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Utah Governor 'Honored' With Blackhole Award

samzenpus posted more than 3 years ago | from the prize-nobody-wants dept.

Government 161

The national Society of Professional Journalists plans to 'honor' Utah's Gov. Gary Herbert with the first-ever Black Hole award for a restrictive new open records law. From the article: "David Cuillier, SPJ's Freedom of Information Committee chief and a journalism professor at the University of Arizona, said he'll try to present the award to Herbert on Wednesday. The award, Cuillier said, is part of Sunshine Week, an annual initiative begun in 2002 to promote greater transparency in government. Nominations were gathered from around the country, but Cuillier said 'there was no question' the award should go to Herbert as the chief executive of the state."

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Utah: More of the same (2)

fishybell (516991) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495100)

As a resident of Utah I can't help but notice that national news always seems to revolve around polygamists and bass-ackwards politics. Woo Utah!

Re:Utah: More of the same (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35495148)

Forgive me if my sarcasm detector is broken, but as a resident of Utah you'd know that 99% of the state is not actually polygamist.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

jandrese (485) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495168)

Holy crap, 1% of Utah residents are polygamists! That's out of a national average of around 0%, so it's pretty impressive.

In related news, some residents of Wisconsin don't own foam cheese hats.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

clarkn0va (807617) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496020)

Polygamy is, according to wikipedia, "a heterosexual marriage which includes more than two partners." Substitute relationship or cohabitation for marriage and 1% starts to look like a really low number compared to their neighbours.

Re:Utah: More of the same (-1, Flamebait)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496896)

Substitute relationship or cohabitation for marriage

Buddy, that's exactly what a lot of us are trying to do and if it wasn't for the religious whackos in places like Utah, it would have happened already.

Until then, though, I don't think "substitute relationship or cohabitation for marriage" is a valid way to make any comparison, because there are a whole lot of kooks who believe that if you start to "substitute relationship or cohabitation for marriage" it would bring down all of Western civilization.

Personally, I don't give a shit if half a dozen women want to marry some patriarch and then believe that as long as Big Daddy makes it to heaven, they'll go to heaven too. As long as they don't go into fits if a pair of gay men or women want to have the rights to be married too.

Don't forget that a lot of the Utah "saints" (which should have been the name of the Salt Lake City NBA franchise) spent a whole lot of money to make sure that gay men and women couldn't get married in a neighboring state [alternet.org] .

The takeaway being a whole lot of Utah is a "black hole" where the modern world is sucked into the singularity, leaving only a lot of guns and holy underpants.

It's a shame, too, because it's quite a beautiful place except for all the crazy.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497814)

ehhhh? whackos? no, while the trust in fox news is high here thats got nothing to do w/ their (my) beliefs
and for the extremists, [strawmen] next time i see a atheist defending pedophilia because monkeys do it, i`ll be sure to call them out on it[/strawmen]

sorry but i had to feed the +2 troll

Re:Utah: More of the same (0)

dryeo (100693) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498058)

The problem,at least up here in BC is these old guys are forcing 14 year olds to marry them. http://www.google.com/search?q=polygamy+canada&hl=en&client=seamonkey-a&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&prmd=ivns&source=univ&tbs=nws:1&tbo=u&ei=LPN_TavVIJO-sQPMxvj7BQ&ved=0CGcQqAI [google.com] I don't have a problem with adults making an informed decision to engage in most any relationship but do have a problem with child abuse.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Unkyjar (1148699) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496628)

Yes, the ones who don't own foam cheese hats use real cheese hats.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495328)

I think that was part of the point...

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Doc Hopper (59070) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495750)

Correction: Approximately 2% of the population of Utah practices polygamy or currently lives in a polygamous family. That's around 40,000 people. So around 98% of the state isn't polygamist.

Source: James Brooke. "Utah Struggles With a Revival of Polygamy. " New York Times [New York, N.Y.] 23 August 1998, Late Edition (East Coast): 12. ProQuest Newsstand. ProQuest. Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah. 11 Dec. 2007

Re:Utah: More of the same (2)

uberjack (1311219) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496850)

I would imagine that most of those who practice polygamy wouldn't readily admit to it. So while I don't think Utah is all polygamist, I wonder about the accuracy of the 2%.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

monkyyy (1901940) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497642)

99.99% and even then they only stay near the idaho boarder, in order to move in the middle of the night and get protectoin from the red tape trip the law

Re:Utah: More of the same (0, Troll)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495236)

Take out polygamists and that describes most states.

Alaska: Palin, bridge to nowhere, and the internet described as a bunch of tubes. And it's ass-cold.
Arizona: bass-ackwards, racist politics
California I guess you have a little more, like mudslides, fires, and crime, but most news seems to be "Out of money" or "Pot smokers vote against legalizing pot."
Delaware: ... I can't recall any national news from Delaware.
Florida: just refused an assload of money. I guess they have more money than they can use? They have retirees rather than polygamists
Wisconsin: Cheese and billionaires busting up unions.


Hawaii is the one exception I can think of.

Re:Utah: More of the same (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35495298)

Alabama resident here. The rest of the country is small-time.

Re:Utah: More of the same (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35495468)

...pot smokers voting AGAINST legalizing pot?

Yeah, that would make the news.

Stony Californians (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35495632)

Well, since the cultivators, and by extension, their clients lobbied to keep the status quo, then yes, the pot smokers voted AGAINST legalizing pot. God forbid we cut into profit... Don't worry California, we're learning from your mistakes and will get it right here in Colorado.

Re:Stony Californians (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497038)

Don't worry California, we're learning from your mistakes and will get it right here in Colorado.

Oh, don't get me started on Colorado. You've got a whole 'nother level of religious whacko in Colorado. Except for Boulder and parts of Denver, Colorado might as well be Utah for all the bible humpers and mega-churches. Colorado Springs was the first place I ever saw one of those posters with Anglo-Jesus holding the Springfield rifle. It was in a diner just inside the city limits and they also had the poster of Jesus and Ronald Reagan looking down on America with love and steely resolve.

Y'all got your own problems in Colorado. Best not be pointing fingers at California.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Bucc5062 (856482) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495508)

Seriously, you forget Christine O'Donnell? The Party hearty wiccan from New Castle County that put the republican party of DE under a spell and had them vote out a moderate candidate for her?

There was the President allowing the media to document the unloading of KIA soldiers at Dover AFB, big stink when they couldn't do it, now not even a glance...such honor the news gives...

Then there is Joseph Biden himself, the ex senator, now VP of the US of A who's humble comments proceed him...

(ex Delawarean)

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496508)

I did indeed successfully forget O'Donnell, and the country has successfully forgotten that there's that there's still a war with casualties. But I apologize. For those two things. Not for Biden though: he's not so much "Delaware politics" as he is "National political distraction."

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497062)

I did indeed successfully forget O'Donnell

I understand Christine O'Donnell is planning to run for president, this time under the name "Newt Gingrich".

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496618)

You need to remind people by using her full name: Chistine "I'm not a witch!" O'Donnell. ("And I'll put a curse on anyone who says I am!")

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496586)

California: home to more extremists on both the right and the left, and very few moderates. I guess that's balance, of a sort. But the old adage comparing California to granola still remains true: take away the fruits and the nuts, and all that's left is the flakes!

Re:Utah: More of the same (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35497432)

California: home to more extremists on both the right and the left, and very few moderates. I guess that's balance, of a sort. But the old adage comparing California to granola still remains true: take away the fruits and the nuts, and all that's left is the flakes!

I'm not sure where you buy your granola from, but I've never had any that had flakes in it.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Coren22 (1625475) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496834)

Turns out that the "bridge to nowhere" is actually a bridge being built to an airport that is on an island. There is no population there as people don't tend to live at the airport...at least not by choice. The fact that this made national news without the supporting facts on the bridge shows the smear campaign for what it was.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496900)

But you admit it was messed up local politics, if not in the building of it, in the using it as a smear campaign. And, lets be honest, that's how most people know it.

Re:Utah: More of the same (2)

t2t10 (1909766) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497208)

So what if it went to "an airport"? The airport is served--and served well--by a ferry.

No, this wasn't a national "smear campaign", this was corruption in politics; it was an attempt by local developers to enrich themselves at the tax payer's expense. If the airport traffic and development of the island actually had justified building a bridge, then the bridge could have been paid for privately. That's something any red-blooded, free-market Republican should understand.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Slur (61510) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496888)

It's called "conventional wisdom" and it allows the media to readily program any person who identifies with a group. In other words, ~90% of our zombie populace.

Re:Utah: More of the same (2)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496960)

Florida: just refused an assload of money.

They believe high-speed trains and a black man in the White House are signs of the fulfillment of Revelations.

I guess the Antichrist had planned to arrive via a supertrain. Or something.

But they won't have to worry about that now, because they've made damn sure nobody's going to make them get their teeth fixed and the government's going to keep its hands off their God-given Medicare.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Gohtar (1829140) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495246)

As a resident of Utah also, I noticed we have appeared on Slashdot more than normal the past 2 - 3 weeks. Herbert deserves this award.

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Qwertie (797303) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496436)

"This is unquestionably undeserved," Isom [Herbert's spokeswoman] said. "The Legislature first passed this bill with a veto-proof majority.
"Were it not for the governor's action, the original HB477 would take effect. What the governor signed was an amended HB477 and, because of his leadership, we now have a process to remedy HB477."

I am not familiar with Herbert, but if this bill is his fault, why isn't his spokesperson eager to defend the bill?

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495532)

You forgot about the LDS (Mormon) church.

As a former resident of Utah, I've lost count of how many Mormon jokes I've had to hear out here whenever folks ask me where I moved here from (in spite of the fact that I'm not Mormon). Kinda gets old sometimes... :/

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496642)

"He's harmless! Back in the sixties he was part of the Free Speech movement at Berkeley. I think he did a little too much LDS."

Re:Utah: More of the same (0)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497068)

Kinda gets old sometimes

But the Mormon jokes never get old for us.

Re:Utah: More of the same (0)

t2t10 (1909766) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497236)

Given how ridiculous the Mormon religion is and how intrinsically intolerant it is towards others, why should people not at least joke about it?

Re:Utah: More of the same (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496534)

Since you are a resident, I can't help but blame you for helping to elect these Neanderthals into office...

Was he supposed to be the (1)

Compaqt (1758360) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495112)

most restrictive government official/entity in the whole world regarding information openness?

Not the people reportedly torturing PFC Manning prior to trial? Or angling to extradite Julian Assange? Or any of the Arab dictators?

Re:Was he supposed to be the (3, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495120)

The goal is to promote openness. So you give the 'award' to someone who you can specifically and publicly name and shame in order to generate some buzz.

Now if only the buzz weren't on a website with more javascript than a tutorial site...

Re:Was he supposed to be the (1, Insightful)

WatertonMan (550706) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495458)

Should have shamed Obama for not living up to his openness and actually being worse than Bush along with the Democratic Senate. I'm not expecting great things out of the Republican Congress but give them a few months to live up to Pelosi's low point.

Re:Was he supposed to be the (0)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498162)

Should have shamed Obama for not living up to his openness and actually being worse than Bush along with the Democratic Senate.

Any time you point out anything bad about Obama you're accused of stupid shit like "poisoning the well". He's too hard a target because so many schmucks are still in love with him.

Re:Was he supposed to be the (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35495848)

The goal is to promote openness.

Should have named it the Goatse award!

Re:Was he supposed to be the (1)

Locke2005 (849178) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496678)

"goatse", "black hole"... what's the difference?

"When you stare into the abyss the abyss stares back into you." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

Re:Was he supposed to be the (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35496318)

Now if only the buzz weren't on a website with more javascript than a tutorial site...

Come on, Slashdot isn't that bad...

Re:Was he supposed to be the (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35496670)

The other bill he signed just after signing this bill was a bill to overturn a Utah Supreme Court ruling which held that under existing Utah law, an electronic signature should count on citizen petitions and citizen initiatives. It's a one-two hack job to make it more expensive and difficult for citizens to participate in their government.

Should go to Obama (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35495142)

He can put it next to his Nobel prize on his "Awards for Things I Didn't Do" shelf. We all remember his plans and promises of greater government transparency. And yet the number of FOIA requests has gone up while the number of FOIA requests responded to has gone down. Many federal agencies are even taking longer to examine FOIA requests than they have in previous years. We need to start making politicians (ALL POLITICIANS) accountable for their promises. It doesn't matter what party they are. Politicians have gotten to the point where they can renege on their campaign promises any time they want and still get reelected because no one seems to care about what politicians actually do. Anything they say should be taken as nothing but empty rhetoric until they can prove accountability and trustworthiness.

Re:Should go to Obama (2)

skids (119237) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495194)

Awwww. The guy trying to change the subject to Obama didn't get first post this time. Such a pity.

Bad Bill (2)

dogmatixpsych (786818) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495146)

I have yet to meet someone in Utah (other than politicians) who likes this law that was passed. Utah politics gets a lot of things right (IMO) but this was not one of them. This bill will not last long as passed. It should not have been passed but it will be changed or removed later.

Re:Bad Bill (1)

OutSourcingIsTreason (734571) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495226)

Do the citizens of Utah have the ability to repeal bad laws via ballot initiative?

Re:Bad Bill (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35495284)

Maybe not, but there's always the bullet initiative....

Re:Bad Bill (3, Informative)

dogmatixpsych (786818) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495330)

Yes. It's already in the works as are court challenges and a lot of contact of representatives. Why this even passed baffles me but politicians do inexplicable things all the time.

Re:Bad Bill (1)

WatertonMan (550706) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495428)

I don't agree with the law but from what I understand the main issue was the cost of storing all the data and accessing it. The governor signed the bill to deal with the cost cutting but then promised a few months of public hearings before June in order to modify it. But the way it has been defended is as a budget issue. I admit I'm skeptical but then I'm surprised it got so much support which makes me think there was a lot of hassle to the prior bill but that politicians hadn't thought through this bill. So I hope the public hearings lead to a lot of revision.

Re:Bad Bill (3, Insightful)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495986)

"...the main issue was the cost of storing all the data and accessing it"

Funny, politicians never consider that when imposing (usually surveillance related) requirements on private business.

Re:Bad Bill (1)

retchdog (1319261) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496648)

are you sure, or do you just disagree with their conclusion about the cost-benefit analysis?

Re:Bad Bill (1)

BergZ (1680594) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496952)

Why can't one of the cost cutting measures (since we're all so worried about pinching pennies) be ending the war on drugs?

Re:Bad Bill (1)

Cwix (1671282) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497598)

Because the politicians are paid well by the pharmaceutical companies, and the private prison industries to keep it illegal.

The budget works like this, if you send money (aka bribe) to a politician then they protect all the budget items that are good for you. The problem is all the big players have paid their protection monies to the government, the only place to cut is from the little man. The government is actively trying to cut the little people out of the budget, why not they havn't paid their bribe.

Expect every single cut to services for the individual to be explained away with "budgetary reasons".

Re:Bad Bill (0)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495494)

Do the citizens of Utah have the ability to repeal bad laws via ballot initiative?

Yes, but if the local bishops say it should stay, then the initiative will fail.

Hopefully, there's no morality question involved with it (or anything that would threaten the LDS church), and they can get enough people to actually give a damn. :/

Re:Bad Bill (3, Informative)

dweller_below (136040) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497088)

In theory, the citizens of Utah could repeal this bad law via ballot initiative. Here is a good summary of the current law concerning Utah Ballot initiatives: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Laws_governing_the_initiative_process_in_Utah [ballotpedia.org]

In practice, we haven't seen a ballot initiative in years. In the last decade, we have seen a constant stream of state legislation tightening the restrictions on ballot initiatives.

I believe that the Utah legislature is attempting to avoid a repeat of the 2000 Civil Forfeiture Initiative. In 2000, Utah voters voted overwhelmingly for a initiative that placed common-sense limits on Civil Forfeiture. The most important reform required that income from seized assets be delivered to the School funds. It took the Legislature 4 years to repeal it and return Utah to the business of Policing for Profit: http://www.instituteforjustice.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3289&Itemid=165 [instituteforjustice.org]

In recent years, attempts to achieve ethics reform by Utah ballot initiative have been blocked by the many hurtles imposed by current law. They include:
1) You have to get more signatures than 10% of the vote cast for Governor IN 26 of the 29 counties. Miss that total in one county, and you are blocked.
2) You have 1 year to collect signatures. If your 10% in 26 counties is not certified by the end of the year, you have to start over.
3) You are blocked if the Lieutenant Governor thinks your initiative is patently unconstitutional; nonsensical; or if he determines that the Initiative contains more than one subject.

So, years since we have seen a ballot initiative. Don't expect to see another one in my lifetime.

Miles

Re:Bad Bill (1)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496340)

Yes but it's blatantly obvious that the citizens of Utah don't know what's good for them, and they're protesting a necessary initiative to take some load off the government and put sane policies in place.

That the government is doing something only it favors doens't indicate that it shouldn't be doing something. What it indicates is that something is wrong and needs to be fixed. The fact that the people don't agree with it doesn't necessarily indicate that they know what's good for them; however, it does indicate that there is a problem somewhere else. The Utah government thus needs to examine this problem further and come up with another solution that both solves the problem (that the people are too god damn stupid to understand is actually a problem) and satisfies the people.

That's what government is supposed to do.

is there progress? (1)

Hazel Bergeron (2015538) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495152)

the current law was written 20 years ago when such informal modes of communication as text messaging and e-mail were not widely used.

Did people just meet in person instead? A quick 'phone call? The first problem with recording official communication is that anything devious is communicated off the record.

Blackmail on the highest level (4, Informative)

deweyhewson (1323623) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495162)

It is worth noting here that one Republican legislator in Utah has come out so far and talked about being blackmailed by the leadership in the Legislature to vote for the bill without even considering or debating it.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=960&sid=14729423&s_cid=rss-960

The Utah Legislature is representative in name only, and have barely attempted to make any secret of their disdain and disregard for the Utahn people for years. Why do they keep getting elected then? That's the power of the (R) in this state.

The more national shame they receive, the better.

Re:Blackmail on the highest level (2)

C_amiga_fan (1960858) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495380)

>>>one Republican legislator...talked about being blackmailed by the leadership... That's the power of the (R) in this state.

We have the exact-same problem in (D) run Maryland, and I agree it's annoying. In one case I recall the Speaker of the House put a Poor Assistance bill (it needed to be renewed, or else it would die) into his desk and left it there, simply to force everyone else to give him a New train line through his district. i.e. Utah-style blackmail.

It's never a wise idea for voters to give all the control to one party. In fact I think we should try to restore the 1700s political system, where parties did not exist. Maybe make it illegal to be an affiliate of a party, once you enter the Legislature?

Re:Blackmail on the highest level (1)

sorak (246725) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496294)

It's never a wise idea for voters to give all the control to one party. In fact I think we should try to restore the 1700s political system, where parties did not exist. Maybe make it illegal to be an affiliate of a party, once you enter the Legislature?

Exactly, but with preferential voting [wikipedia.org] , so that the intention of the voters is more closely represented.

Re:Blackmail on the highest level (0)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495624)

Is the law a church-led/influenced thing, then? Not to harp on the LDS, but if anything is perceived by the Quorum to affect the church, then odds are perfect that they can and will strong-arm the legislature into doing/voting whatever's best for the church. Since only like 1-2 legislators are not practicing LDS members, it's a pretty easy task.

Re:Blackmail on the highest level (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35497076)

Is the law a church-led/influenced thing, then? Not to harp on the LDS, but if anything is perceived by the Quorum to affect the church, then odds are perfect that they can and will strong-arm the legislature into doing/voting whatever's best for the church. Since only like 1-2 legislators are not practicing LDS members, it's a pretty easy task.

Contrary to what most people think, the "Freedom of Religion" clause was inserted in the Constitution to protect churches from government, not government from churches. That latter notion is a modern interpretation, originating almost entirely from the political left. What freaks people out is that Utah happens to be the only place in the US where any single religion is dominant enough to create a state-level electoral majority. But having lived in Utah for 10 years at one point in my life, I can say that the LDS Church actually stays out of politics for the most part. In fact, it explicitly bans political discussion from the pulpit and the use of church property and membership records for fundraising and other political uses. It really only speaks out when it perceives a proposed law as affecting public morality (ex gay marriage), which isn't really uncommon--plenty of churches do the same, including the Catholic Church.

And while Republicans certainly dominate in Utah, there are plenty of Mormon Democrats. Of the 15 Mormons in Congress, 4 of them are Democrats--27%. Salt Lake City even has a Democrat mayor. So it's not like Mormons vote as a total right-wing political bloc--that notion is a total myth.

Re:Blackmail on the highest level (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35497292)

stays out of politics, except for massive spending to spread lies about gay marriage and proposition 8 in california, and the whole history of treason thing... other than that yea they stay out of politics.

Re:Blackmail on the highest level (1)

Bucc5062 (856482) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495724)

I am not buying this line of bull:

“I think it was too much one-party control in our state,” Powell answered.

“That's the way the Legislature runs,” he added, when asked to clarify. “It's terrible. It's an atrocious law,” he continued without prodding.

“It's the worst thing I've ever seen, not just in the time I've served, but in my lifetime in the Utah Legislature, but it's because of the way the party controls the Legislature.”

“So you voted against it?” Powell was asked.

“No. I'm a Republican,” he replied.

So if i understand this convoluted thought process,

1. The legislature runs via blackmail
2. He's think bi-partisan politics is better
3. This was a horrible, bad bill
4. --- (wtf???)
5. I voted for it because I'm republican (profit)

yeah, sure beats doing the right thing up front. So he's on record being against it, even though he voted for it (great for campaign sound bites), he doesn't have to lift a finger to change it because only the leadership can "do something" for all Utahites, and they law stands so he does not have to reveal any communications.....right, bad bill indeed, for the populous. That stinks worse then a dead fish rotting in the great salt lake during the middle of summer.

To make me a believer, rally your republicans, gain a majority of moderates in the party and make a fucking change instead of whining about blackmail....God they really are just assholes. (ex believer in the US of Ca)

Re:Blackmail on the highest level (1)

Lucidus (681639) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496986)

Populace. The word you want is populace.

Re:Blackmail on the highest level (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35496390)

It's not the power of the (R) in the state...it's the political power (corruption??) of select people, who happen to claim an affiliation with the (R) political faction.

Don't they know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35495178)

the term "black hole" is racist [foxnews.com] ?

give it to the legislature, not the Governor... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35495216)

ummm....if you knew the whole story, you would realize the Governor did what he did so that in the end the bill would be defeated....it's the LEGISLATURE leadership that needs the award!

Re:give it to the legislature, not the Governor... (1)

WatertonMan (550706) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495438)

He could have just vetoed the bill. But yeah, the way it is being portrayed makes it appear like the governor was behind it when he wasn't and he is trying to get it modified.

Re:give it to the legislature, not the Governor... (1)

moderatorrater (1095745) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496210)

The legislature had enough votes to overcome the veto. The legislature leadership truly is to blame in this instance.

Re:give it to the legislature, not the Governor... (1)

Daemon69 (892528) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495526)

This was my understanding as well. The legislature had the votes to override the Governor's veto. So, he signed it but gave it time to become law so it COULD be hashed out in public. Shame on the legislature indeed.

Re:give it to the legislature, not the Governor... (3, Insightful)

unjedai (966274) | more than 3 years ago | (#35498246)

That makes no sense. If he vetoed it and his veto was overridden it would still become law so that, as you say, "it COULD be hashed out in public". But you'd have sent the message that this bill sucked and was vetoed. I don't see a reason why you would sign a bill you are against. Just makes him look stupid if you ask me.

I'm surprised and disappointed (4, Insightful)

overshoot (39700) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495248)

Why not President Obama? Unlike his Nobel Prize, he's actually done something to deserve this one.

After promising us the most transparent Administration ever, he's actually (hard as it is to believe) racked up a worse record on FOIA requests than the Bush43 administration, set new records in cracking down on whistleblowers, and (to top it off) actually taken to torturing a political prisoner to fudge up a case against WikiLeaks for doing the exact same thing that the New York Times did [1].

[1] No, not the whole bit about knowingly publishing Administration lies -- that's totally cool and the fact that Wiki doesn't play that kind of ball may be part of the reason that they're in the Administration black book.

Re:I'm surprised and disappointed (4, Insightful)

mr1911 (1942298) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495420)

The only thing different about Obama is that his worshipers bought his load of BS hook, line, and sinker. He is a career politician who will say or do whatever it takes to further himself. Those that believed his "hope and change" story probably send money to Nigerian princes too.

Re:I'm surprised and disappointed (1)

rotide (1015173) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495514)

"The only thing different about Obama is that his worshipers bought his load of BS hook, line, and sinker. He is a career politician who will say or do whatever it takes to further himself."

News flash, it's the same on the other side of the isle. If you're willing to do what it takes to get elected, you're probably not worth voting for.

Re:I'm surprised and disappointed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35497012)

Umm. He did not say anything about either side of the aisle. The fact that you can determine the lipservice policies of a person by what side of an aisle they have a desk at, though, probably is part of the problem.

He basically said exactly the same thing you did. All politicians are scum.

Re:I'm surprised and disappointed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35496958)

Obama is a Harvard-educated-lawyer / Chicago-politician.

I think that tells you everything you need to know about him.

Re:I'm surprised and disappointed (2)

vux984 (928602) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495482)

After promising us the most transparent Administration ever, he's actually (hard as it is to believe) racked up a worse record on FOIA requests than the Bush43 administration,

Yes and No.

"Obamaâ(TM)s directive, memorialized in written instructions from the Justice Department, appears to have been widely ignored."

Yes, the foia situation is getting worse. But the real question is why?

Clearly he's not reviewing all the FOIA requests personally... so who is reviewing them and why are the seemingly clear instructions to be more transparent being ignored?

Is Obama secretly telling them to be less transparent, while very publicly signing instructions to be more transparent?

Is there an entrenched bureaucracy that is essentially acting with impunity?

I give his administration a failing grade on this too, but I'd like to give Obama himself the benefit of the doubt on this one. I don't think he's the problem. Whereas in the Bush years, both Cheney and Bush were part of the problem.

Re:I'm surprised and disappointed (1)

Scutter (18425) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496252)

I give his administration a failing grade on this too, but I'd like to give Obama himself the benefit of the doubt on this one. I don't think he's the problem. Whereas in the Bush years, both Cheney and Bush were part of the problem.

LOL WUT

Re:I'm surprised and disappointed (1)

vux984 (928602) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496650)

LOL WUT

Did I stutter?

1) Obama personally gave instructions to improve transparency
2) Obama administration fails at transparency
3) I'm not convinced Obama is the reason transparency is the problem.

4) Bush / Cheney administration also failed at transparency.
5) Bush / Cheney were personally part of that failure, having personally publicly and repeatedly defended the lack of transparency.
6) I see Bush / Cheney as part of the problem causing lack of transparency.

What part didn't make sense?

Re:I'm surprised and disappointed (1)

Scutter (18425) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497890)

If he gave specific instructions then why weren't they followed? He's the President of the United States. The buck stops with him. It's his job to take responsibility for the departments under his control. Giving him a pass and saying it's someone else's fault that his personal and specific instructions were completely ignored is disingenuous at best.

Re:I'm surprised and disappointed (1)

airfoobar (1853132) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495498)

Not to mention his disgraceful attacks on the internet, the very thing that arguably helped north-African countries overthrow their repressive governments...

Well said. (2)

Benfea (1365845) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495558)

The right spends so much time going on about how Obama is some kind of super liberal that is totally indistinguishable from a socialist, when in fact he is largely indistinguishable from Bush. Hell, his much-maligned health care bill was almost a note-for-note copy of a Republican health care proposal from the 1990s. He has proved to be exactly the kind of conservative appeaser/collaborator that I expected him to be.

Re:I'm surprised and disappointed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35496126)

arbitrary obama bashing slipped into non-relevant article, insightful 5? really?

For those who don't know what the Law's about (1)

commodore64_love (1445365) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495250)

QUOTE: "The law restricts access to most electronic communications by government officials, allows state agencies to charge higher costs to answer records requests, and places the burden of proof about whether a record is public on the person asking to see the record.

"The cards are stacked against citizens so badly that almost everything can be kept private," Cuillier said. "They can say no to every request and there's nothing that can be done."

I would argue that the government is taxpayer-supported, therefore all the information belongs to the Utah citizens, free of charge. Charging people outside the state might be reasonable, but charging your own citizens makes no sense. Perhaps it's time Utah dissolve its government and create a new one.

oblig. (0)

adeft (1805910) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495282)

Did the goatse guy come in second?

Try to present it on Wednesday? (1)

makubesu (1910402) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495356)

You idiots! He probably read the slashdot article. Now the surprise is ruined!

Re:Try to present it on Wednesday? (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495648)

Oh, hell... most of *us* don't read TFA - what makes you think a politician will?

Not really the full picture. (5, Informative)

slycrel (610300) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495396)

As a resident of Utah, I've been casually following this Bill. I was very perturbed to find out that it had passed, but I think I understand after hearing the governor's explanation. He gave an interview the day after and said basically that even had he vetoed it it would have passed. So he instead amended it, calling a special session so that there would be time for public debate and changes. I don't know all of the nuts and bolts of the process, but as a casual interested party that was good enough for me. In fact I respect the fact that he told the public why he voted for it and why he amended it -- it was in everyone's best interest (except Utah's congress maybe) for him to do what he did. He was handed a crap sandwitch and he sent it back to the kitchen, even if he's still sitting in the restauraunt that served it. In the end basically it's a law that will be re-voted on before it goes into effect, with public participation and transparency. The fact that the governor is being given this award over those who pushed the bill through in the first place is fairly disgraceful, assuming that it would have gotten through regardless of what he did.

I'm cautiously optimistic, and I know enough people involved in the political process here in Utah that I expect this won't stand for long even if it goes through in a bad state.

Re:Not really the full picture. (2)

slycrel (610300) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495578)

Interview l heard on the radio to come to these conclusions:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=14661633 [ksl.com]
(click the "Interview with Gov Herbert" link on the right side of the video pane)

Re:Not really the full picture. (1)

jhmaughan (865200) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496784)

Mod parent up. The reality is that this bill is focused on the cumbersome nature of tracking all forms of electronic communication. The legislators didn't want to deal with such a massive record keeping need since they are all part time anyway (IMHO). Herbert does want to effectuate a balance in what the public wants and what is realistic.

Re:Not really the full picture. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35497380)

He gave an interview the day after and said basically that even had he vetoed it it would have passed.

Wait, that doesn't make sense.

The House needs 50 votes to override Herbert's veto: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Utah_House_of_Representatives [ballotpedia.org]
42 people voted for the bill: http://le.utah.gov/~2011/status/hbillsta/hb0477.003h.txt [utah.gov]

42 < 50 How does that give them veto override ability? Were 8 people going to vote yes if he vetoed but no if he sent it through?

Re:Not really the full picture. (1)

slycrel (610300) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497684)

Thanks for the links, I didn't know personally how that process worked.

I was not saying that's a fact, that's just what he said and it seemed reasonable at the time. I really am casually following this. As in, I'm listening and paying attention, but I'm not a wannabe lawyer or legislator or researcher -- I don't have time to be. His solution sounded reasonable and I am familiar enough with local politics and his stances to have an idea that he's not BSing on his answer here. I may not fully agree with what's happening, but it doesn't really matter; I'm glad that this isn't settled, that it's getting more attention. I've also heard there is more to this story than just privacy concerns, and this extra time will help address those issues as well. Throwing it all out is setting the stage for another potential sneak attack. This way it gets addressed.

Black Hole Award? (1)

RevWaldo (1186281) | more than 3 years ago | (#35495404)

Well that sucks!

.

As a Utah resient this whold debacel has made (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35495978)

a few things very clear to me.
1: Utah's governor a crook.
2: Corporations with lots of money run the state legislature and the governor's office.
3: Utah's population is exactly how they are perceived outside of the state, religious ignorant rednecks.

Re:As a Utah resient this whold debacel has made (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35496414)

4. Utah residents cant spell

Blackhole award should have gone to... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 3 years ago | (#35496794)

OBAMA! hahahaha

It's the Region (0)

b4upoo (166390) | more than 3 years ago | (#35496902)

Some really strange law and political thinking starts in Texas and infests states north from Texas all the way to the Canadian border. Only God knows what has become of the minds of the people in those states. What is wrong with these people?

Works for me (1)

Zorque (894011) | more than 3 years ago | (#35497034)

As a Utahn, I've followed a lot of Gary Herbert's exploits. The man's a huge piece of shit, to say the least. It was amazing (if not infuriating) watching him get elected despite the fact that he never ever ever gave a straight answer to a question, was publicly proven to be the corrupt pawn of several different industries, and not having a single valid point against the challenging candidate.

I really wish Huntsman hadn't resigned to become ambassador to China. Even for a Republican he was a good governor.

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