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Snowden Gives Alternative Christmas Message On Channel 4

Unknown Lamer posted about 4 months ago | from the merry-overthrow-your-government dept.

Privacy 224

codeusirae wrote in with news that Edward Snowden gave an alternative to the UK's yearly Christmas message, speaking about his objections to mass indiscriminate surveillance by governments. The message aired on channel four at 16:15. Slashgear posted a transcript. Quoting: "Think about what this means for the privacy of the average person. A child born today will grow up with no conception of privacy at all. They'll never know what it means to have a private moment to themselves — an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought. And that's a problem, because privacy matters. Privacy is what allows us to determine who we are and who we want to be."

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224 comments

Enough (-1, Troll)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about 4 months ago | (#45782841)

I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him

Agreed (1)

magamiako1 (1026318) | about 4 months ago | (#45782853)

It seems he's coming more out of the woodwork now rather than sitting behind the scenes and letting the documents do the talking.

Re:Agreed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783035)

Where is the proof that this is actually Snowden talking?

Re:Agreed (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783225)

Snowden is in a precarious position at present. He has to rely on the good will of other countries to protect him from America, who quite possibly would give him the death sentence (or failing that imprison him for the rest of his life). By keeping himself in the minds of the global population he adds incentive to those protecting him; they get to be the 'good guy' by doing so. In short, this isn't narcissism, it is self preservation.

Re:Enough (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45782855)

This post brought to you by the NSA.

Re:Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45782899)

Right, because every comment that doesn't kiss the butt of Snowden or Assange is an NSA post. You're an idiot.

Re:Enough (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45782947)

Fucking moron.

Re:Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783389)

What an idiotic thing to say.

Re:Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45782905)

Can't you give the "worship Snowden" straw man a day off. He's getting very tired and would like to spend Christmas at home with his straw family.

Re:Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783037)

Blaw, blaw, blaw ... straw man ... Blaw, blaw, blaw

Learn that in college, did you? Every statement you disagree with is a "straw man", right?

Re:Enough (5, Insightful)

deconfliction (3458895) | about 4 months ago | (#45782919)

I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him

Jesus Fucking Christ, this man is going to spend the rest of his life, in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love. Cut the man some fucking slack you asshole.

Re:Enough (-1, Troll)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | about 4 months ago | (#45782939)

I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him

Jesus Fucking Christ, this man is going to spend the rest of his life, in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love. Cut the man some fucking slack you asshole.

Hopefully you're wrong. Hopefully he'll be caught and no longer be in fear.

Re:Enough (5, Insightful)

deconfliction (3458895) | about 4 months ago | (#45782995)

> Jesus Fucking Christ, this man is going to spend the rest of his life, in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love. Cut the man some fucking slack you asshole.

Hopefully you're wrong. Hopefully he'll be caught and no longer be in fear.

It sounds like you are OK with his being imprisoned and/or tortured and/or executed, and the same for anyone who was ever close to him, and perhaps another love-hop from there because authorities believe it makes the crucifixion more effective?

Snowden appears to have done the right thing, for the right reasons. He served our best interests.

Re:Enough (1)

ls671 (1122017) | about 4 months ago | (#45783443)

> in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love.

and/or tortured and/or executed, and the same for anyone who was ever close to him, and perhaps another love-hop from there because authorities believe

Jesus guys, come down a bit please. WTF would he be tortured? WTF would his siblings be bothered other than being harder for them to get security clearances?

I believe the cat is already out of the bag, so no reason for that kind of stuff.

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4596949&cid=45783413 [slashdot.org]

Re:Enough (2)

deconfliction (3458895) | about 4 months ago | (#45783485)

Jesus guys, come down a bit please. WTF would he be tortured? WTF would his siblings be bothered other than being harder for them to get security clearances?

Coincidentally enough, the answer to your question should be 'bloody obvious on this day, particularly with the first word you chose to use. Even for the non-believer, Jesus was a good reminder about modes of government intimidation. The authorities and masses couldn't get Jesus to un-say what he had already said. But they sure could terrorize the populace into preventing anyone from standing up to them again.

Re:Enough (1)

ls671 (1122017) | about 4 months ago | (#45783537)

particularly with the first word you chose to use. Even for the non-believer, Jesus

You are lost in left field. Read up a bit a bit and you will find out I just copy-catted it from the GGP or something.

Merry Christmas ;-)

Re:Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783173)

I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him

Jesus Fucking Christ, this man is going to spend the rest of his life, in extreme, rational fear for his life, and the lives of anyone he has ever, or will ever love. Cut the man some fucking slack you asshole.

In his line of work, it is the price of doing what he did.

Re:Enough (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783187)

He put himself in the position he's in, no-one else did it to him. Him and Assange are the new generation of Mesiah's who are using a different means in order to grab fame and power. They are doing quite nicely thanks to their reporter mates.

Re:Enough (1, Insightful)

deconfliction (3458895) | about 4 months ago | (#45783421)

He put himself in the position he's in, no-one else did it to him. Him and Assange are the new generation of Mesiah's who are using a different means in order to grab fame and power. They are doing quite nicely thanks to their reporter mates.

James Russell Lowell -
"
Once to every man and nation
Comes the moment to decide,
In the strife of truth and falsehood,
For the good or evil side;
Some great cause, God's new Messiah,
Off'ring each the bloom or blight,
And the choice goes by forever
Twixt that darkness and that light.
Though the cause of evil prosper,
Yet 'tis truth alone is strong;
Though her portion be the scaffold,
And upon the throne be wrong:
Yet that scaffold sways the future,
And behind the dim unknown,
Standeth God within the shadow
Keeping watch above his own.
"

Re:Enough (2, Funny)

tomhath (637240) | about 4 months ago | (#45783381)

There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.

I have to agree with the GP's post though; Snowden (or more likely the organization supporting him) is on a PR blitz to keep him on the front pages for as long as possible. It's getting old hearing the same story day after day.

Re:Enough (5, Informative)

deconfliction (3458895) | about 4 months ago | (#45783411)

There are whistle blower laws that would have protected him if he'd played by the rules. He chose to make a martyr out of himself.

Right... he was supposed to count on this commander in chief's attitude toward whistleblower laws to protect him and those he loved-???

http://www.policymic.com/articles/57017/obama-removes-promise-to-protect-whistleblowers-from-old-campaign-website [policymic.com]

"
(previously on Obama's website): 'Protect Whistleblowers: Often the best source of information about waste, fraud, and abuse in government is an existing government employee committed to public integrity and willing to speak out. Such acts of courage and patriotism, which can sometimes save lives and often save taxpayer dollars, should be encouraged rather than stifled. We need to empower federal employees as watchdogs of wrongdoing and partners in performance. Barack Obama will strengthen whistleblower laws to protect federal workers who expose waste, fraud, and abuse of authority in government. Obama will ensure that federal agencies expedite the process for reviewing whistleblower claims and whistleblowers have full access to courts and due process.'

While the connection between such blatant hypocrisy and its intentional "removal" from the internet remains speculative, the coincidence is too great to ignore. Moreover, it is hard not to recall George Orwell's 1984 and the Ministry of Truth's epic programs to rewrite history in an attempt to save face.
"

Re:Enough (5, Insightful)

techsoldaten (309296) | about 4 months ago | (#45782999)

Then who is it about? Who is actually standing up and doing something about this?

The definition of a narcissist is someone who excessively admires his or herself. I don't see how sacrificing one's own career, income, relationships, freedom to travel, reputation, and subjecting himself to ridiculous criticism and smear campaigns is compatible with that definition.

Edward Snowden has made sacrifices on behalf of principles we should all be standing up for. That has little to do with self-love.

Re:Enough (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783149)

Why don't you get it over with, fly to Moscow and offer to be Snowden's butt boy? I mean, it's clear that you already use his image to masturbate.

Re:Enough (0)

cold fjord (826450) | about 4 months ago | (#45783285)

Although narcissism may be involved, I think the phenomenon you are looking for is the:

  Martyr complex [wikipedia.org].

In psychology, a person who has a martyr complex, sometimes associated with the term victim complex, desires the feeling of being a martyr for his/her own sake, seeking out suffering or persecution because it feeds a psychological need.

In some cases, this results from the belief that the martyr has been singled out for persecution because of exceptional ability or integrity ...

The desire for martyrdom is sometimes considered a form of masochism.[6] Allan Berger, however, described it as one of several patterns of "pain/suffering seeking behavior", including asceticism and penance.[7]

Interesting tie in from his recent interview:

Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished [washingtonpost.com]

Over two days his guard never dropped, but he allowed a few fragments to emerge. He is an “ascetic,” he said. He lives off ramen noodles and chips. He has visitors, and many of them bring books. The books pile up, unread. The Internet is an endless library and a window on the progress of his cause.

Interesting, but not definitive.

Re:Enough (1)

vadim_t (324782) | about 4 months ago | (#45783335)

As far as I can tell, he lives off ramen because he has no money. [businessinsider.com], not because he's into martyrdom.

Re:Enough (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 4 months ago | (#45783419)

He described himself as "ascetic," not poor. That self-description would apply regardless of how much money he had.

Re:Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783561)

>He described himself as "ascetic," not poor.

Yeah? If I were subsisting on ramen, I'd come up with some bullshit rationalization for it too.

Re:Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783391)

Remember how the Soviets would lock up "counter-revolutionaries" as headcases?

Well, this is just the same, from a Western PoV: there can't possibly be anyone prepared to sacrifice themselves for the greater good in our glorious capitalist nation, so it must be a psychological illness.

And, just like the Soviets would, the American government wants this one locked away forever.

Re:Enough (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 4 months ago | (#45783479)

One way to separate out trolls from ordinary posts taking a contrary position is to read the parent post to see if the post in question answers a point in the parent post. A rationally stated point supported by related facts isn't a troll just because you disagree with it. If your primary basis for moderating down posts is that you simply disagree with the position, you don't support free debate as part of free speech. If you consistently act that way you are allying yourself with fascist principles.

Re:Enough (4, Insightful)

metlin (258108) | about 4 months ago | (#45783075)

I appreciate what Snowden is saying,

No, you really don't, as your comment below shows.

...but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him

Really? What have you done lately? Perhaps you should stop trolling and consider doing something more productive.

If you are calling a man who's sacrificed his future for the future of others a narcissist for airing his opinions, then you are nothing more than a jealous little man with nothing of value to add. Please go away.

Re: Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783099)

He says people want privacy but he's put himself in the public eye. Seems inconsistent.

No it's not enough (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783115)

Recognition of the deliberate destruction of civil liberties worldwide by agencies of the US and UK governments has only just begun. If you think that what we've heard so far is "enough", you clearly don't want the status quo to change. The process of reversal has barely started.

Snowden's message needs to be repeated again and again until we're thinking of it in our sleep, otherwise we're headed directly towards a dystopia of totalitarianism. Very powerful forces want exactly that, allied to others who can't think for themselves but are glad to obey and enforce compliance.

You are no credit to the world if you want Snowden's message silenced.

Re: Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783175)

Did anyone else notice the 'max headroom' style that this seemed to be aired in? Im unsure if it was actually him.

Re:Enough (1)

vux984 (928602) | about 4 months ago | (#45783177)

I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him

Is Snowden looking for the limelight, or is the media just hanging on his every word. Because really there's not really that much of him exposed, he doesn't say all that much at all. But there is a lot of exposure of what little there is. I think the media not Snowden should take the brunt of your distaste.

Hopefully he has the good sense not to make this about him. But I don't expect him to live a disconnected hermit life to avoid others trying to make it about him.

Re:Enough (1)

negRo_slim (636783) | about 4 months ago | (#45783235)

Your a fucking fool.

Re:Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783449)

Your a fucking fool.

My a fucking fool? Is that like an obscene garden gnome?

You're an illiterate tool.

Re:Enough (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783277)

He's not Jesus alright. For one, unlike Jesus, he actually exists and did something remarkable.

Re:Enough (0)

_KiTA_ (241027) | about 4 months ago | (#45783369)

I appreciate what Snowden is saying, but perhaps fewer narcissistic platitudes and more documents on the front pages? Snowden isn't Jesus, the more he toots "It's not about me", the more it becomes about him

It IS all about him. Him and his agent, Greenwald.

Snowden doesn't give two squirts of piss about what he found, merely that it got him the attention he felt he deserved. In addition, there were only so many cases of Greenwald pulling the "The Goverment could (possibly in my deranged mind) wiretap all phonecalls! Now, without any evidence at all, lets talk about this newly established fact that the Government is somehow tapping all phone calls, everywhere."

Follow that up with Greenwald acting like an AOL troll circa 1990 to anyone who calls him out on his bullshit (seriously, watch his twitter feed, it's like watching an 8 year old playing Journalist) and his "newspaper," The Guardian editing articles without retractions when they realize just how full of shit he is, and, well...

In a few years we'll all realize Greenwald and Snowden are mostly full of shit, for the time being, they make interesting sock puppets for the InfoWar style conspiracy nuts amongst us.

Re:Enough (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783409)

Well, if someone fscking picked up the ball, there would be no need for him to speak up again. But just like the hush machine stifled all information about the totally non-working, systematically broken secret quasi-oversight, now the "is he a traitor" distraction is fully working and fscking nobody articulates what the consequences and vision of a life without privacy are. The closest to a serious comment I have seen is what Pamela Jones wrote [groklaw.net] before shuttering Groklaw. [groklaw.net]

Short of that: nothing. I can't believe that humanity is so totally broken that Snowden was the only person with a conscience in the NSA (well, there are quite a few documented to have been silenced), and now is basically the only person telling people what privacy is about.

It's time the fscking sheep started doing some thinking for themselves, or he'll be better off trying to convince Russians about the value of freedom, privacy, and democratic control.

U.S. citizens clearly don't understand its value any more and are satisfied sinking further and further into despondency.

Re:Enough (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783431)

That and what he has been blabbering about has been long known, the NSA and the wide spying on Americans, an international spying ring, countries spying on there leaders/politicians or spying on other countries leaders/politicians.

Nothing about the other US spying agencies within the US or abroad, all he has talked about or given to newspapers/media outlets has been widely known going to WWI, if not further back. If he did give anything away of any worth to the public he would have been arrested by now and sent back to the US.

I also wonder if this isn't some experiment on the NSA/US governments part to see how US citizens would react as well as the rest of the worlds citizens, again these countries knew the where being spied on, and where spying themselves. And none of it was any deeply classified secret Jane and John public hadn't already known.

And the idiots who continue to believe he is some whistle blower for given away that which was already suspected and widely known, the terms the s**t for brains media, and the average citizen just throw out there to describe someone is at an all time high, lets recklessly throw terms and labels out there for anyone that has done s**t.

Re:Enough (2)

kheldan (1460303) | about 4 months ago | (#45783581)

What do you expect? He's becoming a cultural icon instead of just a government whistle-blower; he's being re-made by the public-at-large as the poster-child for surveillance on this planet. Under that sort of pressure do you think that you could remain unchanged by it, and more to the point, retain your humility? Most people would not, humans being humans. Ignore the "tone" of what he said there, and just concentrate on the message, because he's right: Corporate culture and governments are indoctrinating the newer generations to believe that privacy is something sought after only by criminals and others who are doing something to be ashamed of, and that it's right and normal to "share" everything about your life with everyone. I can't even begin to imagine how much this is going to damage the psyche of humanity over the long term because it is not normal or natural to live that way.

Maybe its just me (2)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 4 months ago | (#45782865)

but snooping on phone calls and facebook is a tad far off from mind reading

Re:Maybe its just me (1)

russotto (537200) | about 4 months ago | (#45782957)

but snooping on phone calls and facebook is a tad far off from mind reading

Yeah, just wait for the next document release.

Easy answer (-1, Troll)

cold fjord (826450) | about 4 months ago | (#45782867)

A child born today will grow up with no conception of privacy at all. They'll never know what it means to have a private moment to themselves — an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought.

Easy answer: Little kids don't get computers or cable TV in the room. They can leave the Gameboy, phone, and tablet at home, and go for a walk, or to the park to play.

Ed really should try leaving his desk from time to time.

Re:Easy answer (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45782889)

Getting paid overtime to shill on Christmas or are you whoring yourself out for free today?

Re:Easy answer (5, Insightful)

The_Deacon (137827) | about 4 months ago | (#45782915)

...and be surveilled on CCTV while they walk to/from the park on public sidewalks, and be surveilled yet again by cameras installed at the park.

Ed's point stands.

Re: Easy answer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783271)

Not having privacy while on public property is not something to complain about, it's the definition of being in a public place.

Re: Easy answer (3, Insightful)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | about 4 months ago | (#45783291)

No, it isn't. Even in public places, you have some degree of privacy.

And mass surveillance is far, far different from some random person seeing you in a public place. I don't think they should even be compared. Privacy in regards to someone seeing you in a public place and privacy in regards to mass surveillance are two different things.

Re:Easy answer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45782953)

Not quite the correct answer, but I don't let my kids have technology in their room. No tv, cell phones, computers or otherwise.

Re:Easy answer (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 4 months ago | (#45782969)

That is wise. I hope you plan to supervise their computer use as they get older, and keep an eye on the games they play. They will complain, but it is the right thing to do. Good luck raising them.

Re:Easy answer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783213)

Until they complain about the amount of surveillance their parents perform and the fact they live in a prison family, but thats Ok because you have their safety in mind. No Government terrorist will be able to stalk them.

Re:Easy answer (1)

vadim_t (324782) | about 4 months ago | (#45782971)

Yes, easy answer: if you don't like the government sticking their nose in your private life, just become a hermit!

Ed really should try leaving his desk from time to time.

You should take that advice too, are you being paid overtime for this, by chance?

Re:Easy answer (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 4 months ago | (#45783025)

It isn't good for children to always have their noses stuck in a computer of some sort. There are plenty of other things they should be doing. That hardly constitutes being a "hermit."

As to the rest of your post, it would be more convincing if it was posted tomorrow. And I could ask you the same question.

Re:Easy answer (1)

vadim_t (324782) | about 4 months ago | (#45783093)

It isn't good for children to always have their noses stuck in a computer of some sort. There are plenty of other things they should be doing. That hardly constitutes being a "hermit."

Which does nothing to disprove Snowden's point. One can use a computer and still go outside, you know.

As to the rest of your post, it would be more convincing if it was posted tomorrow. And I could ask you the same question.

Unlike Americans, I don't have anything to celebrate on this day. I keep celebrating the way I did in the days of the Soviet Union, on December 31st. The Russian Orthodox Church sticks to the Julian calendar and celebrates on January 7, anyway.

Re:Easy answer (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 4 months ago | (#45783179)

Ah, marvelous. There are Russian Orthodox churches in the US that maintain the Orthodox traditions, such as Saint Nicholas Russian Orthodox [saintnicho...hedral.org] in Seattle.

I wish you a happy post-Soviet joyously Orthodox Christmas in the Russian tradition.

Re:Easy answer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783205)

Worked really well for Randy Weaver, and for the Branch Davidians...

Re:Easy answer (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783107)

and go for a walk, or to the park to play.

...where the government's cameras can watch their every move?

Is it true that the UK has the most street-oriented, government "owned & operated" cameras in the world? I would like to see a citation here.

Sounds kinda strange for a country that claims to be part of 'the free world" doesn't it?

captcha: scotch

Re:Easy answer (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 4 months ago | (#45783217)

The "surveillance" part should always be a concern given the potential to turn into more. But I don't think you can really claim unqualified totalitarianism unless there is actual repression tied into it, especially political repression, rather than law enforcement against mugging and rape. Still, it is something that a free society has to be mindful of, and guard against so that surveillance doesn't turn into totalitarianism. And it is certainly good to maintain privacy when possible.

Re:Easy answer (1)

houghi (78078) | about 4 months ago | (#45783475)

You missed the 'growing up' part. And those kids ARE being monitored and followed. Even if they do not have any device that can be tracked with them, they will be seen by Google Glass. They will be seen by CCTV. They will be responding to be in the park with friends. Their moms and dads will tell grandma they will take the kid to the park.

And if you think that this is just about walking outside, then you have no concept about what privacy is.

In Europe, privacy is much more elaborate. e.g. no mug shots of people who were arrested because of privacy reasons (Yes, I understand why it is possible in the USofA.)

Privacy is different of what it used to be and what we think it was. This because of recording. e.g. when you used to do something stupid when you were young, your friends would know. You were drunk and you learned a lesson not to do such a thing anymore.
Perhaps a few times they will laugh about it and repeat it during your wedding. That is the end.

Now when you do it, it will not only be recorded. It will be put online. It will be searchable by others that you have no influence over. And if you do something that becomes illegal later, you are screwed.

Changing your opinion? Not possible as it was recorded.

Must be great living in a world where you are afraid of what you might do wrong, without knwing what it was. Talk to people who have lived in countries that have been followed. I have. Being at a public IT meeting and the person asks to turni the camera's off so he can give some more details about what he is working on is impressive. Not being able to ask that as the camera's are always running is frightening.

The power is (not will be) abused. Look at your kid playing in the park and think if you want your kid to grow up in that fear or if watching TV is more important.

Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (5, Insightful)

bogaboga (793279) | about 4 months ago | (#45782881)

Just think about it for a sec...

If an Iranian or Russian version of Snowden had defected to the [mighty] USA, we would be trumpeting our "superior" system and way-of-life as compared to "those other nations."

We would be saying we're glad to be living here where ther's the "rule of law" yada yada yada...

But because he was one of us, our government is instead labeling him as a traitor. Sadly, a good number of Americans don't see the hipocrisy!!

Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45782907)

'Murica!! Fuck yeah!!

Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (1)

Trepidity (597) | about 4 months ago | (#45782941)

That's because they're bad, so defecting from them is good, whereas we're good, so defecting from us is bad. :)

Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783133)

It's all a bit difficult, in the sense that you actually need to think.

In the old cold war style of thinking it was much easier: Us => Right. Them => Bad. It wasn't true then either, but you could get away thinking that way. Today it's still not true. However now you can't get away with that kind of sloppy thinking, and that of course makes things much harder.

Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783353)

Us => Right. Them => Bad. It wasn't true then either, but you could get away thinking that way.

I suggest you learn a bit more about the Soviet Union by taking 10 minutes out of your life to start correcting an enormous misconception that will significantly warp your thinking if you don't correct it. Watch this documentary film trailer [youtube.com]. I suggest watching the whole documentary when you can. This Russian documentary [youtube.com] would be good too. This book [amazon.com] would also be good. If you think the West, including the US, was anything like an approximation of the Soviet Union, you are very badly misinformed. It is almost unbelievable that anyone could make a mistake of that magnitude.

Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (2)

Dunbal (464142) | about 4 months ago | (#45783261)

And of course you're "good" because that's where you happened to be born and raised, whereas someone not born and raised there knows that actually, you are "bad". Everything is subjective. I do know, however, that what I do in my own time, where I go, the things I buy, and the semi-private conversations and opinions I share with people on and off the internet ARE NO ONE ELSE'S FUCKING BUSINESS. Snooping on people is not only illegal in most parts of the world, it's also rude and highly unethical. But it looks like ethics died a long, long time ago in the US government, probably at the same time as all this new PC false "morality" was born.

Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783167)

If anyone even tried to publish any documents belonging to the Soviet (sorry, Russian) secret services... Remember what happened to Litvinenko? I can assure you, potential FSB whistle-blowers do.

Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | about 4 months ago | (#45783191)

It's all about intent. And, like everything else, you can't legislate for intent.

Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783195)

I respect what Snowden has done in defense of Americans right to privacy, but I find his disclosure of the methods used by the NSA to spy on foreign countries to be treasonous.

Sadly many Americans do not see the difference between these two actions

Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783281)

It's not treasonous. Without this sort of a black eye they weren't going to stop. It was only a few years ago that nobody knew that there were extra-judicial courts offering up warrants after the surveillance was done with very low requirements.

If you want treason, why not start prosecuting all those GOP numbnuts that signed that fealty pledge to Grover Norquist? That's definitely seditious, whereas catching the government breaking it's own constitution and generally betraying the American people isn't.

Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783445)

"Without this sort of a black eye they weren't going to stop. It was only a few years ago that nobody knew "

you are either very naive or stupid

He's going to come out of this a hero. (2)

Animats (122034) | about 4 months ago | (#45783301)

Both Fox News [foxnews.com] and The Washington Post [washingtonpost.com] are reporting favorably on Snowden. Congress and the courts are acting on his revelations. He's changed the world a little, probably for the better.

Re:He's going to come out of this a hero. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783397)

Fox News and the NY Times have the exact same agenda; it's all about the benjamins. If he had reported on only the domestic wiretapping, he would have been a hero. Here is merely a narcicistic traitor, attacking the U.S. Nothing more. Simple question: Did he follow *any* of the available methods for whistleblowers that would not have (deliberately) damaged international relations? Where was the "if you don't do something about this, Mr. Senator, I will reveal this publicly? Nope, not there, and it would have been legal. Let the muslims extremists behead him; that's who he's truly helping.

Re:Now if the shoe was on the other foot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783603)

Sadly, a good number of Americans don't see the hipocrisy!!

That's not hypocrisy, that's symmetry.

no privacy in your own thought..? (1)

strstr (539330) | about 4 months ago | (#45782933)

government knows so much about the public that they have essentially got the hidden ability to mind control society. control all information, providing us misinformation to hide the truth and manipulate people, keeping us all in the dark to the truth of what's really occurring through use of illegal surveillance. they keep society weak by enforcing the laws to protect the corporations and grant them the ability to do wage enslavement, to control access to things they can fight with like education, healthcare, housing, and food, and keeping the truth hidden so we cannot make informed decisions about what is really happening. meanwhile, we all suffer, and live by their rule.

Also, the government takes this a step further: they love it when you pour your life out into a telephone and Facebook message, so they can monitor everything you're doing, so they know exactly how to manipulate and control you. they also have a vast network of satellites and remote sensing technology, that allows cellular, WiFi, and mind reading tech to work. they literally can tap your mind, extract any thought or memory, and stay on top of any situation. the outsiders have no idea that we're truly being controlled that well. technology / SIGINT details, dozens of NRO and ELINT satellites, Strategic Defense Initiative details (energy weapons, with ability to target humans, etc), and Remote Neural Monitoring details/patent information at: http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/russelltice-nsarnmebl.html [oregonstatehospital.net]

We only think we have civil rights and freedoms. If they can do it all in secret, we got nothing. It is a true police/military state right now! This is exactly the way the game is being played.

Re:no privacy in your own thought..? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45782977)

Also, the government takes this a step further: they love it when you pour your life out into a telephone and Facebook message, so they can monitor everything you're doing,so they know exactly how to manipulate and control you.

So Slick Barry's responsible for the Pokemon Bank?

Thanks, Obama! Seriously. Imma finally catch them all.

Re:no privacy in your own thought..? (3, Interesting)

strstr (539330) | about 4 months ago | (#45783017)

Watch the NSA Whistleblower Russell Tice videos on my website. Link provided in first post.

"they doing this to control people"

Link again: http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/russelltice-nsarnmebl.html [oregonstatehospital.net]

Re:no privacy in your own thought..? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783289)

Your web site makes you sound psychotic. Perhaps you need to up your meds?

405 W Centennial, that's your mom's house, right? Doesn't look like it has a basement, so you must "hangout" in the garage with the door locked so mom doesn't catch you wanking...

Re:no privacy in your own thought..? (1)

strstr (539330) | about 4 months ago | (#45783329)

No, the US government makes people sound psychotic. They abuse people with energy weapons, fuck people up, then leave them for dead without a lot of way to get help. There are thousands of victims out there, and this has been talked about in the Washington Post article Mind Games. Another good website is Freedom From Covert Harassment and Surveillance.

Our government has invented weapons to attack people remotely, and they are the ones doing this to people.

an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought. (1)

Culture20 (968837) | about 4 months ago | (#45782967)

Children have millions of these before they ever use an electronic gewgaw.

Re:an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783169)

That's the 1900s your thinking about. Make an image search with keywords baby tablet or something along those lines. Soon we all will get a fucking google chip in our brains the moment we're born...

Re:an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783197)

Ever seen a two year old use an iPad? I have. Poke poke poke and now they're watching $kiddies-program-here

Re:an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought. (4, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | about 4 months ago | (#45783269)

Some children have baby monitors in their room from birth, gps trackers by the time they are toddlers if not before. They graduate to playing with an tablet that starts collecting information on them by 4 or 5, and a few more years after that and they've got a cell phone tracking nearly every move and social interaction.

Maybe not you or your children. But its absolutely true that full surveillance from birth is a thing now.

As parents its an interesting conundrum choosing between the security of a toddler gps and the knowledge that doing so actively prevents your child from ever being properly alone or even possibly lost. And as parents, I feel that as terrifying as that is for both child and parent, the possibility of being lost is a NECESSARY part of growing up and being an independent responsible person. They need that sense of being able to get lost; even if they don't actually get lost.

We elected not to track the kids, and to give them more space than many of their peers have.

But I know of many families where the kids have no real privacy at all, ever. If they write in their diary, their parents will have read it. If they have a box they keep special things in their parents will have have rooted through it.

  I wouldn't be above searching their room and belongings if I had a concern, but I'd have to have a genuine concern to do that invasion of privacy. I think all kids need *some* privacy, and increasingly more as they get older, and many do not get it.

But whenever they've gone outside to play and they've wandered off with friends or whatever and aren't where they are supposed to be and forgot to check in with us... well... I completely get the fear that rises up and leads some parents to go what i think is completely overboard.

It's not the governments... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783065)

It's the commercial enterprises to which we are "voluntarily" surrendering ourselves.

"SPYING?!?!11! OMG!!1! I'm going to use gmail and twitter to tell all my friends about this!! Maybe there will be a documentary about it on Netflix! Or Amazon Prime!"

The most telling thing about Snowden is his "escape" to the bastions of Freedom (tm): China and Russia. Yes, he can now shake hands with that beacon of freedom, ex(?)-KGB officer Vladimir Putin.

Slavery mentality in the USA still very strong (0)

HansKloss (665474) | about 4 months ago | (#45783079)

Are you surprised to see complete disrespect of privacy laws?

Too many previous slave owners and their descendants still lives and have say in politics. It was serious error by US population not to charge them with crimes and let them keep the wealth acquired by using slave labor.
Today that money are being used heavily in politics to induce laws to enslave people's digital lives and treat us like objects: credit agencies, info-search databases, social security numbers etc.
Privacy is treated as something that can be converted to dollar figure.

This "slavery mentality" must change or eliminated before we can talk about keeping our lives private.

Re:Slavery mentality in the USA still very strong (1)

mc6809e (214243) | about 4 months ago | (#45783243)

Too many previous slave owners and their descendants still lives and have say in politics. It was serious error by US population not to charge them with crimes and let them keep the wealth acquired by using slave labor.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about.

According to the 1850 census, there were 347,525 slave owners in the United States out of a free population of nearly 20,000,000. Many of those were killed, and those that lived have few descendants relative to the total population today. There are probably 10 times as many descendants of slaves as there are descendants of slave owners.

And much of their wealth wasn't preserved. Much of it was in the form of slaves, which were freed and the rest of their wealth was mostly destroyed during the war. Union troops were ordered to destroy as much as they could. Even collective wealth like the libraries of public universities were burned.

Re:Slavery mentality in the USA still very strong (1)

HansKloss (665474) | about 4 months ago | (#45783417)

All it takes is 1% of surviving owners placed within state or federal structures. And you don't have too look very far. Just look at prominent politicians from South Carolina and their beliefs.
Somehow slavery legacy still lives on. Since physical enslavement is almost impossible, there is wide acceptance or perhaps general ignorance for various forms of enslaving fellow humans.

Dear Slashdot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783089)

You told us this twice yesterday.

Signed,

The Internet

FUCK YOU CHANNEL 4 (1)

Latinhypercube (935707) | about 4 months ago | (#45783193)

...and FUCK YOU CHANNEL 4 for blocking the video around the world you BAGS OF SHIT.

Re:FUCK YOU CHANNEL 4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783337)

I found a copy of the video on Vimeo. There's download links too.
I wont bother linking to it since it's prolly taken down soon anyways. Point is the video is out there,
all we need to do is look for it,

Search [startpage.com]
  or
Search [duckduckgo.com]

Re:FUCK YOU CHANNEL 4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783503)

Learn to link properly you fucking moron. Those links lead to "Startpage" and "DuckDuckGo", so why use some ambiguous "Search or Search"??

snowden is a dead man (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783209)

to many Americans

There is something terribly wrong... (2)

PNP_Transistor (1398577) | about 4 months ago | (#45783251)

... with this country, isn’t there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who’s to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you’re looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn’t be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.

Re:There is something terribly wrong... (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 4 months ago | (#45783463)

you still have the freedom to say what you want, just remember everyone else has the freedom to hate you for it

...because privacy matters (Freedom from Fear) (2)

shoor (33382) | about 4 months ago | (#45783293)

"...because privacy matters. Privacy is what allows us to determine who we are and who we want to be."

Y'know, when I read that, for some reason the first thing I thought of was James Brown, the singer/composer/dancer. I watched a documentary about him once, and remember that as a child, he would go off by himself and be in his own head. I think that's where a lot of his creativity came from. Maybe I just identified with that and maybe a lot of people don't care. But yes, I think privacy matters.

Looked at from a different point of view, I remember reading, as a layman, about a hypothesis of Darwinism that many big changes in evolution came from isolated, what one might call protected, environments where something analogous to human activies of design and 'working out the bugs' could happen.

Isn't one of the 4 freedoms supposed to be 'Freedom from Fear'? I think there's always a little bit of fear, or at least anxiety, when you don't have privacy.

Lies and fatuity. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783341)

The summary picked the right quote to illustrate the message. As far as I know, the NSA hasn't been doing mind reading, and people do get private moments to themselves. There aren't cameras and microphones in every room of every house. But the best one is this: "And that's a problem, because privacy matters." A completely hollow statement.

It would be better if the whistleblower didn't have the wit of a 14 year-old.

Re:Lies and fatuity. (2)

strstr (539330) | about 4 months ago | (#45783359)

Haven't you heard of SIgnals Intelligence? They don't need cameras and microphones to watch and hear you in your house. And they can read your mind with remote brain-computer interfaces, capturing the evoked potentials of your neurons, decoding the signals, to see what you see, hear, think, feel, dream, remember, and all your sensations and motor commands can be recorded, too. There is even a patent from1998 that covers all this.

In addition to that, if Signals Intelligence points their satellites at your house, they can capture the emissions from your electronics, TV, keyboards, and cellular devices, basically to see what is on your screens, what you type, and communicate through encrypted cellular signals, and more.

Tech links: http://www.oregonstatehospital.net/d/russelltice-nsarnmebl.html [oregonstatehospital.net]

NSA Whistleblower Russell Tice backs it up, at least the space weapons/capability issue in the videos there listed on the site.

They are reading your thoughts by monitoring all your telephone and Facebook communications, as well. He says what he means, this is what they're really doing.

Dramatic nonsense. (1, Flamebait)

argStyopa (232550) | about 4 months ago | (#45783461)

"...They'll never know what it means to have a private moment to themselves â" an unrecorded, unanalyzed thought..."

Bullshit. This is just drama-queen nonsense right here.

No, their complaints aren't private...because they post them immediately to Facebook, snapchat them to someone else, or can't help but tweet their latest crisis to their 465 followers. Surprise, announcing your private thoughts and feelings to hundreds if not thousands makes it unlikely your thought is "private".

Today, any person can have a "private moment". They can have "private thoughts". There are even lots of opportunities for actual privacy, and they're pretty much all the same ways people have done these things through the centuries (unless you choose to avail yourself of modern communications).

To claim otherwise is pure histrionics.

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