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We Can Avoid a Surveillance State Dystopia

Soulskill posted about 8 months ago | from the with-only-the-power-of-love-and-maybe-some-napalm dept.

Privacy 267

An anonymous reader writes "After the past year's revelations about NSA spying, it's hard to read any commentary about society without dire warnings of the coming (or already present) surveillance state. Sci-fi author Ramez Naam makes the point that while government surveillance needs to be fought, it's actually not as bad as what we were promised in decades past. 'Aldous Huxley published Brave New World in 1932. And while Brave New World is remembered more for predicting government-controlled biological engineering of the masses, it also features government surveillance, media manipulation, and thought control. This is an old idea. Yet somehow, today, in most of the world, governments have dramatically less control over their people than they did when Huxley and Orwell wrote those words. Indeed, the average person on Earth is more free today, in 2014, than he or she would have been in the actual year 1984. The arc of history has bent towards more freedom.' Naam also explains that the technological advances allowing the bulk collection of personal data also provide us with cheap and easy means to fight government overreach."

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Wait what (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46307413)

So the government doesn't control the media and control us through fear of terrorism? Because it seems to me that they kind of do

Re:Wait what (0, Flamebait)

alen (225700) | about 8 months ago | (#46307593)

as someone who grew up in the 80's with constant real terror attacks, its not a fear
9/11 was the largest attack in a long string of attacks against the USA for the previous 20 years

Re:Wait what (4, Informative)

Killall -9 Bash (622952) | about 8 months ago | (#46307641)

In what country did you grow up in the 80's in, because all of the terrorism I remember happening in the 80's happened in other countries.

Re:Wait what (1)

peragrin (659227) | about 8 months ago | (#46308025)

Unabomber, Pam Am flight 103 ,
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/... [pbs.org]

Then in the 90's
1993 WTC bombing, timothy mcveigh, etc.

And that is the ones I remember and 1 minute with google. People are always blowing shit up in someones name.

Re:Wait what (1)

alen (225700) | about 8 months ago | (#46308031)

in the USA and yes, most of the attacks were directed against americans
the marine barracks
the american killed on the cruise ship
the night club in germany
pan am flight 103
some TWA flight where 4 americans were killed because they were americans
WTC bombing in the 90's
USS Cole
the embassy bombings

Re:Wait what (5, Interesting)

Immerman (2627577) | about 8 months ago | (#46307691)

And? Fear of a real thing is still a fear, and the world is full of real threats. The question is: is the fear proportional to the danger? And it's pretty clearly not where terrorism is concerned. Even in 2001, the undisputed high-water mark for US terrorism deaths, only a few thousand people died in the attacks, versus the roughly 40,000 who died in car crashes. It's pretty clear the fear had nothing to do with actual danger, but rather with media sensationalism and propaganda.

Re:Wait what (-1)

alen (225700) | about 8 months ago | (#46308051)

9/11 happened because in the 80's the US was complete pussies and never struck back against the terrorists
you could blow up a plane and nothing will happen to you
having US military kill terrorists is what we should have been doing in the 80's

Re:Wait what (5, Insightful)

maliqua (1316471) | about 8 months ago | (#46308093)

its not even remotely possible that the terrorist attacks are inspired by the actions of your military are they?

Re:Wait what (0)

cavreader (1903280) | about 8 months ago | (#46308531)

As long as people continue to give the terrorists a free pass on their violence by blaming the victims it will never stop. Every terrorist group or totalitarian leader on the planet is always given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the atrocities they commit.

Re:Wait what (5, Insightful)

Immerman (2627577) | about 8 months ago | (#46308393)

No, I think you've got that mostly backwards - the terrorist attacks were mostly because our military and black-ops teams have been continuously fucking with the region for the better part of a century at least. I think we can all agree that Saddam was a terrible, *terrible* leader - wouldn't you be pissed at the people who put him in power and continued to prop up his regime? (not that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11, but his is the name everybody knows)

Re:Wait what (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308071)

LOL so did I 'constant real terror attacks'

yeah what 4-5 things happened which where hugely hyped up through the media,.. couldn't be a distraction from

Iran - 1980 - Americans aborted a rescue attempt to liberate 52 hostages seized in the Teheran embassy.
Libya - 1981 - American fighters shoot down two Libyan fighters.
El Salvador - 1981-92 - The CIA, troops, and advisers aid in El Salvador's war against the FMLN.
Nicaragua - 1981-90 - The CIA and NSC directed the Contra War against the Sandinistas.
Lebanon - 1982-84 - Marines occupied Beirut during Lebanon's civil war; 241 were killed in the American barracks and Reagan "redeployed" the troops to the Mediterranean.
Honduras - 1983-89 - Troops sent in to build bases near the Honduran border.
Grenada - 1983-84 - American invasion overthrew the Maurice Bishop government.
Iran - 1984 - American fighters shot down two Iranian planes over the Persian Gulf.
Libya - 1986 - American fighters hit targets in and around the capital city of Tripoli.
Bolivia - 1986 - The Army assisted government troops on raids of cocaine areas.
Iran - 1987-88 - The United States intervened on the side of Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War.
Libya - 1989 - Navy shot down two more Libyan jets.
Virgin Islands - 1989 - Troops landed during unrest among Virgin Island peoples.
Philippines - 1989 - Air Force provided air cover for government during coup.
Panama - 1989-90 - 27,000 Americans landed in overthrow of President

Re:Wait what (-1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 8 months ago | (#46308273)

The only terrorist attack you listed was the attack by Iran's proxy terrorist group Hezbollah on the Marines in Lebanon.

Re:Wait what (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308415)

*woosh*

Re:Wait what (-1, Redundant)

cold fjord (826450) | about 8 months ago | (#46308495)

"Woosh" youself, there were terrorist attacks in the US in the 80s. The list above is nonsense.

wait... (1)

AHuxley (892839) | about 8 months ago | (#46308771)

Re the "list above is nonsense", try reading this cold
Timeline of United States military operations 1980–1989
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T... [wikipedia.org]

Re:wait... (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 8 months ago | (#46308825)

Sorry A, but that still isn't a list of terrorist attacks other than passing reference to the Libyan sponsored German disco bombing that killed two U.S. soldiers.

umm no (5, Insightful)

dlt074 (548126) | about 8 months ago | (#46307421)

we are not more free. we are over regulated, over ruled, over interfered with. period.

you can double-speak it anyway you like. spin spin spin. we are less free then ever here in the US of A.

Re:umm no (1)

ToasterTester (95180) | about 8 months ago | (#46307579)

Exactly.

There is nothing they can't monitor and collect these days, the only thing in our favor is ability to analyze the mountain of raw data they have already.

Where to draw the line. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46307581)

we are not more free. we are over regulated, over ruled, over interfered with. period.

I think spying on Americans is shitty. Regulating discharge from mining companies or oil drilling companies is completely acceptable.

That's my opinion.

You may disagree.

But where does freedom begin and end.

As for me, business is always wrong because profit makes people eventually do evil. Capitalism makes people spiral to the bottom because of its nature. The excuse of "our bottom line" creates a mentality to destroy the commons and poison people. I have never seen an exception. Please, tell me when the profit motive has helped people over the long term. I would really like to know.

Yes, I am implying that Socialism is better over the long term. Although, it's still not good enough.

Economics is the most backwards 'science" ever - it's more of a religion, isn't it.

Economics is the most backwards 'science" ever (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46307887)

...Economics is the most backwards 'science" ever - it's more of a religion, isn't it...

Nonsense!

What about Climate 'science'? That's more out-and-out fraud...

Re:Economics is the most backwards 'science" ever (2)

John Nemesh (3244653) | about 8 months ago | (#46307899)

Sure, and the Polar Vortex that put the entire US in a deep freeze this winter was all a conspiracy! So is the record drought in the Southwest! FOOL! WAKE UP!

Re:Economics is the most backwards 'science" ever (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 8 months ago | (#46307999)

I don't have to wake up. It's too bloody hot to sleep in Australia.

Re:Where to draw the line. (4, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | about 8 months ago | (#46308199)

As for me, business is always wrong because profit makes people eventually do evil. Capitalism makes people spiral to the bottom because of its nature. The excuse of "our bottom line" creates a mentality to destroy the commons and poison people. I have never seen an exception. Please, tell me when the profit motive has helped people over the long term. I would really like to know.

Money is what keeps me showing up at work five days a week. Now I'd like to think I'm doing something useful there, granted I'm not curing cancer or anything like that but still. Throw me in a "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" communist hellhole I'll do my best to be useless and needy. Or better yet, one of the people in power who decide if other people are useful or have needs. Give me the Star Trek utopia and I'll be the bloody useless guy who spends all his time on the holodeck. Which is why I think all the basic income people are on crack, because there's frankly jobs you wouldn't do if you could live well without doing them.

Money isn't really the cause of anything, it's just the objectification of "What's in it for me?" and honestly, I don't ever see most of my money. They just exist as numbers in a bank somewhere, I can't even wipe my ass with them. They're just easier to use as intermediaries and to gain interest on than buying lifestock and breeding them, forests that produce lumber or whatever else produces "interest". If we weren't using currency we'd still have economics, for example people would look for arbitrage in swapping cows for goats for corn for cows if the exchange rates were off. People would look at the ROI for giving you grain now in return for pork next summer. Maybe they weren't so formal about it, but it still happened long before we started using coins and notes.

Re:Where to draw the line. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308277)

Economics is just the study of how society manages limited resources (labor, capital, etc.). You can't have a society without some sort of economic philosophy, regardless of whether it's socialism, communism, or capitalism.

I don't disagree with your critiques of capitalism but I am a very cynical person and I don't see how socialism or communism completely eliminate human vices, they just manifest in different ways. We can argue which one is the most socially optimal and such, but we can spin stories all day about how human vices disadvantage any particular socioeconomic system.

Re:Where to draw the line. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308525)

The solution is less government not more. Specifically the portion of the government that allows people to escape liability if they form a corporation.

Until business owners are held personally liable for the actions of their employees nothing will improve.

Well, some of us are. (1)

khasim (1285) | about 8 months ago | (#46307625)

First off though, who is Ramez Naam and why should I care what his opinion is?

Secondly, "freedom" has never been evenly spread in the USofA. So while some of us are less free now, others have seen a net increase in their freedoms.

Anyway, from the summary:

Naam also explains that the technological advances allowing the bulk collection of personal data also provide us with cheap and easy means to fight government overreach.

He might want to look up Snowden and Manning.

You can "fight" but it is more likely that you will end up in jail than anyone doing the spying on behalf of the government will.

Re:umm no (1, Insightful)

cold fjord (826450) | about 8 months ago | (#46307649)

we are less free then ever here in the US of A.

People in the US are freer today in some ways, and less free in others. There is almost always pressure for the government to do something about this or that. The result is more regulation, and more laws. Economic freedom in the US has been falling, and making economic recovery more difficult. The result has been devastating to many people whether they are new graduates or the unemployed that can't find a job. Various other questions are being settled in the courts, such as the legality of recording the police, 2nd Amendment rights, and various questions of employment law.

The effects of Obamacare, the Dodd-Frank bill, and various others are starting to really kick in. There are other dangers posed, such as the DHS's license plate tracking proposal (scuttled, for now), and many others.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

Re:umm no (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46307721)

Utterly predictable as well as off-topic.

Are you sure you're not a bot?

Re:umm no (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308743)

Considering the content of your message, and the one above, the preponderance of evidence is that you are the bot, and a simple one at that.

Re:umm no (4, Insightful)

Dorianny (1847922) | about 8 months ago | (#46307841)

Lets completely ignore the fact that what the economy is recovering from is the huge blunder of the private banking sector following deregulation. Lets repeal Dood-Frank, If they screw up again than we will simply bail them out with tax-payer money like last time, but I am sure they learned their lesson the first time around and what we need is even more deregulation.

Re:umm no (0)

cold fjord (826450) | about 8 months ago | (#46308467)

The housing crisis was "a huge blunder" that was a forced error due to Federal intervention trying to drive up home ownership. There was a reform attempt, but it was blocked in the Congress by, guess who? Dodd-Frank is an impediment to recovery, and yet another excuse for Federal snooping [washingtonexaminer.com] .

Post Mortems on the Financial Crisis [nationalreview.com]

Re:umm no (2)

SpankiMonki (3493987) | about 8 months ago | (#46308883)

The housing crisis was "a huge blunder" that was a forced error due to Federal intervention trying to drive up home ownership.

For some reason, you failed to mention that the National Review article you linked to lists many causes of the sub-prime mortgage mess, not just intervention in the market by Fannie & Freddie. I'm sure it was a harmless oversight on your part, though.

I also suspect you're aware that the sub-prime crisis itself was only a part of the broader financial crisis of 2008, and it's pretty clear to me that GP is referring to the broader fiasco, not just the mortgage part.

Dodd-Frank is an impediment to recovery, and yet another excuse for Federal snooping

The Washington Examiner article you linked to says "The Dodd-Frank Act, which established CFPB, bars the bureau from collecting personally identifiable financial information on consumers", so how is it that Dodd-Frank provides an excuse for government snooping? Seems to me the law does just the opposite.

In any case, the relevance of Dodd-Frank and Obamacare to a discussion of avoiding a surveillance state is something that escapes me. But I'm sure you've got it all figured out. Care to share?

time delay (2)

duckintheface (710137) | about 8 months ago | (#46307977)

The internet is an inherently chaotic system with most of the computing power on the edges and very weak central controls. This is by design because it creates a stable, robust network. Individuals (first from universities) swarmed the internet in an explosion of creativity. They were followed by corporations as the net was opened to commercial activity. Government was late to the game and is only now coming to grips with how to use the internet for monitoring citizens.

As individuals moved online, there was certainly an increase in freedom to communicate. But now that "total information awareness " is upon us, we are less free. And in a way that's more dangerous than it was in 1984 because, at least until very recently, we did not know how limited our freedom was.

The Problem (5, Insightful)

nwaack (3482871) | about 8 months ago | (#46307423)

The problem is that most 'normal' people aren't going to use things like Tor in order to not not be spied on by their own county, nor should they have to.

startpage.com (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46307431)

Privacy focused search engine

It will be a riot (1)

Jim Sadler (3430529) | about 8 months ago | (#46307449)

There is a new technology that makes it impossible to lie in court or when interviewed by police. I suppose businesses will want to use it on employees as well. It seems that the muscles that control the voice box move even when you only think a thought instead of speaking it outloud. A cop could easily tell everything that is going on in your mind with this technology as could a wife or a divorce lawyer. I wonder how society would do if the truth were always available for all to see. Imagine politicians and diplomats being interviewed.

Re:It will be a riot (1)

Immerman (2627577) | about 8 months ago | (#46307811)

Most of my thoughts aren't in language, how could my throat movements possibly give me away? Even the ones that are in language tend to flow far faster than my throat could shape sounds.

Then again I suppose there's an awful lot of people who can't even read any faster than they can internally verbalize the words. But even then the throat is only responsible for producing whistles of various pitches, turning that into words is done primarily by the tongue and lips. Any attempt to understand the whistles is going to be horribly prone to interpretation.

And how would that do more than make lying a bit more difficult - you just need to avoid thinking much about the truth and/or start verbalizing the lie to mask any other movements.

If I mentally verbalize "I would like a banana", it's going to be pretty hard to get that from throat motions of iiiiooooooiiiiaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, and it certainly doesn't mean I actually want a banana.

In fact after carefully mentally verbalizing several sentences I can't detect any throat movement at all - perhaps it's just an order of magnitude smaller than when speaking, but I think I'm going to call bullshit on this one.

Re:It will be a riot (1)

ultranova (717540) | about 8 months ago | (#46307883)

There is a new technology that makes it impossible to lie in court or when interviewed by police.

Again?

It seems that the muscles that control the voice box move even when you only think a thought instead of speaking it outloud.

So learn to meditate and let your mind be as still as a crystal lake. Or a stagnant cesspool. Depends on what you're questioned for and whether you're guilty, I guess.

I wonder how society would do if the truth were always available for all to see.

It is, usually. Some details might be less than obvious sometimes, but most social interactions where power is involved are a morbid little dance where everyone knows exactly what's going on and do their utmost to avoid admitting it.

Re:It will be a riot (5, Insightful)

TapeCutter (624760) | about 8 months ago | (#46307889)

Great idea for a movie, Jim Carey would be excellent in the lead role.

Seriously, I was born in 1959, in my lifetime blacks freed themselves from the company store and won the right to vote, women unchained themselves from the kitchen sink and took control of their reproduction, young men are no longer conscripted to kill other young men, homosexuals can hold hands in public without risking jail and/or chemical castration, teenage mothers are no longer forced to give up their children at birth, men and women can cohabitate without the approval of the local preacher.

Those are just a few of the ways individual freedom has increased in the last half century. We may have taken a small step backward with overzealous mass surveillance but it has done little to reverse the great strides forward that occurred in the 60's and 70's.

Re:It will be a riot (4, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | about 8 months ago | (#46308491)

Those are just a few of the ways individual freedom has increased in the last half century. We may have taken a small step backward with overzealous mass surveillance but it has done little to reverse the great strides forward that occurred in the 60's and 70's.

I'm not sure surveillance and tolerance belongs on the same axis. We've moved from a fairly low-tolerance, low-surveillance state where many people did "unapproved" things in private to a high tolerance, high surveillance state where the government knows but it doesn't care. Graciously supported by "if you got nothing to fear, you got nothing to hide", "think of the children" and "either you're with us or the terrorists win" crowd, panopticon believers and other useful idiots privacy is rapidly shredded.

It doesn't get bad until the government gets repressive and you realize that the curtains you've opened can't be pulled shut again without going on all sorts of watch lists and shitlists for covert activity. Look at the countries that don't exactly have a stellar record for freedom, is it getting better there? Not really, through more surveillance the people in power have gained even more control. Crushing any form of resistance is often about catching it in its infancy, making people believe it's hopeless to gather enough to make a change. It's a lopsided fight leaning more and more heavily against the incumbent.

Re:It will be a riot (1)

Nehmo (757404) | about 8 months ago | (#46308603)

... Seriously, I was born in 1959, in my lifetime... teenage mothers are no longer forced to give up their children at birth, men and women can cohabitate without the approval of the local preacher. Those are just a few of the ways individual freedom has increased ... We may have taken a small step backward with overzealous mass surveillance but it has done little to reverse the great strides forward that occurred in the 60's and 70's.

You paint a mistakenly rosy picture of American, I assume, society. The incarceration rate in America is beyond the dreams of, say, WWII era dictators. And state governments routinely snatch babies from their families - often without cause. (I won't even deal with you call a "small" step backwards.) Sure, if you selectively list positive developments, freedom looks as though it has marched forward, but if you remove your filter, you'll realize freedom in America is more crippled than ever.

Sorry (1)

Vinegar Joe (998110) | about 8 months ago | (#46307479)

You're too late.

In some ways it's worse than promised. (3, Insightful)

medv4380 (1604309) | about 8 months ago | (#46307517)

We're ether in a surveillance state run by the State, a surveillance state run by Corporations, or a mixture of both. Avoiding one means getting the other at this point. I don't see a third option without destroying the tech that makes it possible, and I'll be keeping my my computers until the Amish Technology Police State take them from my cold dead hands.

Re:In some ways it's worse than promised. (1)

Immerman (2627577) | about 8 months ago | (#46307877)

How about banning all non-essential collection, storage, or exchange of personally identifiable data without explicit permission from the originating party? ISPs must flush all account-specific information as soon as it's no longer necessary for correct functioning. Google and Amazon can't make horribly inaccurate personalized recommendations unless I opt-in (and opt-in must not be mandatory). etc. etc. etc.

I'm not seeing any loss of functionality for citizens, except what's lost due to lack of surveillance-based profitability. And I see no problem with that.

Re:In some ways it's worse than promised. (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 8 months ago | (#46308115)

To a large extent parts of it are a surveillance state run by the State for the benefit of corporations. Airbus vs Boeing had it's day in court to confirm that around a decade and a half ago. While some may see it as "good for business" such a situation tends to suck for any business that does not have someone from the government in their pocket. Such a government sucks for anyone that would like to be represented instead of the state doing whatever they have been bribed to do.
There may be problems now but it's a very long way down that road and things can get a lot worse. When European investigators have recently found more than three trillion in untaxed US funds sitting in one tax haven, as a mere side effect of their own investigations, it makes me wonder how much influence was exerted to get the IRS to look the other way while those funds were taken offshore. If you can bribe the machinery of a state to lower it's income then bribing it to do just about anything seems possible. At that point it stops being your country, and can become a plaything external forces with enough cash - you've already got an Australian who owns a US TV network setting a big chunk of the political agenda.

your eyelids are getting heavy, repeat after me,, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46307539)

rock on /. from a slightly simpler time; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC3FCS-NtAI

It IS NOT a dystopia (0)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about 8 months ago | (#46307543)

Please read carefully and don't pre-judge this, but surveillance this isn't a dystopia.

There have been cameras at malls since at least the 1980s. At convenience stores probably the same.

No one complains about those.

Libraries have had membership cards since at least the 1980s, video rental places the same since the 1980s. Your Visa or Mastercard has tracked your purchases since maybe the 1960s. The phone company has known a list of people you called since maybe the 1940s. The company you work for probably has kept an eye on employees since the 1970s or 1980s.

Every time a criminal is busted or arrested due to a camera, people are relieved.

Don't you feel relieved that in the modern day they can usually track down hit-and-run drivers that run over pedestrians or get the identity of thugs that assault people or commit fraud. There are irrational paranoid fears of a 1984 style future or a Soviet Union future, but in 1984 the evil government was actually losing the war, the Soviet Union disintegrated and China has vastly liberalized.

Re:It IS NOT a dystopia (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46307591)

Sure, and if you have nothing at all shameful in your life, then you have nothing to hide.

You're also a boring fuck.

Re:It IS NOT a dystopia (1)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about 8 months ago | (#46308463)

"Sure, and if you have nothing at all shameful in your life, then you have nothing to hide."

I have nothing to hide! Seriously, nothing at all! So no need to check. All is good.

Move along!

Re:It IS NOT a dystopia (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308535)

It seems you're beginning to understand; either that, or you slipped up. There is indeed no reason to harass innocent people if they currently have zero evidence of wrongdoing.

Then again, your name contains "Troll," so that's most likely exactly what you are. To spew forth such nonsensical garbage that's been debunked countless times over makes this quite apparent.

Re:It IS NOT a dystopia (1)

Arith (708986) | about 8 months ago | (#46307615)

I can agree surveillance has it's place, but there is a line. I think that line is somewhere in Utah right now.

Re:It IS NOT a dystopia (5, Interesting)

AHuxley (892839) | about 8 months ago | (#46307731)

The classic low res cameras at malls where not expected to be connected to parts of the US gov in some real time HD with sound public private partnership.
e.g. Philadelphia police look to register private cameras in SafeCam (April 25, 2013)
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/st... [go.com]
Add in cheap gov options for facial recognition, gait recognition, regional (state) license-plate tracking and over time with new networks and funding - welcome to a HD dystopia.

Re:It IS NOT a dystopia (1)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about 8 months ago | (#46308507)

Why should I care if the cameras use facial recognition? How is that different than my phone GPS tracking me? Or my license plate number of my car being visible?

I spend time at home and work and shopping.

Here's a protip: During the day, I am usually at work. No need to track me!!

If I am not at work, I am probably at home! Again, no need to track me!!

Aw shit, the government already knows where my home is and where my work is because of tax returns.

Aw shit!! They've known this about people since the 1950s!!!!


Damn you dystopian future! Damn you!!!!!

Re care (2)

AHuxley (892839) | about 8 months ago | (#46308815)

The facial recognition systems track your face, your passengers face, another camera for you license plate number and then details get shared with a few gov and possibly private sector databases.
The main issue will be that your "home and work and shopping" driving options might be past a protest without a protest permit or parade permit and outside a free speech zone.
You would then be of interest. Is your state getting federal funds for national crime issues? Expect more tracking equipment.
ACLU: 2/3 of US population lives in “Constitution-free” zone
http://arstechnica.com/securit... [arstechnica.com]
Expect more random Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response teams too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V... [wikipedia.org] too :)

Re:It IS NOT a dystopia (0)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (895364) | about 8 months ago | (#46307845)

Libraries are not legally allowed to keep on record which books you have borrowed. They are only allowed to track which books you currently have in your possession.

This is the case in the socialist shithole called Sweden. It might be better in the capitalist paradise of the US.

Re record which books you have borrowed (2)

AHuxley (892839) | about 8 months ago | (#46308849)

The US did have a case on tracking patron records from a library. The National Security Letter aspect was taken to court and then dropped once in open court.
Some details at:
Librarians' NSL Challenge
https://www.aclu.org/national-... [aclu.org]
Federal Judge Finds National Security Letters Unconstitutional, Bans Them (03.15.13)
http://www.wired.com/threatlev... [wired.com]

Re:It IS NOT a dystopia (5, Insightful)

SpankiMonki (3493987) | about 8 months ago | (#46307855)

No one complains about those.

That's because in those days there weren't laws like the Patriot Act subverting the 4th Amendment.

There are irrational paranoid fears of a 1984 style future or a Soviet Union future...

It hasn't been that long since someone would be labelled "paranoid" and "irrational" for suggesting that the US government was surveilling *all* phone calls and electronic communications of US citizens. Yet here we are.

Re:It IS NOT a dystopia (1)

gIobaljustin (3526197) | about 8 months ago | (#46308513)

No one complains about those.

No one? Are you sure? Because you'd be wrong; I do.

But I can recognize the difference between mass government surveillance and limited surveillance on privately-owned property. The fact that you don't seem to be able to is a bit sad.

There are irrational paranoid fears of a 1984 style future or a Soviet Union future, but in 1984 the evil government was actually losing the war, the Soviet Union disintegrated and China has vastly liberalized.

Why don't you tell the hundreds of millions of people throughout history that were murdered or abused by governments that being highly cautious of the government is "irrational"? What's truly irrational is this fantasy land viewpoint that the government is made up of perfect angels; it's made up of human beings, and they're every bit as corruptible and subject to errors as the Bad Guys that you fear. Give the government too much power, or powers that could easily be abused in horrendous ways, and you will not like the results, provided you have a functioning brain.

But no. Forget the fourth amendment, privacy, freedom, and all that garbage. We're the land of the free and the home of the brave! Free and brave people discard their freedoms for safety!

Re:It IS NOT a dystopia (2)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about 8 months ago | (#46308601)

Cops and government officials get busted every single day from surveillance. Government employees get fired every day for their behavior caught on camera.

Cameras bring truth. Truth brings freedom.

You are for a more open and transparent government right? Hopefully you are for open source?

Openness rewards good people.

Re:It IS NOT a dystopia (1)

gIobaljustin (3526197) | about 8 months ago | (#46308733)

Cops and government officials get busted every single day from surveillance. Government employees get fired every day for their behavior caught on camera.

Cameras bring truth. Truth brings freedom.

The government spying on nearly everyone's communications is a fair bit different from individuals recording what they see. Privacy, the fourth amendment, and freedom are all at stake in the former case, but not in the latter.

Way to ignore just about everything I said, though.

Intrusion (2)

Spazmania (174582) | about 8 months ago | (#46307547)

It's because we have so much freedom that we know enough to be alarmed by how much government intrusion there is.

Right (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46307809)

You are absolutely right. The more important question to ask, would we be as free without the works of people like Huxley and Orwell?

Surveillance states exists as part of the problem (0)

Skinkie (815924) | about 8 months ago | (#46307573)

Does anyone really think that the NSA wouldn't have been overthrown by the people if the government wasn't there to protect their precious surveillance state in the first place, using means of violence against human society as hole? What we need is a way to establish a status quo in ultimate personal security. A way no sniper riffle in Ukraine could hurt you, nor you would be able to hurt anyone else, nor you would be moving where you don't want to be taken. This would give a lovely ecosystem that everyone understands.
We are all quite back at Animal Farm et al. The question is: what should happen before mass hysteria outbreak occurs beyond the typical themes such as "religion". Passive democracy is certainly not quite cutting it, and is it better than the past? Probably yes, because people are being held accountable for registered actions. It does sadly not say anything about the puppet master that tries to make us think we are better off now.

Re:Surveillance states exists as part of the probl (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 8 months ago | (#46308147)

"Mass hysteria" as used by people in governments is often code for "what if the public find out I'm a crook and string me up for my crimes?". Outside of the odd stampede during fires etc the real thing almost never happens.

Gee... (1)

MrEricSir (398214) | about 8 months ago | (#46307587)

...if only there was some process we could use by which we could affect change in our government.

Re:Gee... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46307717)

Good luck finding anyone so squeaky clean the NSA can't get a single bit of leverage on them.

Re:Gee... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308351)

Feel free to provide some evidence that has ever happened.

Re:Gee... (1)

blue9steel (2758287) | about 8 months ago | (#46307871)

I fondly await the emergence of such a process.

Re:Gee... (2)

Immerman (2627577) | about 8 months ago | (#46307929)

Yeah, that *would* be nice.

Unfortunately due to extensive lobbying and the well-understood weaknesses of first-past-the-post voting, in the US we're pretty much limited to picking between Sock Puppet A and Sock Puppet B every couple of years, with potentially independent 3rd-party candidates being unable to compete. They may work for slightly different subsets of powerful special interests, but the evidence is pretty clear that they don't actually listen to their constituency much - just look at the voting records of your representatives as compared to the recommendations of their campaign contributors.

No, you cant. (2)

nurb432 (527695) | about 8 months ago | (#46307603)

You cant avoid it. You are not in control of it.

Paranoid much??? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46307697)

There hasn't been anything leaked so far that I am surprised about. And I don't have a problem with the government doing it the way they are either. It would have worked had the media and Snowden told everyone. And if the NSA had implemented much better digital security systems in place, or took stuff off-network.

I am tried of all these articles, every single day... There are much more important issues that we should be discussing. Not letting the 1% of the civil ultra libertarians out there and criminals who are opposed to any tech spying from making a bunch of comments here and thinking that their numbers are bigger than they really are.

The general trend is not towards freedom (3, Insightful)

liquid_schwartz (530085) | about 8 months ago | (#46307751)

My grandfather was able to do many things that I cannot. My father was able to do less than him but still more than me. I have already gotten to do things that my kids won't be able to. Need examples, try how many places you can go hunting / fishing / hiking / off roading / target shooting / camping. You can't even have campfires at developed sites in some areas. Consider what firework options you have, they have probably gone down. Granted I live in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia, so many of you will have more options than I do. Even so, the trend that I've observed is that options (another way of looking at Freedom) are going down. I don't see an end in sight either.

Re:The general trend is not towards freedom (2)

dbIII (701233) | about 8 months ago | (#46308283)

I've got mixed feelings about that.
One of my relatives who played with relatively low powered fireworks once is missing a couple of fingers. Another who played with a lot of stuff up to and including cordite (the nearby army base had poor security) in his early teens had no damage apart from a reputation for being "that kid" who blew things up.
I've probably still got mixed feeling because in Australia it's still the situation where some people found with explosives near a major dam upstream from a major city were charged under illegal fishing laws instead of "omg terrorism!!!" laws. The police got to use their discretion. There are people that want us to go to the cottonwool wrapped extremes but it hasn't happened yet.
An American visitor said one thing he liked about Australia is that he could go to a park and there would be a sign with the name of the park and nothing else - no long list of stuff you can't do in the park. Of course that has started changing. I can no longer legally camp in one of my favourite spots even though it is in publicly owned land around 10km from any road, and there are now increasingly long lists of what you cannot do in many public parks.

Re:The general trend is not towards freedom (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308593)

So since your relatives are fucking total retards that means everyone should lose freedom. That's some dope ass logic right there bra.

Re:The general trend is not towards freedom (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 8 months ago | (#46308843)

It appears that you are joining the wrong dots with a crayon instead of paying attention the the message that it is not a simple issue.

But that's wrong, you nitwit. (5, Insightful)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 8 months ago | (#46307799)

TFA is disinformation or ignorance, do not believe the message therein.

You are only as free as they let you be. [youtube.com] The news is not the news. [youtube.com] You are slaves to corporations that farm you. [youtube.com] Your wars are fought to privatize economies. [youtube.com] Since secrets were allowed in government they have been actively against all activism, [wikipedia.org] because activism the only thing that affects change, your votes do not matter, [snagfilms.com] the political system is rigged. [snagfilms.com] Maintaining the social, economic, and political status quo, even against the will of the people, is what "national security" means. [theguardian.com] They don't have to fake disasters, they can craft legislation and posture politically so that when one comes along they can turn a blind eye if need be. Each disaster makes the people more powerless, increasing the wealth gap. This is disaster capitalism, and it is working great even in communist nations.

With unemployment up, you are still spending too much time working: One can not truly fulfill their potential as humans without time to relax, enjoy life, create, and explore new opportunities. Your office jobs are pointless, replaceable either by computers or outsourcing to individuals with less cost of living, and we do so increasingly to ensure no job stability -- nearly everyone is a buggy whip maker one step of progress away from being an "unskilled" homeless person. The labor jobs largely have no unions so their working conditions suffer. In both blue and white collar cases people are given no time to seek new avenues of employ, or even manage their finances (you think bankers hours aren't such for a reason? Information disparity is the source of all evil). With inflation out-pacing pay, money in savings is diminished so that people can not safely leave employ -- The better to entrap and farm you with my dear. If you had a little more time you'd have leverage at your disposal to find better work or keep a plan B so that you can bargain for better pay and working conditions. Each disaster allows the system to ratchet your belts a bit tighter, more reliance, less time to be human. This is why banks are not held accountable, and are rather encouraged to destroy markets. How could anyone benefit from economic disaster and the mayhem it brings? Humans will do whatever it takes to survive, and the unscathed upper echelon will capitalize on this.

What is worse than 1984 is having it worse while fools like the article writer think it's not as bad. Classic ignorance. An example of thought control at its finest. When I became an adult I looked upon your world as though an alien from a distant planet -- I managed to forget all the programming about what "the real world" is, and question everything as a scientist would. The most telling and alarming is your willful resistance to application of the scientific method to governance and worklife. It's fucking disgusting. No engineer or scientist would agree to be ruled thus.

The answer is to modularize and decentralize your production of necessary resources, but no one wants to hear that... Moronic NIMBYs, you deserve what you get for your apathetic ignorance and inaction. The government has codified resistance to sustainable coexistence. That's why farmers can't grow excessive crops, even for personal use, [wikipedia.org] and no city can survive on its own. Hell, school kids aren't even taught basic technologies like how to start a cooking fire, swim, sew, butcher, or bake -- Not survival skills, just essential requirements for being functional human beings that can survive in small groups if the world comes down around their ears. The governments love the ability to cut off your food, water and other supplies -- just like the Internet Kill Switch, and now the Device kill switch in the guise of anti-theft which was proposed in California. Even worse than Right to Read, [gnu.org] the next step will be to not allow technology to function unless the approved user authenticates their devices periodically with state approved systems -- even if it does not require network access.

You will see. History is public knowledge. This cycle will repeat so long as information disparity is allowed. It will get worse before it gets better, because the average person won't care until their ass is on the line and this situation is profitable for those not in the thick of it. Most of you will think: "We don't have it that bad, at least the boiling water isn't the fire itself." One day you will wake up and the world around you will be in chaos, and you will scrap and scrape by to survive as all humans must, and while you do so the company store will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Not in America (4, Insightful)

srichard25 (221590) | about 8 months ago | (#46307843)

"Indeed, the average person on Earth is more free today, in 2014, than he or she would have been in the actual year 1984"

Maybe the average person on Earth is more free today, but the average American is most definitely NOT more free today than they were in 1984. Try to buy a large soda in New York. Try to smoke just about anywhere indoors. Try to board a plane with a pocket knife, or even just a soda. 20 year old adults can serve in the Marines, but can't buy a drink.

Big freedoms, small freedoms (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308165)

It's harder to get a large soda or smoke a cigarette, but it's easier to get married to someone you love. It's easier to get equal pay as a minority.

There are some smaller freedoms that have been reduced, but there are also major freedoms that have been increased.

Re:Not in America (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308243)

Today I walked a trail in Wheat Ridge, CO and on my way back noticed a sign that stated the parks and open spaces are smoke free. For the environment and the health of the residents, were the reasons given. Pure fucking hypocrisy and a cash grab, as the park follows along I-70 into Denver; you can taste the exhaust from the vehicles.

Re:Not in America (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308279)

You know that the soft drink law didn't pass, right? And that smoking releases second hand smoke, which can cause serious respiratory problems for non-smokers forced to inhale it? That's like complaining "I can't burn tires in the office even though I like the smell." Your pocketknife can be placed in checked baggage - you might as well complain that you're not allowed to bring bombs on airplanes. I agree that the drinking age is silly, but most reasonable NCOs will just try to make sure their soldiers under 21 drink in a safe place rather than preventing them from drinking completely.

On the other hand, it's easier than ever to get your voice heard. Your lifestyle is less likely to be judged. Soft drugs are being decriminalized and legalized.

In other words, your ability to harm others has fallen while your freedom of action in non-hazardous areas is much greater.

Re:Not in America (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308777)

>Try to smoke just about anywhere indoors.

One freedom that I and many, many others are perfectly delighted for people to lose. If that's the kind of loss of freedom that we're headed towards, bring it on!

Stop asking for more state (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about 8 months ago | (#46307859)

The first step is to stop asking for more state and pretending that the government is a solution to control corporations, banks and any other "evil" out there.

Re:Stop asking for more state (1)

John Nemesh (3244653) | about 8 months ago | (#46307915)

You either have the governments control the corporations, or the corporations will control the government! There really isn't a middle ground here! And if you don't think the banks are "evil", after they DESTROYED millions of people's retirement accounts, put millions out on the street with bogus foreclosures, and then took BILLIONS from the TAXPAYERS and then paid their executive 7 figure bonuses, I don't know what to tell you...you are either blind or willfully ignorant, and I am not sure which is worse!

Re:Stop asking for more state (1)

fredprado (2569351) | about 8 months ago | (#46308021)

I am pretty sure you believe that, but the truth is that the corporations always control governments and never the other way around, and the rule is: the bigger the government the more powerful are the corporations.. There isn't a non totalitarian country in the world where this statement is false, and in totalitarian countries the government is the biggest corporation of all, and behaves just like so.

Finally whatever banks and corporations have done of evil in this world, governments have done worse, trust me.

Recursion (1)

x0ra (1249540) | about 8 months ago | (#46307943)

I guess this /. news is in itself sci-fi !

Surveillance != freedom loss (1)

Immerman (2627577) | about 8 months ago | (#46308023)

So wait - because we haven't yet started losing a lot of obvious freedoms yet we shouldn't be worried about an ever-more-invasive surveillance state? That seems disingenuous. It'd be a pretty stupid tyrant who tipped his hand before he was sure he could squash any opposition, especially if the tyrant in question is an association of powerful individuals who prefer to remain as anonymous as possible. Can you name the 100 most powerful people in the world? I bet you very few of them have ever intentionally appeared on television.

Even making the extremely generous assumption that the existing surveillance infrastructure is completely benign we'd be wise to listen to the old adage that power corrupts. Notice the order there - first comes the power, and only later the corruption. Create a powerful institution capable of concentrating immense power, and it's only a matter of time before corrupt individuals manage to maneuver themselves into a position where they can exploit it.

Besides which I would contest that we haven't lost a lot of freedoms. Once upon a time the US government wasn't capable of legally "disappearing" people in the middle of the night - now all they have to do is label you a terrorist and they can do just that. And I'm guessing pretty much anyone that might effectively threaten the status quo can pretty easily be labeled a terrorist. I'd say that's a pretty major freedom loss right there, even if it hasn't yet been horribly abused. (and how would we know?)

Fuck yeah I can! (1)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about 8 months ago | (#46308555)

"Can you name the 100 most powerful people in the world? I bet you very few of them have ever intentionally appeared on television."

Fuck yeah I can! And they have all been on TV.

1) Obama
2) Santa Claus
3) Putin
4) Chinese dude that runs China, what's his face.
5) Gandalf
6) Bill Gates

What do you mean the powerful people don't want to be on TV. That doesn't even make any sense. Tell former Mayor Bloomberg or Ted Turner that powerful people don't want to be on TV. You make no sense, man.

Information is power (3, Insightful)

EmperorOfCanada (1332175) | about 8 months ago | (#46308061)

The simple problem is that information is power. The typical psychopath who runs for political office or backstabs their way into top civil servant positions know this in their very cores. They want this power and they don't want us to have this power. This is why freedom of information requests can be the end of governments and many civil servants jobs and this is why they do their damnedest to fight them or exempt data from them.

A great example of this would be when the receipts for UK ministers got leaked that it instantly resulted in political career loss, criminal charges, and probably helped with a change in government. Obviously this was powerful data that when leaked resulted in a massive positive for society. Yet the government claims that this data is dangerous to have public; yet they can't show any damage that came from the one time it was made public. Plus the only claim with any real basis (account numbers and potentially credit card info) is nonsense as those could be blacked out with little loss to the public. But there has been no move to make this data public and an investigation into who leaked the data. If they did catch the person I suspect that they would end up facing penalties greater than those who were caught stealing from the government.

My personal view is that nothing that government does should be kept secret with the single exception of personal medical records. That basically if you work for or interact with the government that it should be 100% open. Some records could be sealed for a year or so such as undercover operations but that should require a special judge to approve and even then should have a time limit.

I see this as no different than if I owned a company and one of my employees told me that I couldn't see a contract they were negotiating for my company. If any employee said no to any information request I made then I would say, "No problem sorry to bother you." And then with security I would have them thrown out of the office while IT changed every password they might know and a forensic investigator would be pouring over their records before the day was over. Plus I would criminally charge them with the slightest wrong doing found. Whereas if an employee came to me saying they screwed up I would be quite forgiving and work with them through the problem.

Keeping things in the light is always the best policy. But too many government officials seem to think that we can't handle the truth. The reality is that the violent reaction they get when leaks do happen is that we are usually more annoyed with the coverup than the actual events. Benghazi would be perfect: it was layers of lying that brought about those events, events in a violent country where violence should be expected, and then the cover-up after. Few people would have been surprised that strange things happened in Libya, so covering them up was just stupid.

So no, this whole government getting more information is a terrible terrible thing. These people have long proven themselves to be 100% untrustworthy and quite hostile to our wellbeing. What has kept them from doing their worst was a combination of their having bad information combined with leaks that gave us great information. But now they can look at any "dissident" who by definition will be anyone questioning their behavior including normal political opposition, and not only figure out their entire network of supporters but as any mathematician will tell you with a network is that there are a few key nodes. Thus they will be able to effectively destroy any opposition not through routing out every little dissident but by highly selective targeting of very few people causing the network to disintegrate. To use the American revolution as an example I suspect that the British would have loved to find the few financially key supporters and throw them into the Boston harbor. If they had the lists of supporters that we now know as founding fathers the revolution could have been ended with one afternoon of hangings. And I am talking pre-teaparty; by reading their correspondence they could have seen trouble brewing, and with a few trumped up charges kept the ink off the declaration of independence.

Options (1)

AHuxley (892839) | about 8 months ago | (#46308085)

As the public and press after the Snowden whistleblowing finally wakes up to been activly tracked and logged over decades what can be done?
Popular culture sort of understood aspects of Echelon back in the 1980-90's via books and magazines, early internet use. The wider public where fooled by notions of legal protections, enshrined domestic law, population size, private vs public, computing power to store/sort vast data sets, brand and shareholders vs bad PR, powerful private sector crypto and other wonderful day dreams.
Understand the motives, funding, political origins and needs for vast illegal generational surveillance at the domestic level:
Operation_CHAOS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O... [wikipedia.org]
COINTELPRO (Counter INTELligence PROgrams)
Main Core http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M... [wikipedia.org]
PATCON (Patriot Conspiracy)
Options:
If your in the press or like to work with the press/blogs do so fully, openly, in plain text and in much detail as you can. Fill your emails, web 2.0 with past stories, names, events, press contacts, terms.
Attend any and all local free speech events and make sure you drive so your license plate can be noted.
Smile for the on site cameras and CCTV. Carry you cell phone so it can be logged and arrive early, stay to the last speech, interview people, show your photo ID when asked ;)
Ensure your date of birth and details are recored fully and are correct when requested.
Your now in the system but still enjoying your limited freedom to speak, work with the press, meet with other people in public, listen to their insights and experiences in public.
This will ensure good stories make it to the wider public vs the sock puppets pushing for more costly color of law limits on all of your freedoms.
Option 2
Buy a typewriter, use a photocopier, create a classic paper file system and only talk to the press face to face.
The East German and Polish experience in the 1980's show option 1 be very good at working in a country under constant surveillance with many interesting informants.
The state has to watch you work with the press or tell you to stop. Telling you to stop is picked up by the wider press and gets more people interested...

I have a typewriter (1)

MindPrison (864299) | about 8 months ago | (#46308095)

I'm considered by my friends as the most tech savvy guy around, but I use my good old Halda typewriter to type my blog & memoirs. It doesn't get much safer than than.

Re:I have a typewriter (1)

AHuxley (892839) | about 8 months ago | (#46308169)

Much cash has gone into domestic signals intelligence, electronic intelligence (traffic analysis). Every POTS phone call account, cell phone use, colorful web 2.0 experience, email can be stored for later examination.
If your memoirs require gov clearance recall Operation Dark Heart (a 2010 memoir by U.S. Army intelligence officer)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O... [wikipedia.org]

Some truth. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46308295)

... no we can't. Or we won't, rather.

The issue is Culture, not Technology (1)

Zombie Ryushu (803103) | about 8 months ago | (#46308323)

Right now, the Technology we have is changing the world. The thing is, is that there are still large sloths of the US Population that still has a White Supremacist, or Christian Supremacist Medieval of the world we live in. To these people freedom and egalitarian thinking is the enemy. "The other populations" must be kept 'under control' The technology will be abused to whatever means possible to control what are seen as a domestic enemy population to uphold traditions of ancestors, and this can get as finite and grandular as Parents vs. Their Children.

Technology leads, government follows (1)

hessian (467078) | about 8 months ago | (#46308349)

We now have two salient facts about our technology:

(a) A constant flow of communication

(b) The ability to monitor it

Someone will do this. It's inevitable that government will want to in order to keep an eye on true threats. Sort of like Echelon, but domestically, as our threats are now domestic more than foreign.

The arc of history has bent towards more freedom. (1)

Ralph Spoilsport (673134) | about 8 months ago | (#46308457)

Unless of course you want to send an email and feel confident that it's confidential.

Thanks a lot for posting a good article (-1, Troll)

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1984 happened in 1976... ignorant /. article here. (1)

strstr (539330) | about 8 months ago | (#46308489)

I give you the unheard of Dr. Robert Duncan, Department of Defense, Central Intelligence Agency, Department of Justice surveillance system architect.

1976, he says TAMI / Thought Amplifying and Mind Interface was deployed in all radar systems based on Robert Malech's 1974 patent, 3,951,134, Apparatus and method for remotely monitoring and altering brain waves.

Democracy was destroyed, and today thousands of people have been victimized by the government with psychic attacks and directed energy weapon abuse. They monitor everyones brainwaves remotely, to the tune of 1.4 terabytes per second, and store our memories in their computer systems. Video, audio, emotions, dreams, and all are monitored. This isn't for criminal justice or peace either, they hate us and are controlling and sabotaging society and they can set up, rape, injure, murder, and get away with any covert abuse they want.

Space capability is also being used to target us during black operations, according to NSA whistleblower Russell Tice.. as he had done to many individuals and blew the whistle on in 2005.

Details, video, patents, books, interviews of Dr. Duncan's on and other NSA issues at: http://www.oregonstatehospital... [oregonstatehospital.net]

The fact is, the public still has not even picked up on the truth of the US governments surveillance programs and continues to live in ignorant bliss.

The Matrix Deciphered, Dr. Robert Duncan's ebook PDF download excerpts:

Here is secret #1 that has been suppressed by the forces of ignorance in the government. There was a patent that I will keep referring to throughout this book because of the importance of the work. It is published in the appendix. In 1974, Robert Malech, an employee of Dorn & Margolin Inc., a major defense subcontractor in radar design now owned by EDO Corporation an even larger all defense contractor in electronic warfare, invented a fairly simple radar device that could read whole brain electrical activity at a large distance . It has the major advantages of no wires and full brain electrical activity analysis, not just points on the skull surface. He discovered and perfected a way to use some simple electromagnetic oscillations anywhere from 100Mhz to 40 Ghz to read brainwaves by "illuminating" the brain and its electrical conductance then reading the return signal. The imaging method observes the changes of frequency resonances, amplitude, and phase which represent the states of neuron depolarization throughout the brain.

Secret #2. But more profoundly, he discovered that he could influence brain waves if precisely timed with a return training signal. He had no idea that at this moment in history, he had accidentally destroyed democracy as we envision it to be. The military and surveillance community immediately picked up on the patent and within two years had reprogrammed their communications and surveillance satellites and terrestrial phased arrays with the new concepts. The rapid deployment of this technology occurred because it only required software changes in already existing radar, imaging, and communications' terrestrial dishes and satellites. Many additional spy satellites have been launched since to bolster the system. So in 1976, on the bicentennial of this great nation, a system called TAMI was born. TAMI is an acronym for "Thought Amplifier and Mind Interface". A more invasive "Big Brother" technology came about before George Orwell's prediction of 1984.

Secret #3. Stealth RADAR techniques were first recorded by observing the Russian bombardment of the U.S. embassy in Moscow with microwaves. Using high powered steered phased arrays and focused directed energy from two sources next to each other, one can create a nearly undetectable "scalar" wave, or destructive interference at the point of interest. With just a minor energy interaction, the interfering beams bounce back with strong signal to noise ratio to be resolved at the sources again. This allows for any imaging technique to be done from extremely large distances. In effect, it makes distance irrelevant to the detection feature, be it RADAR, MRI, or ESR imaging.

At the same time, the Russians had discovered and were developing similar capabilities. This accelerated the secret arms race that continues to this day. The research and capabilities have come a long way in the last 30 years. Even if one didn't have direct access to the knowledge of surveillance capabilities, one could project out in time 30 years knowing technology developments increase at an exponential rate. At that time the military demonstrated the capability of reading automobile license plates from satellite images.

In order to cover up and not draw attention to mind reading radar, the whole field of psychic phenomena and paranormal psychology was invented to deceive the civilian populations of what was occurring. The Russian's showed their hand when they started bombarding the U.S. embassy in Moscow with microwaves in the late 60's, and then with the 7 Russian Wood Pecker transmitters that began operation in 1976 pointed at the U.S.

Unfortunately, due to the nature of this new weapon, many human minds are needed to create the database of specific brain data necessary to increase the effectiveness on a larger and larger population. These are referred to as the "Cataloguing and Cloning operations". In this context, cloning does not refer to human cloning, but EEG cloning. Many have misunderstood this fact and then it was popularized by the T.V. series "X-Files". These cloning operations are what plague the human race today as every country feels the need to have this weapon that requires torturing and killing many people of their own populations to develop.

EEG cloning means to copy someone else's brainwaves onto another person. The discovery made by Robert Malech allows this to be done wirelessly anywhere in the world. A new military division emerged called The Psychic Warfare Unit initially stationed in the Pentagon but most likely it was rolled into the Psychological Operations, Electronic Warfare, and Informational Warfare Units. Initially this became a great intelligence gathering tool. Psychically spying into other people's minds was an incredible feat.

I don't use the term EEG cloning much because it refers only to the special case of observing a targets mind. That is only one aspect of the technology. Malech discovered he could influence brain waves just as easily as reading them. So at the other extreme, a psychic warrior can EEG clone his brainwaves onto a target. This is symbolized in the movie "The Matrix" where the agents take over random citizens bodies while in pursuit of the heroes. The correct terminology to describe everything in between the two extremes is EEG heterodyning. Heterodyning is an engineering term which means to mix signals. So EEG cloning is just a special case of EEG heterodyning.

EEG cyber hive mind is another term used for EEG heterodyning for non-weapons use experiments. These are collectives of people who share one common set of brain waves. They jokingly refer to the process of forcing someone into a collective as "Borging" them, a reference to the evil cyborg civilization from Star Trek. They are studying both the long term effects of being in this kind of collective mind configuration and how to use it to control, spy through, disable, or kill a target. They also are studying communication and organization without spy gadgets of any kind for synchronized missions.

The emerging field which intersects at the physics of psychology is called "psychophysics". The dynamics of the mind are well described from neuroscience reductionism. Artificial neural networks have been around for over half a century. But the new challenge is to map exactly the subjective experiences of consciousness to the physics of organic intelligences informational signal processing including biochemical and electromagnetic. The word "Psychophysics" has additional connotations that are quite appropriate in the way that this field has evolved in the secret labs around the world. The tools of psychophysicists are called psychotronics. It is this area of research that has given rise to all the conspiracy theories on the New World Order psychoterrorists, secret societies involvement, mind control and satanic cults. Mind control weapons are the holy grail of the ultimate weapon and has given birth to the world's most notorious, sociopathic scientists which in turn have spawned a generation of the most intense human suffering for weapons testing efficacy the people of this planet have ever endured.

The First Documented use of Mind Reading RADAR

In order to reduce the effects from the bombardment of the U.S. embassy in Moscow with microwaves, they put up microwave screens on the windows of the building. Oddly enough, this actually had the opposite effect of increasing the microwave intensity inside. The only way this can happen is if interferometry was being used on the embassy. If you block a path of the interfering / heterodyning wave fronts, you can lessen the destructive interference pattern thereby increasing the measurable energy. This was the first documented use of so called "scalar weapons". ...

Electron Spin Resonance (ESR)

This is the secret sauce that the conspiracy kills to keep secret. Notice that there are no ESR machines in hospitals. Why? Because it would become immediately obvious how easy it is to read body electricity from RADAR, i.e. brain waves at a distance. The basic concept is simple and very analogous to the way Magnetic Resonance Imaging works. It works on manipulating spin and gyro frequency of electrons.

Electron Spin Polarity Resonance (EPR)

In this imaging technique the spin polarity is measured by flipping it which adds or subtracts energy from the system. Energy must be conserved so a photon is given off if it goes to a lower energy spin state. It is "heated" during the movement to a higher energy state prepping it for a synchronized transition back to a lower energy state. The body's electricity is modulated into delayed state transitions because of the local electric field variations. This return signal is processed and the very high signal to noise EEG patterns are extracted. The sensitivity is truly "science fiction" like. Even a single nerve or neuron firing can be picked up individually. This gives new meaning to Signal Intelligence.

Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI)

Very similar to the way magnetic imaging works with the spin of the nuclei of atoms with their magnetic moments. ...

Millimeter wave, Infra-red and Visible Wavelength Satellite Imaging

This topic is self explanatory. Everyone has seen the incredible detailed infrared imaging capabilities of the military. They can see heat signatures through walls. What do haunted houses, ghosts, alien abductions, and the Bermuda Triangle have in common? Remember how the air becomes electrified before a haunting by the appearance of a poltergeist in movies inspired by this weapons testing on the public? We've busted our ghost in the machine! Remember how planes would be downed in the Bermuda Triangle because their compass needles and instruments would go haywire? Those were directed energy attacks from the Puerto Rico Radar field built in 1959. Remember all the shows about cars stalling and radio stations flipping right before an alien abduction scenario? These are all the same RADAR tricks but with varying degrees of lethality. These tricks are all done by the same technology and the usual criminals in the bowls of the beast. ...

Van Eck Hacking
Hacking the human brain

Computer hackers are always finding ways to zombify as many machines as they can. This means that they find a way to hack into your system and install remote control software of some sort. The Military's programs, called Zombie I-V, were similar in goal. They wanted to be able to hack into people's minds and create remote controlled zombies. They succeeded over 30 years ago and the technology is now close to perfected. There is a stalking phenomenon occurring in America and around the world. Read "Terrorist Stalking in America" for another perspective.

There are three kinds of stalkers one of which have been released by the freedom of information act documents that describe government stalking programs, or goon squads as they are called in slang. CIA and other agencies training their employees for intimidation tactics abroad and in the US are one form of the members of terrorist stalking gangs. The CIA has used these tactics to help overthrow governments and intimidate leaders of other countries many times in history.

The second purpose is to play into society's programming that people who think government agents are following them are crazy. Discrediting an individual through mud slinging, black mail, or erratic behavior has been a high priority documented skill for these agencies.

The other two types of stalkers are more dopes and victims of zombification. The global system, TAMI, can hone in on a compatible mind and instantly be able to manipulate it to some varying degree dependent upon many factors. The offense practices their trade by influencing people near a targeted individual to convey information only pertinent to them, for spy games. These people are everyday citizens unfamiliar with this high technology. The effects are so subtle without lots of training to detect, nobody would be the wiser. They would at most just question why they did that or felt the need to say that. ...

Monitoring of Life Signs and Psychic Star Wars Defenses

So almost every human is monitored and tracked by various integrated technologies. One justification for TAMI is that a global system to monitor everyone is necessary to alert the military in case of a psychic war and protect the leaders from electromagnetic influence. But of course in reality it is used for the exact opposite purpose. Uniqueness of heartbeat and breathing patterns (list patents).

Other Star Wars Directed Energy Weapons Plans

I have seen plans for electromagnetic rail guns for launching projectiles in space at other satellites. They use superconducting high powered magnets to accelerate projectiles faster than bullets.

Imaging the brain and other Earth objects

From my protected sources I have seen, brain images derived from the TAMI system. I was not told how they were produced but I can reverse engineer some possibilities given what I know about surveillance capabilities. Using cognitive modeling techniques, one could construct a PET or functional MRI like image showing brain activity simply using the phase, amplitude, and frequency information from mind reading RADAR. A spectral image could be constructed based on models of brain function and an electron spin resonance topographical head map. Since the brain activity is precisely known, it could be rendered and displayed in a 3-D image. Other methods might include using sub-millimeter or Terahertz wave length RADAR or Earth Gauss MRI/ESR techniques. Incredible that this can all be done with a constellation of spy satellites or ground based phased arrays. In medicine one technique is called computed tomography or CAT scan which use x-rays to obtain image data from different angles around the body and then uses computer processing of the information to show a cross-section of body tissues and organs. X-rays are not used for obvious health reasons by the equivalent RADAR imaging but any or all wavelengths under the visible spectrum can be used to obtain a very good image of a person. The infamous HAARP phased array that stretches across Alaska is capable of Earth penetrating tomography. ...

Memory Probing

One of the more useful aspects of this technology is the ability to probe memories. The EEG heterodyning practice attackers play the same game with all victims. They are able through two techniques to walk the victims back in time to think that they have been linked to the victim since birth. Since the capabilities of remote neural stimulation are nearly identical to electrical probes in the brain, a random neural stimulation will trigger memories. This is not used for targeted memory recall, but rather for finding and recording memory anchors for further investigation.

Those memories are used through synthetic telepathy conversations to make the target remember other connected events. Of course direct vocal interrogation techniques can achieve the same results. Over time, this process is effective to get a complete profile of a person's life. Another tangential method used in connection with interrogations is an injected guilt signal. This forces memory recalls in conjunction with a specific memory anchor. So if you feel guilty about some particular memory, those additional memories will surface. And the last method used in these psychic games is more incredible. While the databases storing mental activity are impressive they still don't have the ability to record every human's brain activity continuously for later parsing. They instead sample activity in time and save it. They only have clips of a particular mind, throughout their life, stored for later review. This cuts down on the 1.4 Terabytes per second collective human geopsyche throughput that would be required. 1.4 Terabytes x 31,536,000 seconds in a year = 44,150 Pentabytes per year. The capabilities of computer storage will reach that soon enough for DoD budgets. So reviewing a particular targets brainwave clips, allows them to appear like they have been with the subject of experiment for their entire life through demonstration of knowledge of earlier events.

This brings up the topic of criminal law. Think about how we could perfectly convict crimes against other people. In the movie "Minority Report", their society is able to prevent all premeditated violence. Only crimes of passion continue to be unstoppable. What a shame our government keeps this technology secret for pathetic military and spy uses.

Good try, NSA (1)

ComputersKai (3499237) | about 8 months ago | (#46308509)

If the government controls the media, like in some certain countries, what's to stop them from making it seem like their citizens are oh-so happy and not totally oppressed? Keep in mind media control is still very powerful, and there are still people who think the Onion is a(n) legitimate/accurate news source.
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