend has Netflix but doesn't have a TiVo so we plugged her Netflix account info into my TiVo. Now whenever she's over at my place we can watch any of the movies that she's selected and is available to be watched via
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What is this TV thing people talk about? I haven't used my TV (except for video games and DVDs) for over a decade. I know no one outside work who talks about TV. It is much more common to hear about what is new on hulu or netflix. Are my friends just too techie? I always thought this was a growing trend among the younger more tech savvy audience.
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In my experience, average people still do watch a lot of TV, but it seems they're becoming more focused, viewing TV as a means of accessing specific shows rather than as a general leisure activity ("I want to watch the next episode of X" vs. "I think I'll relax in front of the TV"). The American-Idol style shows, particularly America's Got Talent, still seem to be doing quite well.
Although I observed this mostly in middle aged and older audiences, so perhaps the viewing patterns aren't the same for the youn
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What is this TV thing people talk about?
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694 [theonion.com]
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TiVo was cool... but then TV got boring.
TV didn't get boring. TV always was boring. You just fell out of the large cross section that is the target of the major networks. Maybe you grew up, maybe your tastes changed or maybe you got sick of it. Don't get me wrong, I still watch Adult Swim now and then but everything else is by and large off the radar. I overhear my coworkers talking about modern TV and it's pretty painful. You can make a show called "The <insert adjective here> Housewives of <insert location here> County" and yo
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I partially disagree. Yeah, the stuff my coworkers talk about is pretty awful. With all of the talent/singing/dance competitions, reality TV, house flippers, entertainment news and cookie-cutter, police procedurals, it can be pretty depresing, but HBO, Showtime, SyFy (ugh, I hate to saying that name) and yes, AS have done a really good job of picking up the ball and going out of the bounds of the 15-steps.
As far as Adult Swim being doomed, I really don't see it happening too soon. They have a very loyal aud
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I have TiVo. I bought the lifetime service plan when I first got it. I've got NetFlix on-demand through it. I love it.
My brother had TiVo, but then Comcast gave away their DVR with his cable. He knows the Comcast software is inferior and the keypress lag is huge, but he can't justify the extra cost for TiVo's software, which he was paying monthly. It's hard to compete with free, especially when I'm actually paying an additional $8 a month to Verizon for the two cable cards in my TiVo.
That's TiVo's big pr
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In your opinion. Many people watch TV..millions upon million, in fact.
As much as I loath 'reality TV' it is very popular
I say this as someone who chooses not to pay a subscription to TV and get everything over the air or via the internet.
I'm sure TiVo has it in mind to move into on demand type products.
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Only a total idiot would watch (un)reality TV. That doesn't dispute your assesment of its popularity.
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I have a Series 1 Tivo; bought it about 10 years ago with a lifetime subscription. I late 2004, the cableco offered an HD DVR with HDTV, etc, so I switched to that configuration and stuck the old Tivo on the shelf. In 2008 I subscribed to Netflix, and thought the cableco DVR really wasn't needed anymore since I rarely watch live sports at home, and everything else of interest in HD was available on HD DVD or upscaled DVD.
I looked at the Series 3 HD Tivo, and decided to get one because it was cheap enough to
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Tivo is STILL cool, IMO. Unfortunately, it's dependent on a very uncool medium. When I first got Tivo, 90% of TV sucked, and Tivo helped me find the 10% that didn't. Now, I'm not even sure that there is 1% of TV that doesn't suck, and even Tivo can't find what doesn't exist.
Re:TiVo was cool... (Score:5, Insightful)
How is this a Patent Troll? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not like TiVo is a company set up to collect patents and then chase them down. They've had products on the market for years, would by many be said to have created the home digital recorder (and thus have attained many patents), still have products on the market, and other providers have created products that are now losing TiVo business.
So if the patent is valid (I haven't read it) then surely TiVo have as much right to go after infringers as any other company that has its patents on its products infringed?
Re:How is this a Patent Troll? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Be that as it may, it still boils down to calling James Cameron a leech on society just because you don't watch movies.
Just like how copyright infringement doesn't become legal, just because you don't want to pay for the items (which is the equivalent of what AT&T and Verizon is being sued for doing).
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Ok, then AT&T and Verizon should simply switch to offering standard TV and "On Demand" television shows, and not utilize a DVR in the home. Problem solved.
Or they can wait until TiVo's patent expires or they can pay licensing fees to TiVo. That's the way the patent system is supposed to work!
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Re:How is this a Patent Troll? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, that's the thing. If TiVo has a patent on time-shifting using a harddrive, then that is what the patent covers. We may not like it, but then we should try to change the patent system instead of calling companies that try to defend the patents that they use in actual products "trolls".
You may not believe, that you should have to pay a fee just to use an SUV in London - but those are the rules that society has agreed upon. You have two options - get the rules changed or face the music when you don't follow the rules.
Now, if this was targeted at individual people building their own home made DVR, we could talk about trolling even though patents also cover those things. But here we're talking about AT&T and Verizon, two companies with a market cap of $156 billion [yahoo.com] and $88 billion [yahoo.com] respectively. They should know better. Okay, it's AT&T and Verizon - from what we hear about them on Slashdot, I doubt they DO know better. And if 10% of what we hear about here is true, they sure as hell don't deserve us defending them.
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London charging a congestion tax is nothing like
Re:How is this a Patent Troll? (Score:4, Insightful)
The whole purpose of the patent system is to encourage innovation. In exchange for a temporary exclusive use of an idea, the idea is made public and later is usable by all. This encourages both innovation and openness. The alternative is secrecy.
Re:How is this a Patent Troll? (Score:5, Insightful)
I do believe that Rosa Parks [wikipedia.org] did one of those things and was a large part of the reason the other thing happened ...
She didn't attack the arresting officer, she didn't call him a thug, she didn't try to set the bus on fire. She faced the music.
See - no name calling.
See - she was willing to face the music. She worked with Martin Luther King Jr. [wikipedia.org], another person willing to face the music to change the rules. A man who told his followers that when they would be hit with clubs and fire hoses, they shouldn't t fight back but just keep on marching. A man who wasn't afraid to be arrested for civil disobedience.
Now, I realise that the reason you brought up bus thing was to "shame" me by liking me to the supporters of Jim Crow laws, which is why I've linked to both Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King Jr. - it's rare to see examples of people who are willing to fight the establishment when their own freedom are put at risk. Most will back down at the threat of being jailed. These wouldn't. That's why I linked to their Wiki entries - now you can read up on what they actually did. That way you don't have to make a fool of yourself again.
That being said, it's rather pathetic that you liken the actions of two multi billion dollar companies apparently breaking patent laws to avoid paying money to a company that barely breaks the billion dollar mark [yahoo.com] (AT&T + Veriozon: $244B, TiVo: 1B) to that of the civil rights movement. What next - are vegetarians or amateur painters to be likened to Hitler?
These two things (civil rights and patent suits between companies) are about as different as day and yellow. Like I said - if TiVo were suing people who built their own DVRs, we might start to talk about that being bad, but TiVo as a company not only creates and sells DVR devices, they also have patents on them. And if another company (especially companies that are worth almost 160 times as much) wants to create similar products, they must either work around those patents or license them from the patent holder. TiVo claims AT&T and Verizon have done neither.
And AT&T and Verizon don't need you to fight their fights for them. They'd just as soon shoot out your knees to steal your money if they could get away with it. If they don't like the patent in question (which they apparently don't) they can fight it in court or they can bribe^wconvince congress to change the rules. And if they accomplish the latter, don't expect AT&T and Verizon to come to your door with a heartfelt thank you and a discount. You're more likely to receive a cease and desist for breaking one of their patents or not using their networks.
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Sure, as will all DVRs; however that's still years away.
As much asI love Hulu it is lacking in show choices*, quality, and easily getting it to the TV, and competition not having a central location.
* Yes, they ahve a lot but not a majority.
Just wait.... (Score:2)
You don't need a DVR to watch on demand shows
Oh, but you will, you will. Every service starts out without commercials, then a few, then they're crawling out of the screen like locusts. So eventually you will download your hulu into another program, then use that program to skip the inevitable commercial hoarde that is unleashed.
If that program is sold by TiVo, that'll be fine with me.
SCO (Score:2)
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Re:How is this a Patent Troll? (Score:5, Insightful)
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The home digital recorder is a reflection of the state of the art in PC hardware and systems software.
It doesn't represent anything patent worthy. The fact that Tivo managed to
get some patents out of it just shows the inherent unsuitability of our
current patent office.
Their patent litigation is simply the result of not being able
to compete in a marketplace of mediocre competitors that just
happen to be gatekeepers for most of Tivo's potential customers.
Tivo can't compete with "free" on the lowend and can't c
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Re:How is this a Patent Troll? (Score:4, Interesting)
Its not unique. Digital video predates the tivo by decades.
What exactly should be be protecting here?
Already my DVR cannot do a lot of things because of patents. With a Tivo you can fast forward, press stop, and it will jump back a few seconds. Thats a tivo patent.
They are well protected in the market. If anything, this shows us how patents are way too powerful in the modern world. The guy with the best lawyer wins, not the originator or the small inventor.
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Digital video != DVR
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Already my DVR cannot do a lot of things because of patents. With a Tivo you can fast forward, press stop, and it will jump back a few seconds. Thats a tivo patent.
My U-Verse DVR does that too. I hope that the Tivo lawsuit causes them to drop that feature, because I find it terribly annoying.
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And just what did they invent? A digital video recorder. Only thing is, once all the pieces were there, the digital video recorder was inevitable. They just managed to be first to market. The first two patents broadly cover the DVR. The last patent covers correcting overshoot when fast forwarding and rewinding; the first claim is broad enough to encompass all the obvious techniques of doing so.
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They invented something new and unique.
New and unique and obvious.
Go read the claims in the patent. They are obvious.
Regardless of what the rubberstampers in the USPTO do, being the first to come up with trivial solutions in a new problem domain does not imply nonobvious. Why did nobody else think of these ideas before TiVo? Not because of any deep thinking on TiVo's part. It simply was because they were working on a new set of problems made possible by larger faster hard disks. (An enabling technology which TiVo had nothing to do with.)
If TiVo
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But, you mention: That's how anybody would have done it if they were working on the same problem
Thats the thing. The patent system rewards you for working on the problem. So, anyone else could have gotten the patent first if they had taken the time to work on the problem. but, they didn't. The patent system is designed to provide insentive to create.
Re:How is this a Patent Troll? (Score:4, Insightful)
IMO if you're trying to collect on an obvious idea, you're a patent troll. I doubt there's a single slashdotter here (except maybe NYCL) who couldn't have made a DVR out of an old laptop, a few roofing nails and a bananna. And most of us could have done it without the nails and bananna.
Interesting, if so why didn't you do? It is very easy to say things are obvious after the fact. For me it is obvious that planes can fly, and dead obvious why, that was not the case back then.
Now, if there is prior art, and if someone proves that WHEN they made it, is was pretty obvious how to do it efficient, kudos, and the patent will get invalid. If not, they have the right to go after anyone.
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IMO if you're trying to collect on an obvious idea, you're a patent troll. I doubt there's a single slashdotter here (except maybe NYCL) who couldn't have made a DVR out of an old laptop, a few roofing nails and a bananna. And most of us could have done it without the nails and bananna.
Interesting, if so why didn't you do?
I was going to, but someone ate my bananna...
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+1.
Sorry, but when TiVo was founded, Moore's law was still only giving us changes in degree, not changes in kind. The simplest way to record a TV show was with VCR+ codes from the newspaper. The idea of
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The moment I saw a Tivo, I knew that I could replicate it with an off the
shelf TV tuner. The only problem was the size of hard drives versus the
size of uncompressed video. This makes something like a Tivo impractical
if you are starting out with a bttv card. A tuner card that does it's own
mpeg2/mpeg4 compression makes implementing something like Tivo possible
with a standard desktop PC and little more than some mangey shell scripts.
Attempts to replicate the Tivo in software started immediately.
If some college
Why can't you watch TV with just a CRT? (Score:2)
The rumors of Slashdotter's technical skills are greatly exaggerated.
That old laptop is unlikely to include a TV tuner and even if you try to buy a tuner card, it may not be compatible with the old laptop. Are we supposed to make the tuner out of the bananna and roofing nails?
boop-BOOP (Score:4, Funny)
boop-BOOP ....
Tivo recommends "GET YOURSELF A LAWYER"
Trlling? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not trolling if your patent truly covers an innovation, and your competitors copy it. In this case it's called "protecting your rights".
Time Warp patent (Score:2)
Apart from the accusation that Dish illegally copied TiVo technology. I would have assumed that there were any number of methods of pausing, rewinding, and recording live television on digital video recorders. A PC, a tuner card, a dual head harddrive, and two instances of FFMPEG
Bill Gates' hurricane stopper [techflash.com]
It's Netscape VS MS Again.. (Score:2)
The way I see it, this may have merit, similarly to Netscape vs. MS. - Why would anyone bother buying a tivo when they can just get it right with their cable bill?
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build a desktop system with a couple of terabytes of disk space & Linux & MythTV
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Re:It's Netscape VS MS Again.. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Nope. He probably doesn't think that patents on "ideas" should exist.
A lot of the more bogus recent patents are effectively that.
The rather difficult task of building the mousetrap isn't the
thing subject to a government enforced monopoly, the IDEA of
a mousetrap is.
The whole "bundleware" thing is a tragedy but allowing bogus patents isn't the answer.
Re:It's Netscape VS MS Again.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would anyone bother buying a tivo when they can just get it right with their cable bill?
Because the cable company charges usurious rates and extra fees for a DVR with a crap interface that's littered with bugs? The only thing stopping me from switching to Tivo currently is on demand. You have to keep a box from the cable company for that to work, since cable card does not support it, and they charge you for it.
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Agreed with your points, but Internet Explorer is a piece of crap littered with bugs as well.. but yet many didn't use netscape (or even now still an alternate browser).
Point is, majority of people don't understand that they have choice because they are lead to believe that they do not.
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This is interesting....I was wondering if anyone out there actually used On Demand....
I've only met one person I know that ever used it.
Not a good summary. (Score:5, Insightful)
So this should be tagged "!troll" "badsummary" and "bitterposter" because I'm not entirely sure that this summary does it any justice. First, TiVo is not a troll for at least the reason that they actual manufacture products embodying the patent, have done so for a long time, and actually have revenue related to both hardware and subscription fees. [citation needed ;)].
Second, together with ReplayTV (now Motorola?), TiVo really was an innovator in this space. Whether these particular patents were innovative was at least decided with respect to DishNetwork. AT&T and Verizon will now get their chance to try to invalidate it. Who knows, maybe they have some damn good art.
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Further, the "unhurried pace" quote actually refers to dealing with an expired Java certificate in their desktop software (i.e. nobody's working on fixing it quickly.) "Innovating at an unhurried pace" is misleading and unsupported by the quote referenced.
Not all that trollish! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Agreed. TiVo wouldn't pass the purity-or-death Richard Stallman no-compromises test, but let's face it-- the cable industry cheated TiVo by locking them out, using all sorts of non-competitive practices including subsidized PVRs, turning CableCard into a joke, etc.
TiVo is definitely doing something I don't love, but they are essentially fighting douchebaggery with douchebaggery.
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Let's face it, the cable companies aren't all that inovative on their own and they probably wouldn't have come up with the idea for a DVR w/o seeing TIVOs.
You can't patent an idea, only an invention or a process. If Mr. Coffee has patents on their coffee maker, it doesn't mean that nobody else can make coffee makers, it means nobody can use their way of making a coffee makers.
My former brother in law worked in a manufacturing plant, and the boss would hand him some gizmo or another and say "can we make thes
Re:Not all that trollish! (Score:5, Informative)
Ridiculous or not, that the whole idea of patents, as a means of providing a reward for innovation and thereby encouraging innovation. To quote the provision of the US Constitution enabling patents and copyrights: "The Congress shall have the power [...] [t]o promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries."
Well, if Ford had invented the car, sure, it would be like only having Ford cars for a brief period after Ford invented them.
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I know how the system work. Guess what? Its 2009. The tivo has been out for TEN YEARS. Thats an eternity in the electronics world. The current system that gives monopologies for 14-20 years is ridiculous. Tivo had its time.
OK, so you don't agree with the patent system for electronics. How does that make TiVo a patent troll?
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Just be glad patents aren't as long as copyrights. Inventors are a lot more fortunate than artists in that respect.
Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's probably a better business model than
1. Spend lots of money to invent the mousetrap
2. Spend more money to make it better
3. Allow cable/satellite to build 80% of your ideas into their own equipment and cut you out of any revenues
4. Profit
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NOT a Patent Troll (Score:5, Insightful)
Longing for the good ol' days (Score:4, Insightful)
As someone who is a DirectTV subscriber I can only hint at how much myself and every other DVR user they have that I have talked to miss Tivo when it was DirecTV's DVR offering. This "homebrew" or whatever DirectTV is calling it blows on a level hard to describe.
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I have heard this from many people. It's on my somewhat long "projects" list, but it was nice having a device that did what I wanted that I didn't have to build myself.
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The funny thing is I wasn't that impressed with MythTV. Sure it had a lot of functionality, but the user interface wasn't very good, and it broke down regularly.
First it was that the database got corrupted and shows wouldn't fast forward properly. Then it was that one of the channels mysteriously couldn't record sound (although it could with other apps on my system). Then it was something after that. It seems like I was messing with the configuration every 3 or 4 months.
Sadly (as I liked the idea of a f
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except that it can't replace my directv high-def receiver. at least not while recording and re-displaying in high-definition.
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Write your senator.
Ask them why it isn't trivial for a Tivo or MCE or MythTV to interface with DishTV and record HD content.
Trashing the free market isn't going to help anything. It will just
replace some mediocre monopolies with a slightly less mediocre
monopoly-wanna-be.
Tivos were nice in 1999. They are a bit dated now.
We need more 3rd party Tivo knock offs.
Not a troll (Score:3, Informative)
It's a legitimate case for used technology.
A patent troll is just someone who patents lots of 'ideas' and then sue whoever happen to have something similar in the market.
Slashdot patently relaunching as a troll. (Score:2)
GMAFB, protecting one's patents != patenttroll.
Having said that, TFA is, questionable objectivity aside, a model of a well researched blog posting.
Recommend a TiVo alternative? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm a long-term TiVo user, but this story reminds me of my simmering frustration with TiVo. Years ago I used a Hauppauge card, and their interface had innovations that TiVo still hasn't picked up on, like a vastly superior conflicts-resolution system. Is there a decent alternative to TiVo, with a better interface? Cable-company solutions are generally poor, as I understand it, and I frankly don't have time to roll my own Myth system. (I would consider an out-of-the-box Myth product, though.) I'd appreciate informed recommendations.
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Let's think about this... (Score:2)
.... you can sit on your ass, hire some lawyers, and soak up millions via your government granted monopoly. Or you can roll up your sleeves and work your ass off innovating, servicing customers, and building up a customer base. What the frick would you choose?!
Re:Let's think about this... (Score:5, Insightful)
.... you can sit on your ass, hire some lawyers, and soak up millions via your government granted monopoly.
That's what the cable companies do.
Or you can roll up your sleeves and work your ass off innovating, servicing customers, and building up a customer base
That's what TiVO did.
Sadly, it looks like they're quickly going out of business. The government should have mandated a universal standard for Satellite and Cable boxes so that TiVO (and any other manufacturer) could easily interface. Instead, we have a slapdash mix of ever-changing technologies like ATSC, QAM, SDV, etc and it's very difficult to design to a moving target (as anyone who has attempted to use a TiVO with CableCard knows).
Re: (Score:2)
I agree with everything you wrote. TiVo did innovate. Cable and satellite companies made it impossible to keep up. And the government/FCC should have stepped in and did something.
However, that doesn't change the fact that TiVo is now basically a patent troll. Sure they sell products, but their future income will come from patent settlements, not customers.
Enforcing Patents isn't being a Troll (Score:2)
The patent system is designed to give innovators a temporary monopoly on their innovation, in order to encourage that innovation.
I don't think most people would argue with saying Tivo was an innovator, unlike the "troll" companies who have no product except to enforce patents that they acquired rights to.
Tivo has a product, and they have a legitimate right to enforce their patent rights against companies infringing on those patents.
Patent putting old wine in new bottle (Score:3, Interesting)
What had happened was that the army sent a captain to talk to all scientists working in the Manhatten Project and patent all the innovative ideas. Feynman told this captain, "Well, energy is just energy and you have this nuclear energy now. Just use this in any old thing that needs energy and presto! you got a patent. Put it in a ship Nuclear Powered Ship, put it in a plane, Nuclear Powered Airplane. Put it in a sub... you get the idea." A couple of weeks later the captain returned and said, "Well the ship and the sub are taken. But the plane... Its yours!".
Funny thing about the incident is, the Government would buy all these patents back from the scientists for a nominal sum of 1$. So the captain made Feynman sign it over to the government. Feynman demanded his dollar. The captain said, it was just a formality. But Feynaman stood his ground. "I want my dollar." So the captain, out of frustration, just gave him a dollar out of his pocket to get it over with. Actually setting up the paper work to collect 1$ from the government would have been too much of a hassle. So Feynman did what he always does. He bought donuts (for lot more than a dollar I assume) started going around the lab saying, "Have a donut, I got a dollar from the Army for my patent". The lab was full of people who had signed over 40 or 50 patents to the government. They all started pestering the captain for their dollars. And Feynman had a hearty laugh at the captain.
Most of these patents do not strike me as non-obvious at all. Just "do the same old thing, but now with computers!" and apply for a patent.
This is not patent trolling. (Score:5, Insightful)
Technology was not being developed because the people with the power did not want it ruining their business. (i.e. TV and cable/satelite tv execs)
Finally, innovative customers risked their own hard earned cash and developed the technology.
It immediately became a huge success. A new word was formed - to tivo it.
Finally the cable execs realized that they were losing business so they used their installed monopoly on black boxes to take over the business. They tried hard to ignore the copyrighted new word and replace it with "dvr it". Too bad dvr has no vowel.
The innovator that created the business could not compete with the installed monopoly base of black boxes. They tried to pass laws to let them sell the black boxes, but the cable companies effectively weakened those laws. They got destroyed not because they did not have a superior product but simply because of the monopoly factors (i.e. I can buy a Tivo but I still have to pay the cable company to rent a cable box - why pay twice?)
This is why patents exist - to protect the profits of the inventors that actually took the risks and created the product from the slimy large businesses that come in after the product is created and steal customers away.
Nobody does it better... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm disappointed that TiVO has made some spectacularly bad decisions in their business dealings, but for me, they still make a better mousetrap.
I've done my own DVR, had a Cox (SciAtl 8300) DVR, and now, DirecTV's abortion of a solution. (Just bought a farm where cable is apparently unavailable FOREVER, due to the location and population density)
The device/service I still own and love is my TiVO HD. It just works SO much better and more reliably than anything else I've got or built. The NetFlix, Amazon, and YouTube on-demand stuff is nice and used a LOT. I live 10 miles from the closest video store, so those features have real value for me.
Plus, TiVO's customer service people and website are FAR superior to DirecTV and Cox.
Last night, we had a big rain come through. "Searching for satellite" was the only thing on DirecTV. My TiVO unit, connected to a Terk HD antenna, enabled us to watch local stations until the storms passed. Plus, my DSL stayed up (it's iffy out in the sticks on a GOOD day), so I watched part of a movie on NetFlix via the TiVO.
IF, and I'm doubting it a lot, TiVO and DirecTV actually release a TiVO'd satellite box this fall, I'm moving to that BECAUSE of the TiVO software/service.
FWIW.......