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UN Report Reveals Odds of Being Murdered Country By Country

samzenpus posted about 4 months ago | from the protect-ya-neck dept.

Crime 386

ananyo (2519492) writes "A new UN report (link to data) details comprehensive country-by-country murder rates. Safest is Singapore, with just one killing per 480,000 people in 2012. In the world's most violent country, Honduras, a man has a 1 in 9 chance of being murdered during his lifetime. The Economist includes an intriguing 'print only interactive' (see the PDF) and has some tongue-in-cheek tips on how to avoid being slain: 'First, don't live in the Americas or Africa, where murder rates (one in 6,100 and one in 8,000 respectively) are more than four times as high as the rest of the world. Next, be a woman. Your chance of being murdered will be barely a quarter what it would be were you a man. In fact, steer clear of men altogether: nearly half of all female murder-victims are killed by their partner or another (usually male) family member. But note that the gender imbalance is less pronounced in the rich world, probably because there is less banditry, a mainly male pursuit. In Japan and South Korea slightly over half of all murder victims are female. Then, sit back and grow older. From the age of 30 onwards, murder rates fall steadily in most places.'"

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386 comments

I've made a decision (5, Funny)

uvajed_ekil (914487) | about 4 months ago | (#46721471)

In order to live as long as possible, I have decided to have gender reassignment surgery to become a woman, and I will move to Antarctica and start a utopian lesbian society, since there are no murders there. I haven't worked out the details yet, but it seems like a no-brainer.

Re:I've made a decision (1)

R3d M3rcury (871886) | about 4 months ago | (#46721493)

You don't have to go that far--just move to Liechtenstein. [wikipedia.org]

Re:I've made a decision (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722133)

Nah, I think Antarctica is probably a little more lively.

Re:I've made a decision (1)

master5o1 (1068594) | about 4 months ago | (#46722157)

To Liechtenstein would be going too far for a Kiwi like me.

Re:I've made a decision (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721585)

I wouldn't recommend it. Violence against trans and gender-queer people are off the charts.

Re:I've made a decision (1, Insightful)

fredprado (2569351) | about 4 months ago | (#46721633)

There is a LOT less violence against women, gays and transgender people than there is against men.in general..The average of assaults against gay men and transgender men is way bellow the average in assaults against men in general. But just because they are part of a minority their injuries and deaths are suddenly more important through some weird exercise of rationalization.

Re:I've made a decision (3, Funny)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about 4 months ago | (#46721915)

Oh you and your facts.

Re:I've made a decision (2)

davester666 (731373) | about 4 months ago | (#46722011)

man on LGBT violence appears more prevalent because it always makes the evening news...because the victim always looks great.

Re:I've made a decision (4, Funny)

mjwx (966435) | about 4 months ago | (#46722459)

man on LGBT violence appears more prevalent because it always makes the evening news...because the victim always looks Faaaabulous

Erm.. fixed that for you.

Re:I've made a decision (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722045)

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your news letter

Re:I've made a decision (0, Troll)

epyT-R (613989) | about 4 months ago | (#46722343)

I know you're joking, but that is exactly how twisted left wing ideology gets when it has festered too long.

Re:I've made a decision (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722355)

I haven't worked out the details yet, but it seems like a no-brainer.

The choice of hair color will be blond I assume?

OpenData (1, Offtopic)

manu0601 (2221348) | about 4 months ago | (#46721477)

Come on, public data published in .xlsx...

Re:OpenData (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721513)

Only open source fundamentalists have an issue with that. In the real world, most people can read it.

Re:OpenData (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | about 4 months ago | (#46721557)

It's not just the closed format, but the whole formatting of the file itself. Anyone wanting to do any half-decent analysis of this data is going to have to do a fair bit of formatting before this "data" can be turned into anything useful like a CSV. The current layout is good for little more than looking at. They may as well have released it as a PDF or a chart!

Re:OpenData (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721631)

LOL yep. Just try getting Excel to sort that data.

Fuck you Excel, where's my flying car?

Re:OpenData (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about 4 months ago | (#46721581)

With proprietary data, you never can tell really. Compatibility is never nearly as good as advertised. The idea that government should be transparent, or that Robber Barons shouldn't be free to run amok and charge tools every 5 miles is not a new idea. Nor is it one unique to "open source fundementalists".

You were unintentionally funny when you came up with that.

Biff would be proud.

Liechtenstein (2)

Kardos (1348077) | about 4 months ago | (#46721515)

here I come!

shenanigans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721529)

Different countries are well known to report their violent crime and murder numbers differently. Some countries don't count murder if it wasn't initially believed to be murder but the crime was later recategorized. Other countries just underreport. There is substantial more variation, but you get the idea - this report is misleading at best and outright lies at worst.

Why does /. always accept these articles? We've seen this trash before, and it's always debunked. It's like dealing with the phelps family...

Re:shenanigans (2)

magamiako1 (1026318) | about 4 months ago | (#46721573)

I'm willing to bet that Western Europe and Canada numbers are actually pretty accurate. Same with the US numbers. The only places that might underreport are likely to be Russia and 3rd world countries.

The bigger question you need to ask is why is the US so far behind its first world brethren?

Re:shenanigans (-1, Flamebait)

jedidiah (1196) | about 4 months ago | (#46721599)

It's pretty obvious really. The US has festering pockets of 3rd world poverty that skew the numbers.

While bleeding hearts blither on about gun control, bad economic and social conditions continue without any one paying attention to the real problem.

So while these numbers might reinforce the smugness of some Euro-trash, they aren't as significant as all that for most people. And for the rest, the situation is actually far more dire than these "statistics" indicate.

It makes you wonder if the rest of the numbers are misleading tripe too.

Re:shenanigans (2)

rubycodez (864176) | about 4 months ago | (#46721683)

not poverty, instead places where family structure has broken down and subcultures do not instill any respect for human life. I know places where poor people are not killing each other. poverty is no excuse

Re:shenanigans (1)

quenda (644621) | about 4 months ago | (#46722361)

You can speculate on the root cause of murder, but simple demographic data explains the different numbers between the US and other developed countries.

The fact is that everywhere, homicide rates differ dramatically by age, gender, race and ethnicity. Some countries show bigger variation than the US does.
If you control for those variables, the difference mostly goes away.
e.g. compare data for whites of the same age and gender to Western Europe, US Hispanics to Latin America, or African Americans to Africans, and the US data does not look so different.

I don't see why this fact should give rise to cries of racism, when it is just as much sexist and ageist.

Re:shenanigans (2)

mellon (7048) | about 4 months ago | (#46721729)

No offense, but us bleeding hearts also blither on quite a bit about income inequality. I think we blither on about that a lot more than we do about gun control, actually.

Re:shenanigans (2)

Mashiki (184564) | about 4 months ago | (#46721611)

Depends on the countries methodology on "homicide" because in one country and another the methodology aren't the same. And organizations are sloppy at going through a year or even several years worth of data to adjust it. My personal favorite was always the suicide and sexual assault numbers. Europeans love to fudge the SA numbers by reclassifying the crimes, and Japan loves to fudge suicide incidents as "not suicide."

Re:shenanigans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721725)

More guns?

Re:shenanigans (3, Funny)

Michael Woodhams (112247) | about 4 months ago | (#46722039)

Guns don't kill people. Gun-obsessed people kill people.

(I suspect the high velocity lumps of lead may play a part too.)

Re:shenanigans (4, Insightful)

Loki_1929 (550940) | about 4 months ago | (#46722321)

Exactly, which is why you always see mass shootings at gun shows, gun stores, and gun ranges where there's lot of guns, lots of ammunition, and lots of gun-obsessed people.

Thankfully, there are some places where that sort of thing isn't tolerated, like schools, malls, and US Postal offices. Ahh yes, gun-free zones, where violence is a thing of the past.

Re:shenanigans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722093)

The bigger question you need to ask is why is the US so far behind its first world brethren?

Guns, lots of them!

Re:shenanigans (1)

lordholm (649770) | about 4 months ago | (#46722469)

There has been research into differences between US states. Some of them, predominantly the one sharing a border with Canada have murder rates similar to Europe.

This has among other things been attributed to the more prevalent honour-culture in the southern part of the US (which has been experimentally validated).

Re:shenanigans (4, Insightful)

plover (150551) | about 4 months ago | (#46721617)

Yes, because the U.N. is known for shoddy science.

The data files include the source of the figures, generally reported by the WHO instead of the national police in those countries where the official figures may be suspect. If there are official complaints about the figures, they'll likely come from the ambassador of Bananazuela who will claim that the figures for his tourist-friendly country are too high.

Re:shenanigans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721777)

U. N. Owens is known for mass murder and a bizarre method of reporting it.

Re:shenanigans (2)

arielCo (995647) | about 4 months ago | (#46721923)

The Venezuelan government hasn't published violence statistics for years, so NGOs and journalists query the morgues every week. But that doesn't stop the nomenklatura from denouncing the state governed by the most prominent opposition candidate as having "the most murders" (it's not clear, and not too relevant, whether they mean count or rate).

Re:shenanigans (3, Insightful)

green1 (322787) | about 4 months ago | (#46721649)

Most of the places where this is a problem are the less developed countries, ones where the data is already suspect for different reasons anyway, and where the numbers are often already high. The really enlightening bits are comparing the first world countries, all of whom have a very similar definition of murder (this is actually much better than generic"violent crime" stats where definitions do vary largely)
What really stands out is that most of the first world countries fall in a range of 1-2 murders per 100000 people per year, except the USA which is more than double that. Always amazing to see how different the USA is than other countries that should be so similar (Canada, Australia, New Zealand, even England) and how the public opinion in the USA is so against any efforts at improving the situation (better education. Health care for all, less inequality, gun control, all the things that have proven to work in the rest of the western world)

Re:shenanigans (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721785)

I wouldn't point the blame just on guns. Part of it is that the US has a drug problem far worse than it is in other developed countries. Go to Europe, meth isn't an issue. Asia, same thing. Same with crack.

This is why crime in the US tends to be violent and brutal rather than calculated. This is because druggies tend to not calculate anything past what to grab to turn into the fence for cash, then turn cash into meth.

Re:shenanigans (2)

green1 (322787) | about 4 months ago | (#46721825)

If you read my post, I didn't point the blame "just at guns", in fact they were last on my list after education, health care, and inequality. However now that you bring it up,. Evidence from the rest of the world indicates that guns are a problem, not a solution. I'm not willing to say how much of an effect they have, as I believe that it is the culture, more than the firearms themselves that is the problem, the guns are just a symptom of that culture.
Why the USA is so determined to avoid universal health care and good, accessible, education, is beyond me though, those four items I listed are the biggest differences between the USA and the rest of the western world where murder rates are less than half what they are in the USA, trying to follow those good examples set elsewhere could only help Americans, it's too bad Americans don't want the help.

Re:shenanigans (4, Insightful)

O('_')O_Bush (1162487) | about 4 months ago | (#46721969)

I have more of a problem with you cherry picking Canada, Australia, NZ, and England, despite those countries having very little in common with the U.S. and causes for violent crime.

The U.S. falls into the category of large, moderately urbanized countries with large open borders to less industrialized countries, high wealth and wealth disparity, and ethnically diverse populations. Most of the western world is not that way at all, and those properties breed the root cause of the majority of violent crime in those countries, which is the illegal drug trade.

Countries that share those features include Russia, Brazil, Mexico, South Africa, and China. Surprise, surprise, those other countries are all at least or much worse off then the U.S. is, despite some having the strictest gun ownership laws in the world (Russia), all having socialized healthcare, and the US. Actually having a pretty good education system for most of the country (not underserved inner-city areas) when reported the same way other countries are.

China is the outlier, in that it does not have either high violent crime rates or a violent drug trade, but my theory is that this is because the vast majority of the country lives in squalor and acts as a buffer to help shield the cities, and those cities have their crime rates dilutes by the shield.

Simple facts are that gun control reduces gun crime but increase violent crime. Education and healthcare raise the standard of living, but don't provide disincentive for crime in the drug trade. You are right about inequality as a facet of this.

Re:shenanigans (2, Funny)

green1 (322787) | about 4 months ago | (#46722023)

My bad, I'll stop confusing the USA with a first world country.

Re:shenanigans (2)

Jiro (131519) | about 4 months ago | (#46722081)

The US has inner cities with high crime rates that skew the average, Not only are these inner cities majority black, which makes these statistics very politically incorrect, they also have the strictest gun laws in the country.

If you don't live in one of those places (whatever your skin color), you don't really need to worry about the "high USA crime rate", And we don't have universal health care outside them any more than we do in them, either.

Re:shenanigans (2)

antifoidulus (807088) | about 4 months ago | (#46721855)

Drug use rates in east Asia are pretty low, at least due in part to geographic isolation and/or really strict enforcement. The Singapore government probably puts more people to death for drug crimes than people actually die from drugs or drug related incidents there.

Japan being an island and South Korea for all intents and purposes being an island(their northern border isn't exactly what I would call "porous") has allowed them to strictly enforce drug imports because there are very very few places where an individual can get into the country. In addition to being paranoid about "organic" drugs(opium, cocaine etc) getting into the country, they also crack down on manufactured drugs like meth, to an almost draconian extent. For instance in Japan Nyquil and it's ilk are illegal simply because it can be used as an ingredient in meth, which sucks when you have a cold because Japanese cold medication sucks in my opinion....

Re:shenanigans (2)

epyT-R (613989) | about 4 months ago | (#46722415)

or we could decriminalize drugs and let the users kill themselves quietly with their habit.. There would be no need for them to rob anyone.

Re:shenanigans (-1, Flamebait)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | about 4 months ago | (#46721817)

the public opinion in the USA is so against any efforts at improving the situation (better education. Health care for all, less inequality, gun control, all the things that have proven to work in the rest of the western world)

1. Better education - Any suggestions? US has the best university level education in the world by far. As for lower levels, we throw more money at it than most countries and get worse results so go figure. The fact that lower level education is one of the few things in the US that is entirely controlled by the government and also a rare case where almost entire workforce is unionized probably have something to do with it, as well as demographics.

2. Health care for all - Healthcare that produces the best results in the world (WHO report under Responsiveness category) is available for all. It does not come cheap and especially not free, which is the way it should be.

3. Less inequality - This can only be achieved by sacrificing economic liberty which is something Americans traditionally don't like to do even at the cost of performing worse as measured by some statistic.

4. Gun control - This is so stupid that it's hardly worth replying to. Plenty of countries that have widespread gun ownership have very low murder rate, and also plenty of countries where gun ownership is strictly controlled have 10 times or more the murder rate of US.

Re:shenanigans (4, Insightful)

green1 (322787) | about 4 months ago | (#46721847)

The US murder rate is more than double that of the rest of the western world. Despite the four points I listed being the biggest differences between your country and the other Western democracies. Your personal refusal to even consider any possible improvement in that situation is endemic of the problem that causes your chance of being murdered to be more than double that of any other western citizen.

I'm glad you're OK with your odds, after all, you choose them.

Singapore (5, Insightful)

Camembert (2891457) | about 4 months ago | (#46721551)

I have lived 2 years in Singapore, and indeed it is a tremendously safe place. Nobody worries about taking a shortcut through an alley, something not done in most western cities. It does mean that my local friends were often uncomfortable when traveling abroad, all countries seem dangerous after you've experienced Singapore.

It may not be a democracy, but we have to admit, they do a lot of things RIGHT. It is a pleasure to live there, as long as you have no political ambitions.

Re:Singapore (0, Flamebait)

MildlyTangy (3408549) | about 4 months ago | (#46721647)

It is a pleasure to live there, as long as you have no political ambitions.

And as long as you absolutely hate chewing gum.

Also, dont go there if you have no problems committing the heinous and abhorrent crime of "jay walking".

Actually, make sure you dont walk around your house naked while over there. Thats illegal too.

Also, realise that hugging without permission is highly illegal.

Also, be *very* careful if you dont beleive the local religion. Sedition is a very serious crime in Singapore.

Come to think of it, if you are a westerner, just stay away, period.

Re:Singapore (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721671)

You're an idiot.

Re:Singapore (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721971)

And as long as you absolutely hate chewing gum.

Chewing gum can now be legally obtained from pharmacies.

Also, dont go there if you have no problems committing the heinous and abhorrent crime of "jay walking".

The police force mostly doesn't give a fuck. Unless you get out of your way to get their attention. And/or, you're an idiot.

Actually, make sure you dont walk around your house naked while over there. Thats illegal too.

Only if you can be seen from outside. I'm typing this sans pants.

Also, realise that hugging without permission is highly illegal.

You're an idiot.

Also, be *very* careful if you dont beleive the local religion. Sedition is a very serious crime in Singapore.

Which one would that be? Also, check your definition of sedition.

Come to think of it, if you are a westerner, just stay away, period.

Come to think of it, if you are MildlyTangy, just stay away, period.

Re:Singapore (5, Insightful)

clarkkent09 (1104833) | about 4 months ago | (#46721707)

Draconian punishments for even minor offenses will make a place safe, doesn't mean that they are doing it right.

  If we were doing a 10th of what they do (mandatory capital punishment for possession of 15g of heroin, heavy whipping for graffiti, 3 months in prison plus whipping as a mandatory minimum sentence for foreigners overstaying their visa etc) the same people who admire their low crime rate would be calling it fascism.

Re:Singapore (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721735)

Fascism - when people who can't do the time for their crime whine about the laws. If you don't want to get caught, don't do any crime.

Re:Singapore (5, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | about 4 months ago | (#46721869)

it's a city state

the policies that work for one small rich densely populated tightly controlled area does not apply to large areas of rural and urban, rich and poor

singapore offers no lessons about how to run real countries

Re:Singapore (1)

Camembert (2891457) | about 4 months ago | (#46721953)

I partly agree, yet China is gradually implementing a Singapore-like model throughout the country with considerable economic success, but I agree that safety and general well being are far from the Singapore model at the moment.

Re:Singapore (0)

green1 (322787) | about 4 months ago | (#46721957)

You could check with the rest of the western world though that have a murder rate less than half of that in the US despite large rural areas, dense urban areas, rich people, and poor people. Seems everyone except America can figure this out to some extent, maybe see what the rest of the western world does differently than the US (most likely accessible education, universal health care, less inequality, and that dreaded gun control)

Re:Singapore (3, Interesting)

Camembert (2891457) | about 4 months ago | (#46721873)

Look, I am a normal dude who doesn't involve in criminal activities. Life is good then in Singapore.
If you think you can have a career in drug dealing, then you would indeed be very, very dumb to try that in Singapore. The result is that the city state is visibly suffering far less from drug abuse issues than nearly any other city.
And indeed, neither the government, NOR THE LOCALS, are fond of graffiti. If you want to be an asshole and try it anyway, well you know the risk associated.
And yes, even the locals call it a "fine" city as their are fines for a lot of misdemeanors, yet the fine system did change behaviour. As an amusing example, if I am remembering well, you can have a fine for not flushing in a public toilet. This had an effect, you have to keep in mind the poor uncultivated beginnings of Singapore.
Currently the behaviour of most everyone is changed, nobody even wonders if they should apply basic hygienic procedures.
I agree that whipping is draconian and overkill towards foreigners overstaying their work visum. It is luckily enough of a deterrent to strongly discourage the practice.

In general however it is not at all a fascist police state. I have lived there, I experienced it. I would call the non-democratic government rather a kind of "enlightened despotism", and I (and my fellow expats back then) had to admit that they did a lot of things very, very well indeed.

Interestingly, Singapore in the 1980s was the model for Deng Xiaoping who during a visit noticed how you can have good prosperity and strong government influence together. This is how he started the reforms that made China into the economic powerhouse that it is now.

Re:Singapore (1)

Nemyst (1383049) | about 4 months ago | (#46722141)

Look, I am a normal dude who doesn't involve in criminal activities. Life is good then in Singapore.

First, they came for...

Re:Singapore (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722163)

Draconian punishments for even minor offenses will make a place safe,...

There are many major differences between Singapore and a country like the USA. For example, 85% of the people in Singapore live in government-owned apartment buildings [wikipedia.org] and public transportation is pervasive - with only 12 cars per 100 people [wikipedia.org] . For comparison, the USA has about 80 motor vehicles per 100 people [wikipedia.org] ).

It's an interesting question which differences are most responsible for the relatively low crime rate: it's not necessarily the punishments.

Re:Singapore (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721751)

I live in a top 20 (population) major US city and I walk through the alley all the time, regardless of the time of day, and I feel completely safe and I have never had any issues at all. Who knew people were afraid to walk down alleys? Not me.

Re:Singapore (1)

Camembert (2891457) | about 4 months ago | (#46721815)

It was an example. What I want to say is that it is very difficult in Singapore to find a dangerous area. The most "seedy" place is probably the Geylang district, yet it is very safe as well. I have been in multiple cities, originally I am European, but have travelled to many cities all around the globe. The general safety and quality impression in Singapore is truly remarkable. In these two elements, Singapore and Tokyo are both excellent.

Re:Singapore (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721987)

Lo Pan:

Indeed!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Little_India_riot

Re:Singapore (1)

Camembert (2891457) | about 4 months ago | (#46722319)

Let us put things in perspective.These unfortunate riots were very exceptional. It has been more than 20 years since Singapore experienced something similar.

Re:Singapore (1)

quantaman (517394) | about 4 months ago | (#46721913)

Singapore has 13.8 executions per 100,000 [wikipedia.org] , which is more than the 12.5 murders per 100,000 in Africa (though I don't know the execution rate in Africa).

Sure the executed Singaporeans have (generally) broken the law, but how many murder victims are killed because they're involved with crime? And if you can blame someone for getting caught up with a gang that pressures them to commit crime then why can't you blame someone for remaining with a violent spouse who might harm them?

I'm not sure I'd feel much safer there after all.

Re:Singapore (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722083)

No, is not safe, you are two or three times more likely to be killed than in most of Europe. Sure, murder rate is low, but Singapore per-capita execution rate is 13.8 death per 100,000 population. Compare that to the 0.8 murders per 100,000 population at Spain or Denmark.

I wonder what else you think they do right, besides jailing homosexuals or killing drug users.

Re:Singapore (1)

Camembert (2891457) | about 4 months ago | (#46722357)

Again, if you are into drugs, then it is best to stay away. Everyone in Signapore, not just the government, prefers you being not in their country.
Honestly, what is bad about that? Drugs are linked to increased criminal activity. The city state successfully scared off the smugglers.Perhaps the USA should take an example in this matter instead.

Regarding "jailing homosexuals", you are plain wrong. There are a good number of lbgt people in the city. It is true, very unfortunately it is still somewhere in the laws that it is forbidden, but to my knowledge it is only referred to in case of rape, paedophile misdeeds and the like, making the related punishment heavier. The city is not persuciting the lbgt community.

And your statistics are ridiculous, if you do not indulge in obviously criminal activities you will not get executed.

What is so difficult about leading a normal, non-criminal lifestyle?

Re:Singapore (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722351)

I find it amusing that after living many years in the UK, I never once saw a violent crime. However, within the first two years of living in Singapore, I witnessed a murder in Changi Village just a few feet away from me. Swings and roundabouts.

So to summarise (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721607)

Dangerous places in descending order:

[Places where there are wars or massive corruption]
America
[The rest of the world].

Re:So to summarise (1)

green1 (322787) | about 4 months ago | (#46721933)

Afghanistan actually was doing better than the USA until 2012. And Iran is still better. As is Egypt. So I'm actually thinking it's more like:
[Places where there are wars or massive corruption, including the USA]
[The rest of the world]

Too bad Americans fight tooth and nail against anything that could help improve their odds. (Education, health care, income equality, gun control)

Brazilian rates (2)

esperto (3521901) | about 4 months ago | (#46721615)

It is sad as a brazilian to see that we are less than 3% of global population and yet we are responsable for 11% of all murders worldwide (eleven-fucking-percent!!), and I would gess that this number may well be higher because there are a lot of people that just go missing and either there is no one to report it or the police just don't give a damn. We may not be as beligerant as the US or Russia, but we are very agressive against ourselves. And this is only for murders, don't even count violent death in traffic, which would probably double the amount of deaths. :(

Re:Brazilian rates (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721937)

Yeah, you brazilians...

Next, be a woman (4, Insightful)

rossdee (243626) | about 4 months ago | (#46721623)

A women may be less likely to be murdered but more likely to be raped.

Re:Next, be a woman (1, Interesting)

green1 (322787) | about 4 months ago | (#46721749)

Rape is a horrible, horrible crime. But for all of that, the victim, can live a full and normal life after the fact. A Murder victim, by definition, can not. There are however some good reasons for studying murder rates specifically. Many crimes are reported very differently from one jurisdiction to the next, making comparison extremely difficult, rape is actually very difficult that way because in many of the worst places for it the reporting would show almost no cases due to lack of reportjng, or in some cases lack of an actual crime in that jurisdiction's system of laws. murder is much less prone to this issue. The same problem shows up for "violent crime" some places consider the mere possession of a weapon during a crime to make it "violent" others require the use of the weapon, others require an actual injury, others will only classify one or two specific crimes in the category at all.
Using murder rate as a proxy for violence in general has it's flaws, but it is still quite enlightening to look at.

Re:Next, be a woman (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721829)

Relevant, how?

rape is *the* lowest category of violent crime (3, Insightful)

SuperBanana (662181) | about 4 months ago | (#46721853)

A women may be less likely to be murdered but more likely to be raped.

That's mostly because the FBI doesn't consider prison rape to be a crime; I think the estimates I hear are typically around 200,000-300,000 male prison rape victims a year, which comes close to making the rape stats 50/50. There's also very little interest in figuring out the underreporting rate for male rape victims in open society; hell, in many places it isn't even a crime for a woman to rape a man because of the way rape was defined.

But even if you ignore all that: I'll take those odds. Rape has the lowest occurrence rate in the US of any violent crime, and not only that, it's declined the most over the last decade or two as well. Men are several times more likely to be KILLED. Last time I checked, that was worse.

By the way: case clearance rates for female homicide victims are higher than for male homicide victims.

You can either listen to the gender issues folks, who make it sound like violence against women is a HUGE CRISIS, or you can read the BJS statistics. Women have been, and continue to be, a protected class in the US.

Re:rape is *the* lowest category of violent crime (1)

seyyah (986027) | about 4 months ago | (#46721931)

By the way: case clearance rates for female homicide victims are higher than for male homicide victims.

You can either listen to the gender issues folks, who make it sound like violence against women is a HUGE CRISIS, or you can read the BJS statistics. Women have been, and continue to be, a protected class in the US.

Want to bet that the clearance rate for female homicide victims has something to do with the fact that they disproportionally killed by people close to them?

Re:rape is *the* lowest category of violent crime (3, Informative)

jma05 (897351) | about 4 months ago | (#46722295)

When I was in US, I was very puzzled at the lack of empathy in public discourse towards prison rape. This was especially surprising since US leads the world in incarceration rate (3.5 times the supposedly âoeevery thing is a crimeâ Singapore) - so it is not even as if prison is reserved for the worst of the worst, with non-violent offenders frequently jailed, let alone the argument of punishing as sentenced and nothing more.

However, I don't understand your chain of reasoning. You argued that there is significant amount of rape when prisons are taken in account and then go on to say...

> Rape has the lowest occurrence rate in the US of any violent crimeâ.
> Men are several times more likely to be KILLED.

Clearly not, even with just using numbers you list.

According to Human Rights Watch though
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/200... [hrw.org]

âoe4.5 percent of the state and federal prisoners surveyed reported sexual victimization in the past 12 months. Given a national prison population of 1,570,861, the BJS findings suggest that in one year alone more than 70,000 prisoners were sexually abused.â

According to this somewhat dated stats...
http://www.oneinfourusa.org/st... [oneinfourusa.org]

Rape is far, far more common compared to homicide, anywhere in the world.

> You can either listen to the gender issues folks, who make it sound like violence against women is a HUGE CRISIS, or you can read the BJS statistics. Women have been, and continue to be, a protected class in the US.

Yes, it has declined according to BJS. But the starting numbers are so high, that it is still considered a large problem.

Re:Next, be a woman (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721903)

That ain't so bad. So long as the woman isn't murdered afterwards of course. They just have to tolerate it until it's over with. Besides, it's sex - it might even be fun. All in all, far better than being murdered.

Re:Next, be a woman (1)

Nephandus (2953269) | about 4 months ago | (#46722457)

Silly, feminists make it quite clear. Rape victims are better off dead. They just don't like it when you say it that way...

Re:Next, be a woman (1)

quantaman (517394) | about 4 months ago | (#46721917)

Best to be an expert cross-dresser who can choose the safest gender for the occasion.

Re:Next, be a woman (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722289)

Can't rape the willing.

Re:Next, be a woman (1)

Nephandus (2953269) | about 4 months ago | (#46722445)

Not if you count "forced to penetrate". They don't even count non-vaginal penetration in my state. Your assumption's based on intentionally skewed definitions attempting to bury male victims, but what's new?

Alcohol (2)

puddingebola (2036796) | about 4 months ago | (#46721705)

The Economist article mentions that other studies have determined that alcohol is the most common factor in murders in Australia, Finland and Sweden. Searching for more studies related, I noticed the WSJ has an interesting site called Murder in America that allows you to sort and visualize murder information http://projects.wsj.com/murder... [wsj.com]

Re:Alcohol (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722007)

That database made me realise I'm 3x more likely to be killed by my wife than I would be likely to kill her.. violence against men has to stop!

How many innocent people are killed by cops? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721739)

I imagine America ranks really high on that one.

Likelyhood of being murdered in America (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722219)

Actually, you're eight times more likely to be murdered by a policeman than a terrorist in America.
Google it if you don't believe me. [cato.org]

Tongue-in-cheek (1)

GigaplexNZ (1233886) | about 4 months ago | (#46721761)

The Economist includes an intriguing 'print only interactive' (see the PDF) and has some tongue-in-cheek tips on how to avoid being slain:
<snip>...sit back and grow older

You're not kidding about the advice being tongue-in-cheek.

People In Honduras Must (1)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about 4 months ago | (#46721791)

Play lots of violent video games!

a fact not mentioned: women kill more men, too (3, Interesting)

SuperBanana (662181) | about 4 months ago | (#46721793)

At least in the US, women kill more men than women.

Also, while gender issues folks are more than happy to do all sorts of mental gymnastics for other things: nobody is willing to touch "why do men commit robbery more?" with a ten foot pole because then they'd have to admit that traditional gender roles for men are still very much in place, men are judged heavily by their economic status, and men are committing crime by and large to house, feed, and clothe their families.

Lots of assistance for single mothers out there, like WIC. Single dads? Shit outta luck.

Guess what percentage of the US homeless population is male? Depending on the area, anywhere from 67% to 80% (NYC, for example, is 82%.) Oh, and the percentage of women in homeless shelters is higher than the percentage of homeless women total, showing women are better served.

Male privilege, my ass.

offtopic? Seriously? (0)

SuperBanana (662181) | about 4 months ago | (#46721863)

Who moderated my comment as "offtopic"? The story is about the odds of being murdered!

I hate these numbers (2)

holophrastic (221104) | about 4 months ago | (#46721841)

I've said it before, so I'll say it again. These murder counts are totally useless for anyone who doesn't work in a morgue.

I really don't worry about *all* of the murders. The vast majority of them can't possibly affect me. I want the real number of murders -- the ones of which I ought to be frightened.

I don't care about gang-on-gang violence, I'm not in a gang. I do care about caught-in-crossfire gang-shooting victims.
I don't care about spouses killing spouses nor parents killing children. I don't fear my spouse nor my children.

What's left is a very small miniscule number, at least in my country, of intentional killings from random shootings, caught-in-crossfire, crazy co-workers, mistaken identities, and the like. But no one has ever presented those numbers.

Re:I hate these numbers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722059)

David Hemenway in his book, Private Guns, Public Health, does give a breakdown of the relationship, if any, between victim and perpetrator of homicide by guns in the USA. Of course, there are other means to kill; I don't know if there are any reports about the numbers on those.

It's been years since I read his book, and it was based on crime stats from the late 1990's to early 2001's. The most likely situation was intra-family killings, husbands killing wives, wives killing husbands. I do remember reading the ratio in the general public was 60-65% were husbands killing wives, except in the black community where it was 50/50. This factoid was offered as a (not the) reason why the O.J. Simpson murder jury, which was majority black, did not believe the prosecution assertion about battered women. The idea that in the black community women don't lie down and take it, I guess.

Back to killings within the family, after husbands killing wives, the next most common in-family killing was mothers killing sons, followed by sibling killings. Partly to make sense of this, how many mothers killing sons is there an aspect of self defense? Also, opportunity: children are more likely to be in the sole custody of the mother after a divorce, fathers are more likely to be out of the picture.

After family came friends in Hemenway's count, followed by acquaintance. There is a blur there, but again opportunity, or time spent near or with friends, neighbors and co-workers, plus interactions with 'meaning' and entanglements.

Last on Hemenway's count were stranger killings, but they were not rare. But the quip some have said to be single with no children may have some truth. This may be an area where different countries differ more, with robbery of strangers leading to more stranger killings. But, also, countries just differ: see Thailand leading the world, if you want to call it that, if wives amputating husband's penis's a while.

Speculation: how many killings are unrecognized murders? No body found, or murder by slow poison--thought to be more likely a women's crimes.

Note: Hemenway is pro-gun control. He is professor at Harvard. He uses epidemiology methods and meta-analysis. His approach to gun control would be to use scientific studies to compare crime rates, in this case shootings across different jurisdictions. Whatever your position on gun control, his numbers are impressive.

Re:I hate these numbers (0)

holophrastic (221104) | about 4 months ago | (#46722091)

I don't read anonymous comments. If you don't value them enough to put your name to your arguments, then they aren't worth reading.

Lesbians in Singapore (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46721861)

Must have it great...

what that leaves out (4, Informative)

stenvar (2789879) | about 4 months ago | (#46721881)

What the UN report leaves out is one important factor in the US: about half of the perpetrators and victims of homicide are young African American males, completely out of proportion to their prevalence population; that's what accounts for most of the difference between US and other Western murder rates.

Gun control isn't going to help reduce those murder rates. Nor can those murder rates be explained through racism or bias in the justice system. Until politicians get serious and address this issue, African Americans are going to continue to get killed and locked up at a frightening rate. Unfortunately, our current president has been totally ineffective in doing anything about it.

Re:what that leaves out (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722299)

enlisting them to conquer and pillage the world would be the most effective solution.

Re:what that leaves out (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722365)

Don't (entirely) blame the politicians for the state of gun violence in the African American (look, just say 'black' and stop with the PC bullshit) community.

A heck of a lot of the violence stems from the culture that many blacks find them growing up and living in. Gangs, gang-banging, talking and acting all "gansta", worshiping guns and drug use both socially and in the media. Such a lifestyle is an identify to a lot of these people, and it's reinforced consistently inside and outside of their community. GTA: San Andreas was all about this gang/thug lifestyle and it's one of the best-selling and critically acclaimed GTA games out there (not having a go at the GTA series, only demonstrating that the themes present in San Andreas are obviously seen as cool to a lot of folks, hence the reinforcement of their culture).

Go watch The Wire (particularly season 4, which focuses on kids and their experiences with this culture) for a realistic depiction of how blacks behave and how gun violence is always going to persist, regardless of how politicians act or attempt to resolve the problem. In a word - the US is fucked up.

Singapore rate is actually worst than Nicaragua... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722033)

..if you account for Capital Punishment. From Wikipedia:

"Capital punishment is legal in Singapore. The city-state had the second highest per-capita execution rate in the world between 1994 and 1999, estimated by the United Nations to be 13.83 executions annually per hundred thousand of population during that period."

That's right, in Singapore you are 35 times more likely to be kill by the State than murdered.

In Japan and South Korea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46722107)

More than half of all murder victims are female because half of them are frequently beaten by their loving boyfriends and husbands. Often it will go too far.

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