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EU Committee Issues Report On NSA Surveillance; Snowden To Testify

Unknown Lamer posted about a year ago | from the everybody's-doing-it dept.

EU 177

Qedward writes with word that the EU Parliament's Civil Liberties Committee published the draft of their report on the impact of dragnet surveillance by the NSA on EU citizens (PDF). Quoting CIO: "... Members of the European Parliament say that it is 'very doubtful that data collection of such magnitude is only guided by the fight against terrorism,' and that there may be other motives such as political and economic espionage. The document urges EU countries to take legal action against the breach of their sovereignty perpetrated through such mass surveillance programs." The same committee voted today to allow Edward Snowden to testify before them in a special hearing.

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Snowden likes to be raped by horses (-1, Flamebait)

slashdot sucks cock (3492225) | about a year ago | (#45907645)

Slashdot, news for fucking bastards, stuff thats fucked up the ass

Re:Snowden likes to be raped by horses (1)

geekoid (135745) | about a year ago | (#45907681)

The internet has grown up, and you should to.

Re:Snowden likes to be raped by horses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907769)

grown-ups know how2too

GET GEEKOID SALVE FOR TEH SICK BURN (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907905)


 

Re:Snowden likes to be raped by horses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907891)

Slashdot, news for fucking bastards, stuff thats fucked up the ass

News for bastards, huh? You were the first one that hopped on this article.

Re:Snowden likes to be raped by horses (1)

koan (80826) | about a year ago | (#45908027)

And you're giving him/her what he/she wants.

Re:Snowden likes to be raped by horses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909495)

And you're giving it [urbandictionary.com] what it [urbandictionary.com] wants.

FTFY

Re:Snowden likes to be raped by horses (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909437)

And so does Lindsey Graham likes it too.

Much like Galileo (0, Flamebait)

CajunArson (465943) | about a year ago | (#45907657)

The conclusion of the EU report will be: IT'S NOT FAIR! How come those degeneration AMERICANS get to have all the spying! We'll build our OWN spy network... with blackjack! and hookers!

In fact, just push back the start of the spy network while doubling the budget every couple of years or so and let us have the hookers now!

Perhaps (5, Interesting)

pablo_max (626328) | about a year ago | (#45907843)

Perhaps the EU members will think that.
However, there is a major difference between say, Germany and America. The difference is, the German public will freak out and actually take to the streets.
I am reasonably sure that Germany would exit the EU if such a program was installed.
Same is true for France. They say that France is one of the few countries who does democracy right. The government is scared shitless of the people. Not the other way around like in the US where people fear their government. Hell, in France they will burn an entire city over a small issue.
Of course in England, they are even more willing to give up their rights than Americans.

Re:Perhaps (4, Informative)

Alain Williams (2972) | about a year ago | (#45907907)

Of course in England, they are even more willing to give up their rights than Americans.

Some of us are apathetic, the rest are incensed are to how our government is acting as the USA's poodle.

Re:Perhaps (4, Insightful)

davester666 (731373) | about a year ago | (#45909501)

I think you have that reversed.

Some of us are incensed, the rest are apathetic to how our government is acting as the USA's poodle.

Re:Perhaps (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#45908177)

I am reasonably sure that Germany would exit the EU if such a program was installed.

The German Prism: Berlin Wants to Spy Too [spiegel.de]

Same is true for France. They say that France is one of the few countries who does democracy right.

France - Alarm over massive spying provisions in new military programming law [trust.org]

Hell, in France they will burn an entire city over a small issue.

You're getting warm.

Some 1,067 cars set ablaze across France on New Year's Eve [english.rfi.fr]
France's Less Joyous New Year's Tradition [nytimes.com]

More than 40,000 vehicles are burned each year in France...

Any ideas on what might be going on? (I don't want to issue a spoiler just yet.)

Re:Perhaps (5, Interesting)

pablo_max (626328) | about a year ago | (#45908941)

I am reasonably sure that Germany would exit the EU if such a program was installed.

I did not say that the German government did not WANT to spy. Sure they do. All governments want to spy, be they western or not.
The point is, the population would freak out if it actually came out that the government was spying on every German and what they did.

Look, I will be the first to admit it. Germans are about the stingiest people I ever met. I have only lived here for about 5 years, but that much is clear. "Hey, why don't you have a clothes dryer?". response: "Why should I pay 200€ for what the sun does for free!" Classic German thinking. Save save save save. That is a good thing though.
Now, I know 3 different people who have canceled their family trips to the US over this matter. These are already paid for trip with no chance to get the money back.
The fact is, they are afraid of the US government. They are afraid that the TSA will confiscate their notebooks because the agent would like to have a new one. Or copy all their private information.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/18/tsa-to-download-your-itunes/ [washingtontimes.com]

Re:Perhaps (3, Insightful)

WilliamBaughman (1312511) | about a year ago | (#45909797)

Have you visited the Stasi museum in Leipzig? I've been and I recommend it. I think those people you know have good reason to be outraged at the spying revelations and cancel their trips beyond the fear that the TSA will confiscate their property, intrude on their documents, or abuse them.

Re:Perhaps (1)

matbury (3458347) | about a year ago | (#45908211)

France is just as bad if not worse than the US: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/04/france-electronic-spying-operation-nsa [theguardian.com]

Private US subcontractors have been developing dragnet surveillance products and services from their experiences of dealing with the NSA and selling them on the global market. Now most countries' security agencies have these technologies and systems and are using them on their own populations.

We are all suspects. We are all subject to warrantless search and seizure. We have no right privacy. We have no right to political dissent. We must obey and comply or risk being labelled thought criminals. Donating to legitimate charities that security agencies don't approve of has become thought crime, e.g. helping to alleviate poverty in Gaza. Just keep your heads down and don't complain or they're come after you.

Re:Perhaps (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908921)

We are all suspects.

Why do the guilty always say that?...

We are all subject to warrantless search and seizure.

We've already obtained plenty enough material for the Judge to issue a warrant, so it would just be a formality anyway.

We have no right privacy.

I see.

We have no right to political dissent.

Careful, that kindda talk could get you in a *lot* of trouble...

We must obey and comply or risk being labelled thought criminals.

What we got here is failure to communicate. What part of "Party Line" don't you understand, boy?

(sorry, just kidding - couldn't resist. ;-)

Re:Perhaps (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908395)

Same is true for France. They say that France is one of the few countries who does democracy right. The government is scared shitless of the people.

What? France has already pubicly stated that they are jealous of the NSA and are going to do their damnedest to catch up and surpass them in spying powers.

Re:Perhaps (1)

Arker (91948) | about a year ago | (#45908403)

"Same is true for France."

That seems doubtful. French 'intelligence' is just as bad as the NSA, but without having to break their law to do it.

Re:Perhaps (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | about a year ago | (#45908465)

Of course in England, they are even more willing to give up their rights than Americans.

Are there any English-speaking countries that don't suck like that?

Re:Perhaps (2)

ImOuttaHere (2996813) | about a year ago | (#45908709)

Perhaps the EU members will think that. However, there is a major difference between say, Germany and America. The difference is, the German public will freak out and actually take to the streets. I am reasonably sure that Germany would exit the EU if such a program was installed. Same is true for France. They say that France is one of the few countries who does democracy right. The government is scared shitless of the people. Not the other way around like in the US where people fear their government. Hell, in France they will burn an entire city over a small issue. Of course in England, they are even more willing to give up their rights than Americans.

Exactly!

Further, Germany and France use physical assets to do the bulk of their spying. Not that they don't need or use electronic spying, too. It's just that physical assets are much better at targeting the actual, real "bad guys" than, well, America's three letter agencies seem to credit them with.

Re:Perhaps (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909507)

The big issue with the US is that it is the only civilized country that allows foreign actors to donate and directly influence elections, either via direct donations or "anonymous" donors.

Every other country, someone stuffing dollars in a politician's war chest would result in someone visiting a prison for a long time.

Re:Perhaps (1)

Quila (201335) | about a year ago | (#45909619)

I believe it was O2 that gave a little information to the German police without a warrant in the 90s. There was a total public shit fit.

Re:Much like Galileo (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907863)

actually this is about the US stealing our economy and basically doing insider-trading/pre-knowledge trading, basically the US could face billions if not trillions of dollars in international sanctions (which will end up back where it belongs, in Europe)...
so once again, do some research before you say something retarded.

EU to grow balls, News at 11 (5, Insightful)

zlives (2009072) | about a year ago | (#45907677)

nope false alert, not gonna happen.

Re:EU to grow balls, News at 11 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907753)

Maybe they have too much France in them?

so says (5, Insightful)

pablo_max (626328) | about a year ago | (#45908099)

So says the man from America. The country who's population literally could not care less that their own government is spying on them as well AND systematically removing their rights and dismantling their constitution.
But you go on and talk about how stupid and cowardly we in the EU are. After all, we can see how strong your back bone is. After all, it is not we who have the backbones to bomb brown people "into freedom".

Re:so says (3, Insightful)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#45908539)

After all, it is not we who have the backbones to bomb brown people "into freedom".

As in Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, and Syria?

Here is a tip for you. Over the years, Europeans, just like Americans and various Asian nations, have demonstrated their willingness to bomb people of all colors for many reasons, including to make their lands a colony, and lately to free them. It is happening right now.

Your sense of superiority is based on mistaken ideas, bad history, and bile.

Re:so says (1)

no_go (96797) | about a year ago | (#45908667)

Inferiority complex much ?

Re:so says (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#45908703)

LOL. Hardly. LOL

Re:so says (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908819)

Your sense of superiority is based on mistaken ideas, bad history, and bile.

No, his sense of superiority is based on the OP acting with a sense of superiority in the first place, being condescending towards Europe ("EU to grow balls")

In other words, it's self defense.

Re:so says (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908635)

Who "literally cares less" and who realizes to rise up against that is to rise up against the #1 military/surveillance power directly?

Re:so says (1)

ImOuttaHere (2996813) | about a year ago | (#45908791)

So says the man from America. The country who's population literally could not care less that their own government is spying on them as well AND systematically removing their rights and dismantling their constitution. But you go on and talk about how stupid and cowardly we in the EU are. After all, we can see how strong your back bone is. After all, it is not we who have the backbones to bomb brown people "into freedom".

I wish I had mod points. I'd mod this up as far as I could.

From my perspective, you're absolutely right! What you point out are some of the reasons why a few of us left Amerika to experience real freedoms that can be found overseas. Not the fake freedoms that Amerika loves to blather on about, but not lift a finger to defend when they're taken away.

Re:so says (1)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | about a year ago | (#45909425)

So where did you go?

Re:so says (1)

yahwotqa (817672) | about a year ago | (#45909729)

I know you didn't mean it that way, but why would anyone lift a finger when their _fake_ freedoms are being taken away? :)

Re:so says (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909215)

I'm assuminig your native language is Spanish so I'll give you a tip: don't practice English by reading the internet, half these morons are barely literate and you'll wind up making mistakes that make you look uneducated. An example is " The country who's population". "Who's" is a contraction for "who is", the word you want is "whose".

Re:so says (1)

zlives (2009072) | about a year ago | (#45909245)

Clearly I care, other wise we would not be having this discussion. I merely point out the leashed dog mentality of the EU when it comes to anything US wants. I hope that EU (well minus UK anyway) will do something. And by something i mean other then GCHQ, BND blah blah in competition with NSA as to who can exploit their citizens better... because as everyone already knows : we are #1, USA USA blah blah

Re:so says (1)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | about a year ago | (#45909401)

If you spent 5 whole minutes actually reading Slashdot lately, you'd see that a lot of us DO care about the government spying etc. etc. etc. "Caring" and "getting it fixed" are obviously two entirely different things.

Re:so says (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909727)

EU, the region which didn't give a damn about human rights. Look at the Holocaust and the Nazis

Re:EU to grow balls, News at 11 (1)

hazeii (5702) | about a year ago | (#45908365)

Haven't read the report, have we?

Re:EU to grow balls, News at 11 (1)

zlives (2009072) | about a year ago | (#45909271)

Actually i was questioning the follow through, heck even B.O's panel told him to curb the NSA

Re:EU to grow balls, News at 11 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908905)

Progress in the matters of economy and security require trust and mutual understanding. What the US does can't be understood, and thereby not trusted. Economic progress stagnates, and the Asian economies collect the scraps. Mutual security suffers as the flow of relevant information is restricted. The idea of EU growing balls, however, has been a possibility only since the Lisbon treaty, when the EU became a legal person.

Wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907683)

This will surely be as meaningful and effective as most U.N. committee meetings.

For the sarcasmically challenged, I mean not at all.

Where? (0)

snarfies (115214) | about a year ago | (#45907715)

I'm no expert in EU politics, but I know they meets in Brussels (Belgium), Luxembourg and Strasbourg (France), per Wikipedia. I also know, despite being a dumb amerikkkan, that none of those places are in Russia. Snowden will absolutely be captured if he appears in any of these places and would be a great fool to testify there.

Re:Where? (4, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#45907737)

Snowden will absolutely be captured if he appears in any of these places and would be a great fool to testify there.

Or, if they're going to have him testify, they have diplomats collect him and bring him in on a plain covered by immunity, move him around in diplomatic cars, and house him in diplomatic residences.

Do you *really* think that it is impossible to basically "fuck you" and bring him there safely if there's the political will?

remotely? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907831)

Couldn't he testify remotely?

Re:remotely? (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#45907879)

Couldn't he testify remotely?

Nah, the Americans could tap into it. ;-)

The real tin-foil-hatters would say the US has injected a CG images into the stream to make him say different things. :-P

Re:remotely? (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about a year ago | (#45908729)

The real tin-foil-hatters would say the US has injected a CG images into the stream to make him say different things. :-P

Hey, they have all the technology needed to do it, it's just a matter of whether they want to.

Re:remotely? (1)

BosstonesOwn (794949) | about a year ago | (#45907899)

No way , it's not like broadband is every where in Russia, and Skype is not even remotely a possibility !

The real question is , will Microsoft shut down Skype for the NSA so he can't testify ?

Re:Where? (1)

snarfies (115214) | about a year ago | (#45907957)

Yes, in fact, I do. Political will tends to fade pretty quickly on the wrong end of a gun barrel.

Re:Where? (2)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#45908059)

Yes, in fact, I do. Political will tends to fade pretty quickly on the wrong end of a gun barrel.

If America is going to choose to 'point a gun' at the entire EU, then you can pretty much expect the entire EU to kick the US out of military bases, and generally GTFO of town.

The EU also has their own guns.

Re:Where? (4, Interesting)

Grishnakh (216268) | about a year ago | (#45908567)

It's worse than that. The EU is where the US gets its guns from, because the US is too incompetent to make its own guns any more. Most police departments use Glocks, which come from Austria, and the US military is going to use an H-K rifle from Germany for their next-generation assault rifle. The US military already uses the Beretta M-9 for its standard sidearm: Beretta is an Italian company. All the best guns come from the EU (or Switzerland, which is surrounded by the EU): FAL in Belgium with their P90 submachine gun and F2000 rifle (standard rifle used by many countries' armies including Pakistan), H-K in Germany with their MP5 submachine gun used by lots of militaries and police departments including probably every US SWAT team, Glock in Austria, SIG in Switzerland, HS in Croatia, Steyr in Britain, I'm sure there's lots more. The US gunmakers mostly only make historical replicas (e.g. Colt 45s from the 1800s) and copies of aging and obsolete guns like the 1911 and the AR-15. When they want something new and innovative, they import it from Europe and rebadge it (like the Springfield XD series, made by HS in Croatia).

Re:Where? (1)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about a year ago | (#45909463)

aging and obsolete guns like the 1911 and the AR-15.

Whoa there! While I generally agree with much of the rest your post, them's fighting words! The M4 is still one of the most versatile and proven families of military rifles currently in use. It's come a long way since the old Vietnam-era M16's/AR-15's.

Re:Where? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909593)

Doesn't FN Herstal manufacture it for the Army now, under license?

Re:Where? (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about a year ago | (#45909825)

It's still cursed with the direct-impingement system of operation (except for the variants that replaced that with a gas piston, but those are not common or normal, and are usually high-priced), which makes it extremely vulnerable to malfunctions if it isn't kept meticulously clean. That's not a good trait for a battle rifle.

The H&K G36, SIG 550, FN F2000, Steyr and others are all far superior weapons.

Re:Where? (3, Informative)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year ago | (#45908013)

Or, if they're going to have him testify, they have diplomats collect him and bring him in on a plain covered by immunity, move him around in diplomatic cars, and house him in diplomatic residences.

The last time they thought that he was on a plane protected by diplomatic immunity, they grounded it and searched it [nbcnews.com] at the request of the United States. That's also why Julian Assange is still stuck in the Ecuadorian embassy in London: The UK authorities have made it clear that they will pull him out of a diplomatic vehicle if they try to transport him to Ecuador.

Re:Where? (1)

nmr_andrew (1997772) | about a year ago | (#45909423)

Aside from the fact that he'll be testifying remotely, the plane that they grounded that time was headed to somewhere in Latin America (Cuba or Ecuador I think). Do you really think the US would be allowed ground and search a plane anywhere in Europe that's chartered in and bound for an EU country?

Re:Where? (5, Informative)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year ago | (#45909693)

the plane that they grounded that time was headed to somewhere in Latin America (Cuba or Ecuador I think).

That would be Bolivia. Which, since it was Bolivian President Evo Morales's plane, is about as serious a diplomatic violation as you can get (imagine Russia or China grounding Air Force One and searching it).

Re:Where? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908089)

they have diplomats collect him and bring him in on a plain covered by immunity

You mean, like that Bolivian presidential plane that was forced to land in Austria? [cnn.com]

Re:Where? (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#45908427)

Or, if they're going to have him testify, they have diplomats collect him and bring him in on a plain covered by immunity, move him around in diplomatic cars, and house him in diplomatic residences.

The "Assange solution"? How is that working out?

Do you *really* think that it is impossible to basically "fuck you" and bring him there safely if there's the political will?

Its totally possible, as long as various European nations don't want to honor their treaty obligations and don't care about insults to allies. (I thought Europeans were always in favor of honoring treaties?) That can end up working both ways too, and not always in the way of a fantasy great triumphant either. Always keep in mind that the arrival of the future won't stop anytime soon, and it almost always has surprises in store. You may want friends around to help meet some of those surprises.

Is it 1914 all over again? [independent.co.uk]

Re:Where? (2)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#45908561)

Its totally possible, as long as various European nations don't want to honor their treaty obligations and don't care about insults to allies.

Except, at the heart of this is, has America lived up to their treaty obligations or cared about insults to allies?

If the answer is "no", then finding out the scope of this might be considered something which trumps how America feels about letting him testify.

Re:Where? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908599)

The EU as such cannot grant him any protection against the security/asylum/extradition policy of a Member state. If he wants to testify in the Brussels (or Strasbourg) offices of the EU parliament, he needs to make sure that the Belgian (or French, respectively) police will not put him under arrest. But basically the local police will have to obey an international arrest warrant if a US judge emits one, and then it would take several months to appeal to several jurisdictions until the point that he might be released on grounds of political will. But if there was such political will to protect him, we would already know about it from the news, and he would right now be enjoying life in Belgium or France instead of hiding in Russia.

Re:Where? (5, Informative)

Grantbridge (1377621) | about a year ago | (#45907763)

RTFA: The former US National Security Agency worker would testify by interactive video link from Russia, where he has been granted temporary asylum.

Re:Where? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907875)

So a video link, like across the NSA-is-watching internet?
All clear then. The feds would never figure out where he exactly is. More importantly they would never use that intel to send troops into a country with out permission to take him out. And certainly not just because they are mildly pissed off at him.

Re:Where? (1)

RivenAleem (1590553) | about a year ago | (#45907967)

Yeah, he's in Russia, possibly in an embassy somewhere. Good luck invading. There's still the possibility of dead-man information still unreleased. And his testimony will likely be public record, so the need to snoop it will be wasted effort. Even better, if they make it private, and the US reacts to something they should not have been privy to, well wouldn't that be the proof they've been looking for?

Re:Where? (1)

no_go (96797) | about a year ago | (#45908727)

The fear is that the US may be able to get Snowden's location by backtracing his connection, not what he may be saying.

Re:Where? (1)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | about a year ago | (#45909509)

I can just imagine how Putin would react if they caught a special forces team trying to nab him.

*makes popcorn*

Re: Where? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907979)

If the US was going to launch a military invasion into Russia for this trivial a purpose, they already would have.

Re:Where? (1)

trifish (826353) | about a year ago | (#45908137)

RTFA: The former US National Security Agency worker would testify by interactive video link from Russia, where he has been granted temporary asylum.

Heh. Would be funny if the packets were routed via the US and patriotically "deep-inspected" by the NSA.

Consult with your Lawyer before accepting, Edward! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908349)

Make sure testifying doesn't violate the terms Putin laid out w.r.t. your visa ("No further harm to the US" yadda yadda).
If the EU wants to get your testimony they can damn well give you political asylum first.
To deny you asylum yet claim your testimony is important, is disingenuous.

Re:Consult with your Lawyer before accepting, Edwa (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908595)

They can grant him asylum, sure, but there's a short list of countries that can actually make that stick. Why do you think he's in Russia and not Ecuador or Ireland or some other country that's not run by a real life comic-book supervillain, anyway?

Re:Where? (1)

PoisOnouS (710605) | about a year ago | (#45907777)

They don't have telephones or Skype in Russia?

Re:Where? (1)

fisted (2295862) | about a year ago | (#45907801)

well you see, in soviet russia telephone have you

Re:Where? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908139)

The invitation is going to be to testify over a video link, according to this [wordpress.com] pirate party MEP (and member of the LIBE committee).

Re:Where? (1)

hbo (62590) | about a year ago | (#45908279)

Read TFA.

Re:Where? (1)

discord5 (798235) | about a year ago | (#45909765)

I also know, despite being a dumb amerikkkan, that none of those places are in Russia. Snowden will absolutely be captured if he appears in any of these places and would be a great fool to testify there.

I dunno, he might just use the phone, or a videoconference tool over the internet (not like he's discussing state secrets (well, not anymore really)). You might not be that dumb of an "amerikkkan", but you're not the most practical person in the US of A either. I'd urge you to become more practical before turning into an enemy of the state, should the thought ever cross your (or your governments) mind.

The former US National Security Agency worker would testify by interactive video link from Russia, where he has been granted temporary asylum.

Right there in the article even.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. The article mentions that people are divided about having him talk, keeping US-EU relations in mind, which by itself in my opinion speaks tales about "how concerned" these people really are by the whole ordeal. In the end it remains politics, and even if most people were terribly upset they'll still shake hands and sign agreements as if there isn't a care in the world. I can see the merit of asking Snowden a few questions or clarifications, but if I understand it correctly he's already released his documents he had to share. I also vaguely remember his terms for his asylum being "not to further embarrass our American partners", and I would be extremely cautious if I were him about what those terms exactly mean. Putin may enjoy his little prank on the US, but he doesn't like it when people don't dance to his tune.

I think that if you read between the lines of all of this, the EU isn't even all that concerned about its citizens, but rather about its political and economical agenda. I wouldn't be surprised at all if many countries in the EU currently have their intelligence services cooperatively lobbying their politicians to do the very same. Hell, I would be surprised if they already haven't done such a thing on a smaller scale in the first place, considering how much some of the EU nations are investing in their own "anti-terror" efforts, although much more low profile and with considerably less impact. In reality, all nations across the globe are engaged in political and economical espionage, but it's their efficiency that you should be concerned about.

I would say this is nothing but a lot of grandstanding for political reasons, but I am a cynic when it comes to politics. Many European politicians although they emit an air of indifference when it comes to the US, are very big fans of the US as has been made obvious by the cable leaks released by wikileaks in the past. There's decades of treaties and agreements between most EU nations and the US, and few are willing to risk the long-term benefits of those.

Its gotta be a trap. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907761)

Captcha: funnily

Shoe on the other foot? (2)

EMG at MU (1194965) | about a year ago | (#45907771)

What if Snowden was a former employee/contractor for GCHQ, and he leaked documents illuminating GCHQ spying on the US, Russia, and other non European nations? Would the EU still allow him to testify, or would they be calling for him to return to face their courts?

Re:Shoe on the other foot? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907807)

I don't think you're recent on UK-EU relations; they're fairly complicated and not going all too well lately.

Re:Shoe on the other foot? (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about a year ago | (#45908641)

The UK seems like they're the EU's red-headed stepchild these days.

Re:Shoe on the other foot? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908053)

Yes? Especially if the GCHQ had been spying illegally on its own citizens as well.
In some parts of the world, illegal conduct by the government would actually have consequences.

Of course they do (2)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#45907799)

Members of the European Parliament say that it is 'very doubtful that data collection of such magnitude is only guided by the fight against terrorism,' and that there may be other motives such as political and economic espionage.

Of course they do, because part of the mandate is to look out for US commercial interests in general.

The problem is they use the same program to spy for the terrorists, as they do for the economic and political espionage.

Which means, unless the US is willing to carve out JUST the security stuff (which, they won't), every other country more or less has to block this program on the premise that it's just a widespread "spy on everybody, some of them might be security risks, some of it might be political intel, and some can be given to the corporations".

That's kind of the problem from the perspective of the rest of the world -- any form of cooperation with this spying has far broader ramifications than just national security.

Hell, people here routinely defend it, but increasingly you might see other world governments saying they won't allow you to do it any more (in which case, it will be done anyway, just in a more clandestine manner).

So obvious it can't be true (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45907931)

The ultimate goal with government spying -- besides securing a multi-billion dollar cash flow that can be leveraged for personal gain -- is merely to build a warchest of options for prosecution, should government need to prosecute a citizen in the future. And by "need to prosecute", I mean need to silence, emprison, or murder. Now that there are enough crimes to make every citizen a criminal, this is entirely possible. Ayn Rand had it exactly right: the reason why the law is so absurdly complex is to ensure that every citizen can be prosecuted for something -- anything -- should the need arise.

Uuuh (1)

koan (80826) | about a year ago | (#45908015)

It's a trap!!!

He'd better not leave Russian (1)

stevegee58 (1179505) | about a year ago | (#45908047)

If he goes anywhere in Europe, even with the host country's approval and protection, I wouldn't be surprised if he were snatched in a CIA black op.

Re:He'd better not leave Russian (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about a year ago | (#45908695)

You think they can't get him in Russia? They are terrified of the "Security" file he has. I suspect a lot more damaging stuff would get released if he suddenly disappeared.

Of course its economics (3, Informative)

MouseR (3264) | about a year ago | (#45908067)

There was a story a few years ago that showed Boeing was successful in derailing an Airbus deal by using espionage and hacking to gather intelligence on the Airbus proposal, allowing Boeing to cut-in the proposition with their own submissions, finally realizing the deal at the expense of Airbus.

Re:Of course its economics (1)

MouseR (3264) | about a year ago | (#45908083)

Re:Of course its economics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909269)

Not sure what your point is with this link since both companies involved were American...

Re:Of course its economics (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909333)

France is one of the worst offenders when it comes to industrial espionage particularly when it comes to aerospace. Calling out Boeing for something the French government does regurlarly on Airbus's behalf is like the pot calling the kettle black.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/shashankjoshi/100224247/france-should-remember-its-own-history-before-complaining-too-much-about-american-espionage/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_espionage#France_and_the_United_States
http://www.hanford.gov/files.cfm/frenchesp.pdf

Time allotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908167)

I bloody well hope that said testimony is anything but brief—something gives me the impression that he will have a lot to say.

Applebaum's testimony was disappointingly short.

Having read the report, the main points are: (4, Informative)

hazeii (5702) | about a year ago | (#45908609)

A quick synopsis (so may contain stuff to quibble over) but the meat appears to be the action list (read the original document - link in article - for the rest):

Action 1: Adopt the data protection package [europa.eu]

Action 2: Set up an overall agreement ensuring 'proper redress mechanisms' for EU citizens where data is passed to the US for law enforcement purposes.

Action 3: Suspend 'safe harbour' (covering personal data) until the US comply with 'EU highest standards'

Action 4: Suspend the 'TFTP' (Terrorist Finance Tracking Package) until a) Action 2 complete b) the EU have looked into it

Action 5: Worth quoting in full: "Protect the rule of law and the fundamental rights of EU citizens, with a particular focus on threads to the freedom of the press and professional confidentiality (including lawyer-client relationships) as well as enhanced protection for whistleblowers".

Action 6: Develop a european strategy for IT independence (that'll send cold shivers down the spine of certain US companies).

Action 7: Develop the EU as a reference player for a democratic and neutral governance of the internet (my translation: currently it's a US party, we want in on that).

fiRst (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45908757)

developmentt mo3el

Snowden To Testify? ( Score: +5, Comical ) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909227)

To what country is Snowden supposed to travel? He'll have to reconsider the possibility of extraordinary rendition.

I hope this helps the EU Committee .

Yours In Cryptography,
K. Trout, C.T.O.

Re:Snowden To Testify? ( Score: +5, Comical ) (1)

oodaloop (1229816) | about a year ago | (#45909323)

There's these things called telephones. Check it out sometime.

Calling Captain Obvious (1)

Jawnn (445279) | about a year ago | (#45909371)

...and that there may be other motives such as political and economic espionage

Jeez... Ya think? I'll spare us the rant about how much of that has already occurred and jump right to how ashamed I am that my country has embraced such activity on such a scale. I mean, I get that, in business "it's just business" is a tacit rationalization for doing anything that you can get away with to enhance the bottom line, but for my government, who is supposed to at least carry on the illusion that it represents my interests, to give that same excuse is just, well, shameful.

Yep. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909551)

We the People know this..

Obama and friends still claim this is a 'fake' scandal made up by those evil republicans.

That what geeks will do for sex... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909587)

Never underestimate power of sexually deprived geeks like Snowden...
After all he went to NSA because he thought its the National Sex Association.

However now his dream finally made true. Now he can fuck the Uncle Sam when he wants and as much as he wants.
and Uncle Sam seems to love him back too. He even offered to make it out in nice room at Gitmo..

Snowden arrested (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45909773)

In recent news Snowden was arrested at the EU Committee Conference on Security by member states of NATO on the basis of treaty security violations under pressure from the US Government.

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