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Snowden Says No One Listened To 10 Attempts To Raise Concerns At NSA

timothy posted about 5 months ago | from the in-violation-of-the-go-along-to-get-along-directive dept.

Government 273

As reported by the Washington Post, Edward Snowden denies in no uncertain terms the idea that he failed to go through proper channels to expose what he thought were troubling privacy violations being committed by the NSA, and that he observed as a contractor employed by the agency. The article begins: "[Snowden] said he repeatedly tried to go through official channels to raise concerns about government snooping programs but that his warnings fell on the deaf ears. In testimony to the European Parliament released Friday morning, Snowden wrote that he reported policy or legal issues related to spying programs to more than 10 officials, but as a contractor he had no legal avenue to pursue further whistleblowing." Further, "Elsewhere in his testimony, Snowden described the reaction he received when relating his concerns to co-workers and superiors. The responses, he said, fell into two camps. 'The first were well-meaning but hushed warnings not to "rock the boat," for fear of the sort of retaliation that befell former NSA whistleblowers like Wiebe, Binney, and Drake.' All three of those men, he notes, were subject to intense scrutiny and the threat of criminal prosecution."

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broken link (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442289)

Broken link is broken.

Re:broken link (2)

houstonbofh (602064) | about 5 months ago | (#46442317)

Probably only in the US... ;)

You don't say !! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442433)

Broken link is broken

Is it possible that NSA has infiltrated Slashdot's editorial team ?

Or is it because of Cold Fjord ?

Probably because they weren't privacy violations? (-1, Flamebait)

mozumder (178398) | about 5 months ago | (#46442291)

You know those filters used to remove American's data from surveillance? Those were there to PROTECT our privacy.

So what exactly is Snowden complaining about? Why would the US government have classified filters if their objective was privacy violations?

He really didn't think his cunning plan all the way through. That's the problem you get with mouth-breathing libertarians, like the kind that infest white-male nerd sites.

Psst, wanna buy a bridge ? (5, Funny)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 5 months ago | (#46442445)

You know those filters used to remove American's data from surveillance? Those were there to PROTECT our privacy.

So what exactly is Snowden complaining about? Why would the US government have classified filters if their objective was privacy violations?

He really didn't think his cunning plan all the way through. That's the problem you get with mouth-breathing libertarians, like the kind that infest white-male nerd sites.

First of all, I may be a nerd but I ain't a "White Male".

Second of all, Slashdot never advertises itself as a "White Male Site".

Thirdly, I got a bridge to sell, wanna buy it ?

Re:Probably because they weren't privacy violation (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46443071)

That's the problem you get with mouth-breathing libertarians, like the kind that infest white-male nerd sites.

Better to be a libertarian than FUD pushing, lying scumbag like yourself.

Broken Link (1)

faldore (221970) | about 5 months ago | (#46442293)

Broken link is broken

No href in story (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442295)

Your story is missing a href.

The first fell in to one group (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442303)

There was no second group.

Re:The first fell in to one group (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442325)

There was no second group.

If I told you what happened to the second camp, someone would have to kill both of us (and anyone else that read the reply).

Broken link: Here ya go (4, Informative)

wjcofkc (964165) | about 5 months ago | (#46442321)

Re:Broken link: Here ya go (5, Informative)

houstonbofh (602064) | about 5 months ago | (#46442349)

Other than it says it was from the Washington Post... http://www.washingtonpost.com/... [washingtonpost.com]

Re:Broken link: Here ya go (1, Offtopic)

wjcofkc (964165) | about 5 months ago | (#46442375)

I more than suspect they all read very similar. As far as I am concerned as long as the actual "link" is denies in no uncertain terms the idea that he failed to go through proper channels it's up for grabs. Get a grip.

Washington Post Link (5, Informative)

Nuke Bloodaxe (582098) | about 5 months ago | (#46442335)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/... [washingtonpost.com]

Re:Washington Post Link (0, Offtopic)

rmdingler (1955220) | about 5 months ago | (#46442579)

No one listened to him according to that link's account either.

Now they're paying attention.

All he wanted was a little r...s...p...e...c...t.

HOT HOT HOT (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442859)

I think Snowden is h-h-h-h-HOT!

I'd fuck him is a HOT second.

But, clearly, he's getting what he needs from the FSB, which is clearly teen boys.

The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (5, Insightful)

mellon (7048) | about 5 months ago | (#46442337)

...the more star systems will slip through your fingers!

Seriously, if this is true, it's a pretty good illustration of why tin-pot dictators throwing the book and the kitchen sink at whistleblowers are a far more serious security threat than the whistleblowers themselves.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (5, Insightful)

Stormwatch (703920) | about 5 months ago | (#46442355)

Whistleblowers are not a problem; they are the solution.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442435)

And where's the justice for the people who ARE the problem?

Where are the charges of perjury before congress? Of subverting the constitution of the united states? Arguably, of treason, given the massive damage done to the reputation and interests of the US by the actions supported by a few individuals?

We know that individuals who have done one millionth of what the NSA has done have met harsh punishment at the hands of the law. Where's the punishment here?

Ah yes, I forgot. Laws only apply to the "little people".

The root of the problem lies with ... the people ! (4, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 5 months ago | (#46442509)

And where's the justice for the people who ARE the problem?

Before we can get justice we need to look for the root of the problem ...

Who are the one keep electing those assholes into Washington D.C. ?

We, the people.

Who are the one letting the government destroying the liberty of the country ?

We, the people.

What kind of justice you are after ?

After all, we do deserve the very kind of government that we keep on electing.

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (5, Interesting)

Immerman (2627577) | about 5 months ago | (#46442689)

>After all, we do deserve the very kind of government that we keep on electing.

Only if there's a viable alternative. At present we have two parties that are both owned, for the most part, by the same people, and kept in power by gerrymandering and the systemic weakness of first-past-the-post elections. Given the realities on the ground it's no wonder that the third party candidates tend to be extremists and nutters that don't actually expect to get elected - no responsible individual would choose "third-party politician" as a career path unless they had a size large ace up their sleeve.

Not to mention that the parties themselves cheat. (4, Interesting)

Ungrounded Lightning (62228) | about 5 months ago | (#46442923)

At present we have two parties that are both owned, for the most part, by the same people, and kept in power by gerrymandering and the systemic weakness of first-past-the-post elections.

Further, the people in control of the major parties themselves cheat when someone not of their faction tries to go the primary/caucus root. They change rules in midstream, miscount, break meeting rules, physically attack supporters of opponents, pass out bogus delegate slates, and a host of other dirty tricks.

For a list of the things the Republican have done to just one challenger in the last two cycles, check out the archives of any of the several sites where Ron Paul supporters congregate. (For example, The Daily Paul.) [slashdot.org]

The Democrats do this as well. (The riots in Chicago in 1968 were largely a public reaction to the party machine repelling a primary effort by Gene McCarthy, popular with the antiwar movement, in favor of Hubert Humphrey. The Paul/Romney nomination battle was eeriely similar.)

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (3, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | about 5 months ago | (#46442929)

That's our fault too. Try getting people to vote for a third party, even here on Slashdot, and they'll start giving you arguments that amount to, "the wrong lizard might get in."

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442699)

I don't vote you insensitive clod...and I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!

But, but... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442701)

If you don't vote Republican, those darned Libruhls are dun gonna make yer kids gay!

If you don't vote Democrat, you're a fucking bigoted idiot!

And if you vote Libertarian, you're some kind of anarchist lunatic!

After all, we do deserve the very kind of government that we keep on electing.

No, no, it's the fault of those people, don't you see? If only we didn't have to deal with that other party!

Re:But, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442775)

Pardon, we libruhls do not make yer kids gay. We tell them that it's okay to be gay, and let nature take its course. Huge difference.

Whooosh ! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442847)

I can't help but hearing a very loud " Whoooosh !! " noise.

Wonder why ?

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (5, Insightful)

deego (587575) | about 5 months ago | (#46442789)

Many slashdotters defend "We the people" saying that people have no choice. They claim, for example, both Dems and Reps. take turns tightening the noose whereas people actually like liberty.

The fact is that Dems. and Reps. *both* are very sensitive to opinion polls.

The problem *is* We the people. The fact that we slashdotters don't realize in our slashdot bubble is that a *majority* of population does believe that TSA is necessary, and that TSA are good for the nation.

So, I agree. Ultimately, the real problem is not Dems or Reps. It's We the People. By and large, the policies of countries do tend to reflect what We the People believe.

You can't excuse the populace as a whole and simply blame the "system."

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (2)

BradMajors (995624) | about 5 months ago | (#46442885)

The majority of the people believe the TSA is necessary because that is what they have been told.

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (4, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | about 5 months ago | (#46442933)

People who don't dig more deeply into the issues than "that's what we were told" deserve the worst of all governments. We are very lucky, presuming your assertion is correct.

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442963)

"We," the slashdot audience are a bit different than "we, the people." We represent a small subset of the voting populace.

So, "we" get the government "they" deserve.

Yes, we can get even more involved. And yes, that will do some good. But we simply cannot control the minds of the other voters, as that isn't how it works. If "they" aren't buying what "we" are selling, there is only so much "we" can do.

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46443011)

Well, go out and tell them differently.

Sitting at home complaining about what the people "have been told" is unproductive. You have to actively argue that what they were told is wrong, not just point out that it was told to them.

If you can convince people with influence -- even if that influence is on a small scale -- that you have the better argument, you get a lot of leverage.

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (2)

penix1 (722987) | about 5 months ago | (#46442949)

The fact is that Dems. and Reps. *both* are very sensitive to opinion polls.

Umm... No they aren't or they would pay attention to the polls that rate Congress in the single digits to lower teens.

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (4, Insightful)

Jeremi (14640) | about 5 months ago | (#46442807)

Who are the one keep electing those assholes into Washington D.C. ?

We, the people.

You're right, of course, but on the other hand any process that involves collective decision-making by 130 million people is bound to act more like a one-move-per-year version of Twitch Plays Pokemon [twitch.tv] than any kind of particularly rational decision-making.

Add to that the amount of money and effort that is regularly channeled towards manipulating the voting public towards the ends desired by those with resources to do so, and it's impressive that the system works even as well as it does.

But I wouldn't blame the system's deficiencies on individual voters -- the fact is that any individual or like-minded community of voters could in fact do a better job for their particular needs, but at the national level, at least, coherent communities of voters tend to largely cancel each other out, leading to unpredictable results. Which I suppose leads us to the argument that more power should be delegated to lower levels of government rather than the Federal level...

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (1, Insightful)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 5 months ago | (#46442825)

Before we can get justice we need to look for the root of the problem ...

As a cyberneticist I have analyzed the problem using Information Theory as applied to the flow of information between multi-scale complexity information pools (of which everything from atoms to brains to agencies to governments can be classified).

The root of the problem is information disparity. Secrets themselves. The larger and more complex the information pool the more important it is for other pools to be fully aware of its internal state in order to maintain autonomy.

Re: The root of the problem lies with ... the peop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442881)

You can have all the information available, but if folks have no problem with what the NSA is doing and have no problem being spied upon because they think it keeps them safe and they think "if you do nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about", then what?

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (1)

sjames (1099) | about 5 months ago | (#46442891)

The problem is that we keep getting a 'choice' between death or bungee. Quit blaming the victim and look in to that problem.

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442939)

What a bunch of victim blaming bullshit. Please continue spreading your cheeks for the prison-industrial complex. You may feel responsible as a voter too stupid to make a difference. Personally I've gone above and beyond my call of duty during the Ron Paul Revolution only to watch those efforts fail under the weight of the "Get out the (uninformed) Vote!!!11" campaign of the federal political machine.

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442987)

That's of course assuming that we can even elect a government official who both isn't corrupted into being another member of the existing system, and can actually have a voice without being a part of that apparatus.

It's not "we the people" who are the problem, it's the political wing of the country. They don't represent us, they represent themselves. The more you study it, the more obvious that becomes. Many of them even think they're doing good for many people when they're really just supporting the infrastructure they were voted in to "fix".

No, it's not a problem that simply voting in someone else can solve. And it's not something that even a large number of people can change easily. The Tea Party, for all their frustratingly incoherent and impractical principles, are the only evidence you need. They were quickly co-opted and become just another arm of the machine they wanted to fix.

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46443003)

> Before we can get justice we need to look for the root of the problem ...

No. We. Don't. This "go after the big fish" is exactly how street gangs manipulate police, and prosecutors, to leave them alone while terrorizing their neighborhoods. And it's exactly how small-scale con artists, industrial polluters, abusive bureaucrats, and spammers stay in business. They're not deemed "big enough" to prosecute, and are instead left in place as an endemic problem. Expose them directly, which is easy to do if you simply bother to verify the many reports, and you can strip the funding collected for their activities and the power garnered by their leaders.

Re:The root of the problem lies with ... the peopl (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 5 months ago | (#46443067)

Who are the one keep electing those assholes into Washington D.C. ? We, the people.

Personally I think not enough of you people are getting off your arses to vote - hence more arseholes get in. If US politics had more of a level playing field instead of being a game for the rich and obsessed there may be a bit less foul play.

Re: The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader.. (1)

AvitarX (172628) | about 5 months ago | (#46442993)

What's the argument for treason? I say this because I'm worried that the arguments for treason that people use are so weak as to include both Snowden and Manning.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 5 months ago | (#46442465)

Yes, they dissolve readily.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (0)

ahabswhale (1189519) | about 5 months ago | (#46442407)

"Seriously, if this is true..."

It's extremely unlikely this is true. Think about it...

He's a sysadmin at the NSA, which means he's supposed to be maintaining their servers -- not looking through classified materials. So if he were to report to his superiors about his concerns with any of these highly classified programs, he'd be admitting to looking at information he should never touch. If he did anyway, he would have been shit-canned immediately and investigated. So, it sounds like a complete pile of horseshit to me.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (3, Insightful)

mclearn (86140) | about 5 months ago | (#46442425)

You can understand the nature of the programs you are maintaining without viewing the material they collect.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (1, Insightful)

ahabswhale (1189519) | about 5 months ago | (#46442475)

No you cannot. There would be no reason for him to know anything about these programs at all. He only needs to understand how various servers need to interact with each other, load requirements, etc.. Also, the DoD is pretty big on the whole "need to know" concept. When I was in the military and working with confidential information, this was stated over and over again. I'm pretty damn certain they wouldn't be cool with a sysadmin having such broad knowledge of their programs.

I work at a place where the sysadmins are more than welcome to know any gory detail they want about the software but really don't know jack shit about it. Why? Because they don't really need to and they don't really care.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442539)

When I was in the military and working with confidential information...

So you were basically a grunt with little or no access to anything of any real classification...

Let me explain this to you as slowly and with as few multi-syllable words as possible:

Yes, I would like fries with my meal. Thanks!

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442541)

Not everyone is dumb. Some people actually think and do care. He obviously understood the ramifications of what was going on and he reported it. No one cared and the programs still exist. Now he has leaked all this shit and WE ALL UNDERSTAND but not the NSA nor the GOVERNMENT.

So what's your argument here? Put him in jail because he understood things he was not supposed to understand and then we're all fine? The programs don't really exist?

Fine, put him in jail, but not before putting thousands if not tens of thousands of others in jail first - the ones who created and the ones who didn't report these systems.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442927)

Oh, puhleez. Maintaining systems without reviewing the backups and transactions, or understanding their network and software requirements, is voodoo sys-admin. And they *should* care, like a tailor cares about the fabric in the suit they make you and what size your desk jockey lardbutt is.

Snowden also wasn't military. He was a civial contractor. The NSA *is not military*, because they're not not part of the DoD, their command hierarchy does not have military ranks, and they're not subject to various military codes of justice. They could not do their jobs if they were, because the US military codes of justice would do *not* permit the abusive domestic surveillance the NSA has been doing for the last few decades, and the personnel would face not just a civilian court. They would face court martial..

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46443063)

The NSA *is not military*, because they're not not part of the DoD,

Since when? Last I checked the NSA was 90% Military staffed and definitely under the DoD.
http://www.nsa.gov/about/leadership/index.shtml/ [nsa.gov]
Notice those funny stars on the man on the left's shoulders? Those indicate he is a General, specifically he is a four star general from the army. The NSA is definitely military.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (2)

AK Marc (707885) | about 5 months ago | (#46442965)

So, you are ordered to connect a port labeled "Sprint secret illegal wiretap" to a server.

I don't know if I've ever worked somewhere where the email admin didn't read employee email for fun. Every email admin I know has done it.

Any sysadmin that doesn't know what the servers he administers does, isn't a good sysadmin.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (0)

ahabswhale (1189519) | about 5 months ago | (#46443027)

You don't just read email for fun at the NSA. Do I really need to explain this to you?

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46443099)

You don't just read email for fun at the NSA.

Clearly they do read email for fun at the NSA which is the major problem people like Snowden have with the NSA. Perhaps you meant to say that such activities were well regulated and logged so if Snowden or other sysadmins were doing it, then his superiors would know about it? Because if that's some sort of evil that deserves Snowden being fired...then the NSA needs fired, obviously, as we the people through a system of government never gave them a warrant--nor could we under how our Constitution is constructed--to engage in the scale of snooping on emails of Americans.

Oh, sorry, I got side tracked. You were trying to smear Snowden, again?

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (2)

sjames (1099) | about 5 months ago | (#46442979)

YES, you absolutely can. Have you ever been a sysadmin? Do you have any powers of observation whatsoever?

Sure, officially the sysadmins know nothing. Just like officially the postmaster never looks at a user's email at all, even when diagnosing the user's email problem. Gotcha!

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (1)

ahabswhale (1189519) | about 5 months ago | (#46443037)

There's a big difference between being a sysadmin at the NSA where information is purely on a need to know basis and being a sysadmin at Target. It's a completely different world.

I wish that were true (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46443057)

I think you give too much credit to the security scrutiny that goverment agencies perform. They are run by regular people that take shortcuts, use global passwords, etc. It's not suprising to me that someone with knowledge of how the IT infrastructure is structured could manage to reap information from it. The need to know thing is something that sounds great in movies. Not everything you see on TV is true.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442443)

Seriously? As a sysadmin, if I happened to see something dodgy while doing my daily routine work (imaging servers, checking logs, etc), I'd probably feel the need to say something, too. Just because you CAN see everything doesn't mean you're snooping for it.

Re: The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442467)

Being a sysadmin often involves doing more involved work than just maintaining a file host for other people to put their bits on.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442625)

Even if he was able to learn enough to have concerns through his legitimate duties as a sysadmin, the NSA has some serious internal security issues if someone made it that clear that they did not agree with what the NSA was doing and yet kept him on their payroll.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442655)

Agreed. Not to mention that Snowden himself, in a fit of narcissism, claimed that he took the job for the sole purpose of leaking information. I find it unlikely that someone under those circumstances would pursue legal whistle-blowing channels.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442747)

I agree, and even if he did. His revelation of the surveillance of US citizens here within the country did need to be revealed. I don't think he did it the right way but it did need to be done.

BUT!!!

Everything he has revealed since then is not covered under the blanket of protecting the Constitution. The fact that we monitor or attempt to monitor foreign heads of state. Not a constitutional issue. Fully within the scope and mission of the intel community. That the Aussies or Brits have similar programs for their citizens, again not his place to reveal as a whistle-blower, again fully within the scope of the intel community mission.

I defended him after the first revelations, I felt he was a whistle blower and while I disagreed with how and where he revealed his information I considered such actions and location acceptable precautions for what he was doing. But as always with these traitors, he wasn't satisfied with the 15 min of fame being a whistle-blower gained for him, he wanted more, so he stole over 1.7 million documents to ensure he had plenty to keep his name in the press as he sold our intelligence collection efforts to the highest bidders.

The man is a traitor. If he were truly doing it just out of concern for protecting our rights as citizens, he would have stopped at the surveillance inside the US.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (2)

buss_error (142273) | about 5 months ago | (#46442771)

He's a sysadmin at the NSA, which means he's supposed to be maintaining their servers -- not looking through classified materials.

That's a problem the NSA needs to look into. Unauthorized people seeing classified data is a problem.

So if he were to report to his superiors about his concerns with any of these highly classified programs, he'd be admitting to looking at information he should never touch.

Another problem for the NSA to look into.

If he did anyway, he would have been shit-canned immediately and investigated.

Third time's the charm, right? Right?

So, it sounds like a complete pile of horseshit to me.

Except so far no one is saying "yeah, we looked into his complaints, they were completely baseless."

By the way, my tag line is the same tag line I've used for most of the years I've been reading Slash Dot.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442811)

I am suspicious of this claim too. If he revealed what he had seen or even said something about anything classified that he didn't have a need to know, he would have been in trouble.

Yes, there should be an independent 'secret' investigator general court that hears these cases and explains why the government has approved them. But, you don't need to make the information public to foreign governments, criminals, conspiracy therorists, libertarians, and terrorists to bring down the whole system because you have a personal problem.

And yes, the NSA and DoD (among others) all need to get their act together and figure out how to deal with classified digital files instead of paper. It is pathetic that they aren't password protected and encrypted. It is also bad that these were on a network accessible by someone at the SysAdmin level. Have an archive, but have it off network, and require access from one team of people to get to old files. It shouldn't be hard to setup.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (1)

ahabswhale (1189519) | about 5 months ago | (#46443021)

Most of your post is irrelevant and off topic. As for the one part that isn't...

The NSA is already on record as saying he never brought these issues up and they said this long before he came out with this allegation.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442901)

He had worked in other capacities for intelligence agencies before, including as analyst.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 5 months ago | (#46443087)

If he did anyway, he would have been shit-canned immediately and investigated

In a fictional place with those rules you imply maybe, but we don't know about the levels of access in the NSA or even exactly the scope of his job.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442533)

Tarkin. Lord Tarkin. Among other inaccuracies.

Re:The tighter you clench your fist, Lord Vader... (4, Funny)

mellon (7048) | about 5 months ago | (#46442581)

Damn, you're right. Too bad /. doesn't let me edit out my mistakes. Anyway, Tarkin's dead, so he's not going to complain.

Cost effectiveness (4, Interesting)

whoever57 (658626) | about 5 months ago | (#46442555)

Perhaps the criticsm of the NSA should focus on the very poor use of resources. Billions of dollars are used to spy on US citizens with no benefits, while the administration appears to have been caught completely unprepared for the events in Crimea.

Perhaps a re-allocation of those resources would be beneficial to US interests.

Unless, of course, the real reason for the spying on US citizens has nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with suppressing free speech and legal dissent.

Re:Cost effectiveness (1)

mellon (7048) | about 5 months ago | (#46442589)

You say "the real reason" as if there could only ever be one reason for doing something...

re: spying on US citizens (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442841)

must b tru...i saw it on good wife 2nite;-)

Re:Cost effectiveness (1)

FrostDust (1009075) | about 5 months ago | (#46443089)

the administration appears to have been caught completely unprepared for the events in Crimea.

How do you know that the events in Crimea aren't occurring the way the US administration wants?

The NSA could not admit wrongdoing. *CAN not. (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442347)

He exposed a situation that HAD TO BE ignored "for the good of the surveillance effort and thus, the country" - had they admitted it, it would have to be shut down.

Instead they've managed to kind of slide on the issue of legality, nobody is taking it up with the SCOTUS successfully because "nobody has grounds" to sue without being able to prove damages (due to the secrecy, catch 22 et al) so basically, the NSA strategy of "ignore it until the next war or administration" seems to be successful at least in keeping the sword of judicial damocles off their heads.

What use is whistleblowing if they're able to ignore the law and the 9 robed wizards don't wish to enforce the law? None. "Checks and balances" is now "blank checks"

Re:The NSA could not admit wrongdoing. *CAN not. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442405)

Furthermore, once you've realized this IS NOT the first time the US intelligence agencies have LIED to protect themselves "and the country by extension",
(Pearl Harbor, USS Maddox, JFK, RFK, USS Liberty, Iran/Contra, 9/11, Iraq, UBL etc etc) and that this "protect the quo, for the nation" attitude has supplanted
the checks and balances *and truth* that USED to run our country prior to the cold wars of monkey business...

how do you hold your head up and wave the flag, knowing all that? An honest man can't.

sounds like challenger where it takes a big event (2)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 5 months ago | (#46442371)

sounds like challenger where it takes a big event to get the PHB's to under stand what the issues really are.

why wait? (0)

clecol (2505612) | about 5 months ago | (#46442389)

Why would he wait this long to say that he went through all the right channels to voice his concerns? I think he might have had a few more people on his side if he would have said this from day one.

Re:why wait? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442417)

He hasn't waited to tell anybody. He's been saying it all along. Don't confuse the manner in which the news is reported as a reflection of reality.

This was reported now because he put his comments in an easily citable letter to the European Parliament.

Re:why wait? (3, Interesting)

Aighearach (97333) | about 5 months ago | (#46442423)

Plus, he only claims to have talked to some coworkers/supervisors. What he didn't do was go where a whistleblower is supposed to go; for example he could have gone to Senator Wyden who is on the Intelligence Committee and had publicly raised concerns about these programs. If you're part of a secret program and need to "blow the whistle," you're not blowing it from the inside. You have to go to the people doing the oversight, which here in the US are elected members of Congress.

Re:why wait? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442483)

Even Ellsberg went to congress. Shoulda woulda coulda, if he was truely serious about this he would have documented his attempts to communicate this up the chain (retained emails, etc...).

What I find hard to believe is him being overtly against the mission of his employers and still retaining access to the computer systems for which had access to all the top secret+ information on it. Anyone with a Top Secret clearance who starts acting "funny" won't keep their clearance for long.

Also how did he get hired at BA if he had been pulled off assignment for tampering with the computer systems when he was working for the CIA? He got relieved from his duty position but still managed to get access to a contractor which should have contacted his former employer....

Re:why wait? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442631)

What is it with the constant disbelieving of Snowden?

Of the things that we now know the truth or falsity of, everything he has said so far has been true, while most of what the NSA has said has been a lie. Learn from experience, people.

Astroturf? (5, Interesting)

Ungrounded Lightning (62228) | about 5 months ago | (#46442947)

What is it with the constant disbelieving of Snowden?

One of the things Snowden exposed was systematic disinformation campaigns by the spooks to achieve various political goals, including the discrediting of their own critics.

Perhaps these comments are examples of such a program in action?

Re:why wait? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442489)

Senator Wyden has already demonstrated his incompetence to address, if not his active support of, such illegal programs. And by reporting it in the USA, Snowden would have been easily dropped in a deep, deep pit with no hope of testifying.

Re:why wait? (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about 5 months ago | (#46442977)

He wasn't an employee, so some means of escallation weren't available. And whistle blowing by effectively going to the board of directors to blow the whistle about the lower middle-management is a bit off-putting. And, based on my personal experience, doesn't work anyway, once you commit job suicide by going above the head of everyone above you. But in my case, I was already on my way out. The company was bankrupt within the year.

Re:why wait? (4, Insightful)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about 5 months ago | (#46442549)

I think he might have had a few more people on his side if he would have said this from day one.

He would also have a lot more credibility if he named names instead of saying he warned "10 officials". Which ten? Why not name them? Does he think they deserve protection?

Re:why wait? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442895)

If he names them, there will be people screaming that it is irresponsible to out national security workers.

Re:why wait? (5, Insightful)

Weirsbaski (585954) | about 5 months ago | (#46442925)

I think he might have had a few more people on his side if he would have said this from day one.

Maybe he anticipated how they would try to play the game?

Snowden: I have docs showing ...
NSA: no you don't
Snowden: here they are
NSA: ok, but you should've worked within the system
Snowden: I told 10 people in the system
<--- where we are today
NSA: no you didn't
Snowden: here's who I told and when ...
NSA: ok, but <another attempt to change the focus to Snowden...>

Complete load of crap (3, Funny)

tomhath (637240) | about 5 months ago | (#46442485)

Basically he says that he told his supervisors that, in his opinion, a spy agency shouldn't be spying. To back up that opinion he states that he doesn't know of any good that has come from the intelligence collection. And now he wonders why people at the spy agency where he worked told him to go back to his desk and do his job.

Re:Complete load of crap (5, Insightful)

vux984 (928602) | about 5 months ago | (#46442641)

Basically he says that he told his supervisors that, in his opinion, a spy agency shouldn't be spying.

So if a general decides to annex kansas and a soldier objects you are going to post that he "basically told his supervisors that in his opinion a military organization shouldn't be conducting military operations." and his opinion should be ignored.

Yeah, good grasp of the situation. The NSA is a spy agency, with specific objectives. Their activities were so far removed from those objects that they are completely unjustifiable, and a collossal waste of effort and money.

Re:Complete load of crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442713)

Fascist pig. I bet you read 1984 and thought: I want that. Psychopath.

Re:Complete load of crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442855)

Try harder Agent smith

Who should face prosecution? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442491)

From the article: "Both Obama and his national security adviser, Susan E. Rice, have said that Snowden should return to the United States and face criminal sanctions for his actions."

Perhaps the Obama administration could set an example of following US law by appointing a special prosecutor to investigate the legality of the recent revelations? It's always good to practice what you preach!

well, they LISTENED alright (1)

turkeydance (1266624) | about 5 months ago | (#46442511)

and heard. HURA.

All I hear (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442685)

is BLAH ... BLAH ... BLAH ...

sNOwden Listen to this (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442687)

sNOwden decided to make our nation look completely idiotic in the eyes of the world , decided to put its citizens at risk further and now you should come back to the USA and stand trial you fricking fiend.

Re:sNOwden Listen to this (1)

Agent ME (1411269) | about 5 months ago | (#46442695)

Nice try, NSA.

Re:sNOwden Listen to this (4, Insightful)

penix1 (722987) | about 5 months ago | (#46442921)

sNOwden decided to make our nation look completely idiotic in the eyes of the world , decided to put its citizens at risk further...

I would say those that dreamed up the spy program, implemented it, got it sanctioned and enshrined in law and defend it made our nation look bad in the eyes of the world. All Snowden did was leak it's existence. If you don't want the US made to look bad, then maybe the US shouldn't be doing things that make them look bad.

Snowden, yet another lie. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#46442691)

He had no legal avenue? Huh? That is a lie. Every U.S. citizen has a legal avenue -- regardless of who you are.

snowden's got your Signals Intelligence leaks here (2)

strstr (539330) | about 5 months ago | (#46442693)

Satellite and radar warfare. Used against the American people and non-terrorists populations globally.

http://www.wikileaks-forum.com... [wikileaks-forum.com]

The proper channels... (4, Insightful)

russotto (537200) | about 5 months ago | (#46443059)

...are those connected directly to /dev/null. There was no "right way" (in the eyes of the US Government) for Snowden to do anything about these programs, because (again in the eyes of the US Government) these programs are perfectly fine.

To object to the way Snowden did things, suggesting there was a better, effective, way of doing it that he somehow overlooked, is pure disingenuousness on the part of President Obama.

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