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The Internet Is Now Part of the Crime Scene

samzenpus posted about 4 months ago | from the looking-back dept.

Crime 145

theodp (442580) writes "Over at Forbes, Kashmir Hill examines the disturbing Internet footprint of Santa Barbara shooter Elliot Rodger. 'A decade ago,' observes TechCrunch's John Biggs in The Internet Is Now Part Of The Crime Scene, 'a crime scene was a photo and a report. Now it is a sea of interconnected tracings, the murderer bobbing loosely in social media and the forums. We can watch him make his way through these straits, we can watch the madness growing, and we can watch his terrible end, all through murk of media. We are quick to judge and we are quick to look at his wake and say, definitively, that he was this or he was that. He was frustrated. The frustration grew. He went to a place he thought would help. It didn't.'"

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Nobody move a finger! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092373)

This is official police business. Ctrl-Z and wait to be questioned.

Re:Nobody move a finger! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092459)

Ctrl-Z and wait to be questioned.

Awarded 'Best use of Ctrl-Z in popular culture' in a while!

Re:Nobody move a finger! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092701)

This is official police business. Ctrl-Z and wait to be questioned.

Well, I suppose I could hit Ctrl-Z, but even hitting it twice isn't gonna undo the drugs I flushed down the toilet when you announced yourself.

Re:Nobody move a finger! (4, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 4 months ago | (#47092721)

OT but a little funny: this reminds me of a time when I was a vax/vms guy and working with a hardcore unix (ultrix) guy. I was in good old EDT editor (remember that?) and asked the guy for some help on something. he came over to my terminal, hit ctl-z (thinking it would just put my current job in the bg) but, in fact, in EDT editor ctl-z SAVES THE FILE AND EXITS!

oops. he felt embarassed, as well he should have. I was not an emacs guy at that point, yet...

never walk up to someone's terminal and just hit ctl-z. never go full retard, either.

Re:Nobody move a finger! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094483)

never walk up to someone's terminal and just hit ctl-z. never go full retard, either.

Why are you repeating yourself?

the crime scene is still... (5, Insightful)

gl4ss (559668) | about 4 months ago | (#47092377)

..the places where he made the shootings and possibly where he prepared.

the internet is not a "crime scene"(for this) any more than the postal system and newspaper opinion pieces were 30 years ago..

Re:the crime scene is still... (4, Insightful)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 4 months ago | (#47092447)

Exactly. I don't see how this is any different than interviewing a person's neighbors, family, coworkers like they did 15 years ago (and still do now). Or reading the person's journal, or notes or manifesto they left behind. The only difference is that these were private, whereas now anyone can post whatever they like on the internet for people to see. But youtube or blogs are essentially nothing more than the 21st century version of the manifesto or suicide note.

Re:the crime scene is still... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092495)

Hey, either you buy into the idea of "thought-crime", or you are a criminal. Your choice!

Not so fast.... (2, Interesting)

westlake (615356) | about 4 months ago | (#47092611)

the internet is not a "crime scene"(for this) any more than the postal system and newspaper opinion pieces were 30 years ago..

A crime scene is a location where a crime took place or another location where evidence of the crime may be found.

Crime scene [wikipedia.org]

Rodger's e-mails and posts to the Internet would be admissible as evidence of premeditated murder.

Once again, a self-made video, uploaded to the world via YouTube, is at the heart of a horrific news event.

Elliot Rodger, the 22-year-old man who authorities say killed six people in the Santa Barbara, Calif., area before fatally shooting himself late Friday, posted at least two self-pitying videos to the video-sharing site shortly before he went on his rampage.

The videos --- in which Rodger calmly and chillingly discusses his sexual frustrations and intent to ''slaughter'' those he claims harmed him --- were removed by YouTube after viewers flagged them. But they were repeatedly re-posted on the site as copies spread across the Internet.

Videos are routinely flagged by YouTube's users; the company reviews videos that have raised concerns and removes them if they violate its community guidelines. Among other things, the guidelines prohibit videos displaying ''predatory behavior, stalking, threats, harassment [and] intimidation ... and inciting others to commit violent acts. ... Anyone caught doing these things may be permanently banned from YouTube.''

Law enforcement authorities in Santa Barbara said they are analyzing Rodger's videos, which he apparently has posted online since 2012.

Elliot Rodger video removed by YouTube [washingtonpost.com]

Finally, when exactly did the angry rants of a mass murderer become rightfully characterized as a manifesto? Although Rodger's document is a manifestation of emotional disturbance, it hardly qualifies to be called a manifesto. A true manifesto reflects the political ideology of a formidable leader of men, a political force to be reckoned with. Nowhere in his 141 pages does Rodger describe his manuscript in such a way.

So why should we?

Why mass killers need to explain their plan [usatoday.com]

Re:Not so fast.... (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 4 months ago | (#47094359)

'Manifesto' ship sailed with the unibomber.

If that psychotic rant was a manifesto then everything is.

Manifesto is anything too complicated for a reporter to understand, they just assume it's genius/rational.

A: Because it breaks the flow of a message (4)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about 4 months ago | (#47092829)

Q: Why is starting a comment in the Subject: line incredibly irritating?

I'll take Usenet for $200, Bob. (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 4 months ago | (#47093307)

Answer: Top Posters

Re:the crime scene is still... (2)

sillybilly (668960) | about 4 months ago | (#47094255)

moreover it's easy to fake and orchestrate evidence against someone on the internet... where are the witnesses? server logs can be tinkered with, etc.. and digital data doesn't leave a footprint like handwriting or erased handwriting.. and handwriting can be forged too.. everything in the world can be forged.. except gold and platinum and such, as substances, because of their high density.

Munch of Bunch of Frito Cron Chips CRUNCH! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092383)

A bunch of em. Yeah!

Cry me a river (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092427)

"He was frustrated. The frustration grew. He went to a place he thought would help. It didn't."

Booooo hooooo hooooo! The poor, set-upon murderer, let us all shed a tear for the real victim! /sarcasm

The internet is not part of a crime scene (1)

kruach aum (1934852) | about 4 months ago | (#47092455)

Any more than the houses of witnesses are. It is a place where information about the accused may be found.

Re:The internet is not part of a crime scene (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094647)

My internet is already plastic bagged and tagged!

Double-Edged Sword (5, Insightful)

Jason Levine (196982) | about 4 months ago | (#47092475)

Like pretty much any invention mankind has ever come up with, the Internet can help or hurt. If someone is feeling upset over something, they can turn to friends online for help and can get assistance, support, and guidance through their troubled times. Or, if they aren't as lucky or don't look in the right places, they can find abuse hurled at them, idiots saying "Why don't you just kill yourself" and the like, or an echo chamber where particular prejudices are amplified and focused against Group X being the cause of all of the person's problems.

This isn't really that different from a distraught person seeking help from others via face-to-face social interaction except that the "kill yourself" jerks are probably somewhat less likely to say that to a person's face. Then again, some people I've met in person don't seem to care at all if what they say/do hurts another person. In fact, they consider hurting another person as "harmless fun." These people would be jerks even if the Internet had never existed.

They are NOT friends. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092619)

If someone is feeling upset over something, they can turn to friends online for help and can get assistance, support, and guidance through their troubled times.

Internet "friends" are no such thing - they are just electronic ghosts of people. The relationship is superficial and shallow - no matter how nice it is.

Nothing beats face to face interaction with someone. Nothing.

We have mirror neurons [google.com] that allow us to connect and help with emotional regulation.

That kid didn't have adequate real personal connections. From what I've read, his family sounds pretty fucked up and mix in any mental illness this kid had (reported Aspie), you get the actions he committed.

If there was someone who was able to be a real friend to this guy (a VERY tall order considering his previous assaults, abusive actions and emotional issues), maybe - maybe the shooting wouldn't have happened.

Kids like this usually find "healthier" outlets for their rage like boxing, for example - see Mike Tyson.

It's pretty sad when folks spend all their time online and consider their online contacts as friends.

Now for the thick headed, I am NOT talking about communication with your real friends with email or posting to your friends about meeting up at Joe's Bar for happy hour. I am talking about the phony "friends" that are only online with no physical contact.

Re:Double-Edged Sword (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092737)

I think this whole sad case points to the obvious. This Rodgers boy was the unwanted child of a mixed-race breeding session. This punk's father had no attraction to women of his own kind. He had a life long habit of sexual encounters with non-white women. This boy who seemed to self identify as "white" but obviously he wasn't. It is no wonder that blonde women had no use for this boy. This boy was a half-breed, a mixed-race nothing. Why would a sane white woman want to risk mingling her pure and precious genetic heritage with a mongrel? It is sad that he he injured so many innocent people, but thank the Lord that this boy, this twisted "science experiment" in cross breeding, this punk, thank the Lord that this mutant is dead.

Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (5, Insightful)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 4 months ago | (#47092491)

No wonder people keep committing mass killings: they see the people that killed before them and see someone who was invisible, that no one paid attention to, become a household name. How many people here know the name of the person that shot up Sandy Hook, or the Colorado movie theater, this guy, or Columbine? Now, name me some of their vicitms? You can't. People that feel unstable, or feel marginalized and that no one ever notices them or cares about them, they already need mental help. If they turn to the internet, post videos on youtube or write blogs, they get pushed over the edge even more when no one watches their video, or people write negative comments. They get to the point where the only way to get noticed is to start killing people. If they do that they become famous, everyone starts talking about them. When you see yourself as only something they might see killing as the only way to become someone. Stop publishing the names of these killers, stop implicitly glorifying these people, and killings will drop. We also need to improve mental health treatment in the country, but that's a whole other topic.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092591)

Not talking about it will not prevent it from happening again.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093067)

Would make it less likely if being talked about is a motive for the crime. These guys would probably still kill some targets with a personal connection, but they'd be less focused on making a spectacle. Of course it's questionable whether you can really shutdown media coverage, it might even encourage larger-scale attacks to force public interest

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (2, Insightful)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about 4 months ago | (#47093697)

Talking about it will not prevent it from happening again.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (5, Insightful)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 4 months ago | (#47094403)

At their core these are suicides. Suicide is contagious.

Right now there are people on the edge of nutting up that are watching the attention this fuckwit is getting and thinking about it...

It's the same the world over, in Germany 'Ghost Drivers' (murderous suicides that go the wrong way on the autobahn) happen in streaks.

Reporters feed this problem. They have suggested advice (don't repeat the jackass' name constantly, report other things; don't focus on the killer.) but don't follow it.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092695)

Posting AC here, but this is something I wholeheartedly agree on.

CNN covered the whole biography of the shooter, read his manifesto out loud, and retraced his steps in very slow detail. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a monument with the guy's name on it. Of course, came the whining from the parents about how evil the gun sellers and the NRA were for not realizing their poor son was sick... but the kid was so rich, any doctor that stood in his way would likely have had a malpractice suit slammed on them or just fired.

Want to know why school shootings are popular now? Columbine basically put the two shooters on the map with a monument forever naming their names. 20 years from now, they will be remembered. 40 years? possibly. In the past school shootings were handled locally just like the Chicago suburban gangbanger crime [1] that never gets national attention. Now, the shooters are treated with war heroes and given almost the same type of burial.

Fsck that. These are criminals... why do they deserve so much time in front of the news media?

Now add to the mix schools and the pressure cooker for anyone in a public school more intelligent than normal. They get bullied 24/7 by the dipshits, the school district doesn't care unless they are on the football team, then combine that with the powerful psychoactive meds that docs throw at kids, and they start to get in their heads that in 20 years, news will say their names every year and there will be a monument in their name.

I wouldn't be surprised if the press knows this. The push for gun control laws only makes it easier because it means more soft targets. In Texas, after the guy shot up the Luby's, which got concealed carry passed, there have been multiple attempted shootings at malls. All stopped by CHL permit holders who either stopped the gunman in their tracks by just the presence of a weapon, or just took care of business before it made the news.

The press knows this. That's why the mass shooters head to "gun free zones", and when their rampage hits the news, it only gets the lawmakers wanting to enact more gun control measures. A nice feedback loop, instilling fear, and getting eyeballs. These are dream stories for the press since after the massacre, there is no danger for reporters, unlike reporting gang shootings.

For people outside the US, there is a demand for firearms. A kid that did this shooting could have easily gotten his guns from an underground metal shop in Mexico (1911 .45 pistols are 1800s tech, including the magazines.) All the lawmakers with their gun control schemes will do is cause -more- of these events to happen. The guns won't go off the street. The Mexican gangs will see that the registered weapons with serial numbers that get seized will be replaced by unregistered ones just as good but coming from factories south of the border.

So, tl;tr, the press is doing a disservice to everyone by encouraging kids whose minds are already destablized by the meds tossed at them to perform these atrocities.

[1]: The city cleaned up the garbage, so the gangs moved to the suburbs.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (1)

Ravaldy (2621787) | about 4 months ago | (#47093001)

What killer?

Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093031)

It's becoming so commonplace that the public don't even remember them long enough that it's still fresh when the next one happens. Then they say, "Oh, it's like Jared Loughner all over again." "Was he the one who shot up the theater?" "No, he's the one who shot up the congresswoman's public meeting." "Oh, yeah. Him."

We've gone from "Never again" to "This again?" to "What a shame. Did you watch the game last night?"

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (0)

roman_mir (125474) | about 4 months ago | (#47093047)

Sure, some of it is just murder advertising by the media, however here is my take on this:

this is the age of the socialist welfare state, the time when people feel that others owe them something and if they are not immediately given what they believe the others owe them, they are out to take it, steal it or murder it. This one decided that the government is not big enough to fulfil his insane desire for women to give him what he believes he had the entitlement to. So since he would not be just given it on a silver platter, he decided to take the matters into his own hands. When the collectivist mob uses government to steal from a productive minority under the barrel of a gun (call it taxes and regulations) this one wouldn't be given pussy on a silver platter, but since he is a product of this collectivist mob, he decided that violence is the correct response for this perceived 'injustice'. What can I say, he is a perfect example of the ideology that has permeated through the collectivist / socialist / fascist mob that we call 'society' today.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093211)

Indeed, comrade, let's not hold the kid to any personal responsibility. It's society's fault! Can't the sheep on slashdot see that when we say it, it's different from when the socialists and fascists and collectivists say it?

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (1)

rhodium_mir (2876919) | about 4 months ago | (#47093969)

Good point, Roman--people feeling that others owe them something is a completely new [wikipedia.org] phenomenon in this country.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 4 months ago | (#47094307)

this is the age of the socialist welfare state, the time when people feel that others owe them something and if they are not immediately given what they believe the others owe them, they are out to take it, steal it or murder it. This one decided that the government is not big enough to fulfil his insane desire for women to give him what he believes he had the entitlement to.

Oh for Crissakes, Under your interpretation, everyone in socialist states would be killing each otherm Because SOCIALISM!

Is there anything that kooks won't try to turn into their favorite axe to grind? Seriously?

Your attempt to turn this into your meme of "every bad thing in the world is the fault of liberals" is a perfect examplke of why not to many people except for other kooks take you seriously.

I sure don't.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 4 months ago | (#47094421)

So you understand how we feel about gun grabbers?

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (1)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about 4 months ago | (#47093129)

How many people here know the name of the person that shot up Sandy Hook, or the Colorado movie theater, this guy, or Columbine?

Can't remember any of them, actually. I mean, I remember that those shootings happen, but I couldn't come up with an associated name to save my life.

Were we supposed to remember them? If so, I missed the memo.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (4, Insightful)

Jason Levine (196982) | about 4 months ago | (#47093439)

One of them (Adam Lanza) I remember only because the media started going crazy with "He had Asperger's which made him shoot everyone up." As someone with Asperger's Syndrome and as the father of a boy with Asperger's this struck a nerve. People with Asperger's aren't more likely to commit violent acts than neurotypical (non-Autistic) people. In fact, they are more likely to be the recipients of violence. If they do become violent, they are more likely to hurt themselves than others and even if they hurt others it will be in an unplanned out lashing out (e.g. swinging arms because they are upset and happening to hit someone), not a carefully planned out event like these mass killings were. But, unfortunately, the media loves a simple "reason" and seized on Asperger's as "the cause." The whole affair burned Lanza's name into my memory. So it wasn't his actions that cause me to remember him but the media missteps in reporting his actions.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 4 months ago | (#47094335)

One of them (Adam Lanza) I remember only because the media started going crazy with "He had Asperger's which made him shoot everyone up." As someone with Asperger's Syndrome and as the father of a boy with Asperger's this struck a nerve.

And how. Aother thing is the business of "You have to watch out for the quiet ones".

Everyone looking for a stereotype to hang people with. Everyone wants a profile. Problem is, over enough time, and enough murders, everyone ends up fitting th profile.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094797)

One of them (Adam Lanza) I remember only because the media started going crazy

Only reason I know Klebold/Harris. I was in high school at the time, and not only the media, but freaking faculties were going scaremongering-nuts.

The other two? I know them as loony with a dipshit mother, and bad joker cosplay.

I expect I'll remember this latest jackass as Sir Daddy Bought me a BMW M'Lady of Friendzone.

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093671)

While we're at it let's stop talking about domestic violence, child abuse, human trafficking and all that as well. I'm sure if we ignore the problems they'll go away! Or even better, make it all legal. If everything is legal there are no crimes. (This is already being done with some drug-related laws)

Re:Can we stop talking about the killers yet? (1)

mcubed (556032) | about 4 months ago | (#47094821)

What evidence is there that infamy is a motivating factor behind spree killing? I'm not familiar with any.

In most of the cases I have any familiarity with (which is most of them you cited), it doesn't seem to have been much of a motivating factor at all. Nor does it in this case. From the limited amount I've read about Elliot Rodger, it seems like he did have some desire to be heard and to be noticed, at least in specific contexts. He also didn't seem too shy about talking about his problems, at least online. But none that indicates a particular desire to be famous -- there is a huge gap between despondency over feeling invisible and a craving for notoriety.

The bigger story (3, Interesting)

rolfwind (528248) | about 4 months ago | (#47092493)

is to congratulate the NSA and FBI on what a fine job they are doing spying on us. How safe they kept us with ever intrusive nets. That they can't even catch a kid whose own relatives called the police on him worried and posted out in the open that he'll kill people.

And then they go on how they need more powers to protect us. Yeah, right, more like to control the populace.

Congratulations Law Enforcement. Awesome work.

Re:The bigger story (1)

judoguy (534886) | about 4 months ago | (#47092509)

The purpose of modern government is to protect us from liberty.

Re:The bigger story (1)

ganjadude (952775) | about 4 months ago | (#47092549)

exactly. WE have been told repeatedly by the powers that be that they need the NSA illegal wiretaps to stop....this from happening. Meanwhile we hear the other day that the FBI got what they wanted the old fashoned way when microsoft told them to pound sand, and now this comes out and we see they couldnt stop a guy who pretty much said what he was going to do to the entire world publicly even!

the NSA has to go as its clear they do not do what we the people pay them to do

Re:The bigger story (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092603)

Well, duh. The Constitution keeps people for being arrested for not killing anyone yet, so clearly we need to give the government more power and tear down more of the Constitution for our own protection.

Or people could stop calling the cops when what they want are the orderlies in white coats.

But oh, "institutionalizing someone is very mean :(" - liberals. But oh, "institutionalizing someone is very expensive :(" - Republicans.

Do carry on then, the service we're getting now is better and cheaper and everyone's happy.

Re:The bigger story (3, Insightful)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 4 months ago | (#47092561)

The NSA isnt WATCHING, they are RECORDING and STORING for later use. Its a very different game.

Re:The bigger story (1)

mpe (36238) | about 4 months ago | (#47092741)

The NSA isnt WATCHING, they are RECORDING and STORING for later use. Its a very different game.

They may well be watching. Just not WHO and WHY they claim to need the ability to do so.
Which has often been the case throughout history. Any form of mass snooping appears to be far more often used against any kind of political dissent than homicidal mainiacs. It's not like he was anything like Mr Swartz...

Re:The bigger story (1)

Ravaldy (2621787) | about 4 months ago | (#47093011)

They aren't watching. The articles of couples being approached by the FBI after doing specific searches on Google tells a different story.

Re:The bigger story (1)

Nofsck Ingcloo (145724) | about 4 months ago | (#47093169)

It's a dstinction without a difference. They're lurking in the shadows between me and people (and web sites) I communicate with. It's creepy and I don't like it and I hope to find convenient ways to make it harder.

Re:The bigger story (1)

Jason Levine (196982) | about 4 months ago | (#47093457)

Unless you happen to be dating someone who works for the NSA, then they might be watching you.

Or if you are a friend of someone who works for the NSA.

Or if you just got someone in the NSA upset for some reason. Like that article you published lambasting the NSA.

Re:The bigger story (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092577)

Uhh, not the NSA's job. I know you guys believe everything negative published about them, but that's not at all, remotely, in any way, their job.

Re:The bigger story (1)

geekmux (1040042) | about 4 months ago | (#47092757)

Uhh, not the NSA's job. I know you guys believe everything negative published about them, but that's not at all, remotely, in any way, their job.

What they are doing is HIGHLY ILLEGAL by the Constitution, and yet you're concerned that what they're doing isn't on the website job description.

Whew. For a minute there I was worried we were focusing on the wrong thing.

No wonder Jack Shit is still in charge. He's getting things done alright.

Re:The bigger story (1)

Bengie (1121981) | about 4 months ago | (#47093093)

Not to mention unethical. It's already been shown that even thinking you're being observed has a negative impact on mental health. Psychologists are saying that public knowledge of active spying of everyone creates a mental cost.

Privacy is considered a basic human need. You don't need it everywhere in life, but people should feel safe in their own homes when communicating with friends and family.

Re:The bigger story (1)

sjames (1099) | about 4 months ago | (#47093141)

Neither is tipping off the DEA, but they do that all the time. Meanwhile, they keep telling us that preventing exactly this sort of thing is why they spy on us.

Re:The bigger story (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | about 4 months ago | (#47092803)

Or this is just a sign that the NRA has more political clout than the NSA.

Re:The bigger story (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about 4 months ago | (#47092891)

...and yet you would be screaming about "thoughtcrime" and "it's illegal to arrest people for precrime" if the NSA had actually alerted law enforcement. Isn't it wonderful doing the whole "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing?

By the way, what part of the NSA's charter approves domestic spying on Americans for law enforcement purposes?

Re:The bigger story (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093061)

what part of the NSA's charter approves domestic spying on Americans for law enforcement purposes?

The same part that approves of it spying on Americans for any other purposes! (ie: none, but they do it anyways)

Re:The bigger story (1)

Princeofcups (150855) | about 4 months ago | (#47092993)

is to congratulate the NSA and FBI on what a fine job they are doing spying on us. How safe they kept us with ever intrusive nets

The spying has nothing to do with keep US citizens safe. That's an absurd idea.

Re:The bigger story (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093069)

If we federalized the division of law enforcement that is currently the local police, we would have many re success with leveraging the federal-level tracking that is already occurring.

Re:The bigger story (1)

OhPlz (168413) | about 4 months ago | (#47094137)

Unless he crossed state lines, it's not a federal matter. This was the domain of California and the local authorities.

The bigger story (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092565)

is that killers aren't born. They are made by the very same people they eventually go homicidal on. This is what happens when people who get shit on for long enough start to feel like they have no other recourse. The takaway is ZOMG facebook totally saw this coming...it should be stop treating other people like shit because you are eventually going to get what you give.

Re:The bigger story (4, Insightful)

ganjadude (952775) | about 4 months ago | (#47092637)

really? because I would wager that a number of us here have been shit on for a large portion of our lives, being the geeks and nerds and all. Ive never killed anyone

Re:The bigger story (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092753)

I'd like to play the world's tiniest violin for this killer. His problems are a mere subset of mine, yet I am a well-adjusted productive member of society with no desire for revenge.

Women can't help but be attracted to good providers any more than men can help but be attracted to optimal child-bearers. The modern world has simply allowed the spread of men's ability to provide to grow far wider than any differences in hunting skill could ever account for.

Re:The bigger story (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094901)

How you stated your comment is again part of the problem for those seeking help.

Here is how you can say the same thing and not encourage further behavior or depersonalize the attacker:

"His problems were a mere subset of mine. Being a well-adjusted member of society, had this person crossed my path online or in real life, I would have done what I could to help him through his problems. Posting images of affluence and outbursts of violence do not suggest being a good provider. It's demonstrating the ability help and support and offer care to other people. We live in strange times now, with technology and dramatic social change working against both gender's natural genetic scripts."

Re:The bigger story (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093257)

Nonsense! Voices from the hellmouth NEVER existed, certainly not on slashdot. Don't Google it. Nope. Not listening. Can't hear you lalalalalalala.

Re:The bigger story (3, Insightful)

onkelonkel (560274) | about 4 months ago | (#47092687)

This is what narcissistic psychopaths do; they blame other people for their own problems. Girls don't want to go out with me. It's clearly their problem, nothing to do with me, so I will kill them all.

Re:The bigger story (2)

PPH (736903) | about 4 months ago | (#47092727)

They are made by the very same people they eventually go homicidal on.

So, the six people who died in Santa Barbara were targeted because they shit on Rodger? I don't think so.

Leaving the issue of made vs born aside for the moment, many people who go off the deep end just take their problems out on targets of convenience. Even if someone actually did 'shit on them', odds are when the snap, the shitee will just go off on the nearest person or on a group that they believe represents their tormentor.

Re:The bigger story (1)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about 4 months ago | (#47093119)

So, the six people who died in Santa Barbara were targeted because they shit on Rodger? I don't think so.

/agree. What's really sad is that this pathetic dude managed to pretty much fail even at executing his revenge on the world.

1) the successful part - he knifed his roommates. Why he disliked his roommates is not clear, since he didn't actually have to room with anyone, much less people he disliked.

2) Go to Alpha Phi and start killing the sorority babes. Alas, the Alpha Phi's didn't notice him knocking on the door, so they never opened it up so he could kill them all.

So, 3) kill random people till the SWAT team ended it. He killed a couple of girls (not Alpha Phi's), then he killed some kid. Ran into a few people (with his car), wounded others (with his gun), generally made an ass of himself.

Then shot himself....

So, his master plan, in the end, led him to kill his roommates and then shoot people at random, because the people he really wanted to kill didn't even notice him going on a shooting spree till it was over....

Re:The bigger story (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094737)

Technically yes, at least from his twisted perspective. He perceived anyone who has had sex before as an affront to him, even people just walking around on the street with a girl on their arm would enrage him. His memoir mentions that he asked his roommates if they were virgins and they all just gave him a puzzled look, and how he was furious and cried all night because of it. Probably targeted the people near the sorority house simply for being near the sorority house, as if their presence nearby was an affront to him. He was that insane.

What kind of dating approach (3, Funny)

Deadstick (535032) | about 4 months ago | (#47092595)

...will never get you a date if you (a) are a fairly nice-looking kid, (b) drive a BMW, and (c) have a father who employs actresses?

About the only one I can think of is "Let me tell you about Amway".

Re:What kind of dating approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092667)

"Let me tell you about Jesus"

FTFY.

Re:What kind of dating approach (2)

dinfinity (2300094) | about 4 months ago | (#47092693)

Have you heard him talk?

This guy pretty much defines 'utterly creepy psycho'. Just watch some of the video's discussed in TFA.

Re:What kind of dating approach (1)

hey! (33014) | about 4 months ago | (#47092823)

I haven't, but we were discussing this over the dinner table, and the consensus is that he must have given off major creepy vibes.

It raises an interesting question: what if he had simply received training in not sounding creepy? Interesting, because I think something like that really could set someone on the path to becoming successfully socially integrated, but it could also transform someone from a creepy sounding psychopath into a charming psychopath.

Re:What kind of dating approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092955)

I haven't, but we were discussing this over the dinner table, and the consensus is that he must have given off major creepy vibes.

It raises an interesting question: what if he had simply received training in not sounding creepy? Interesting, because I think something like that really could set someone on the path to becoming successfully socially integrated, but it could also transform someone from a creepy sounding psychopath into a charming psychopath.

That's right. Where are our next generation of CEOs going to come from?

Re:What kind of dating approach (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093513)

Where are our next generation of CEOs going to come from?

India. Or maybe China.

Re:What kind of dating approach (1)

dinfinity (2300094) | about 4 months ago | (#47092973)

I guess that really depends on what the root is for his antipathy towards women/people/mankind.

In this case, I believe his social isolation was the root and getting him out of that with proper training and real-world exercise would have turned him into one of the many quite normal socially slightly challenged people in our society. If, however, some traumatic experience were the cause, then one would expect the result to indeed be a charming and doubly dangerous psychopath.

I think this whole episode yet again underlines that loneliness and social isolation can drive people to do terrible things.
From Mark's Daily Apple:
"As I’ve suggested before, there’s something to the ancestral context – the genetically wired, “expected” conditions that characterized our evolutionary history. Extended isolation meant almost sure death in our ancestors’ days." ( http://www.marksdailyapple.com... [marksdailyapple.com] )

Re:What kind of dating approach (2)

Jason Levine (196982) | about 4 months ago | (#47094725)

Not just social isolation, but falling in with the wrong crowd socially. Had he had friends who educated him about his misogyny (and had he listened), he might have turned his dating life around. However, from the reports I've heard, he fell into a crowd who - like him - saw women as objects who should bend to men's sexual demands and who got upset when women insisted on being treated like actual people. This added to his mental instability instead of helping him.

Re:What kind of dating approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093003)

I haven't, but we were discussing this over the dinner table, and the consensus is that he must have given off major creepy vibes.

Read what he wrote (much less the videos) and there's absolutely no doubt he gave off major creepy vibes.

I felt much the same frustration at that age myself. Nobody wanted anything to do with me and no one would tell me why, which meant I had no clue as to how to fix it. Fortunately, a couple of years later a really hot babe came along and appreciated me and made it all better. It was a really miserable life until then though.

On the other hand, I've never been accused of anything more than "minor creepy" myself.

Re:What kind of dating approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093051)

Unfortunately, he did get training or counseling from people. He wasn't left adrift.

He may, however, have been steered very wrongly.

Re:What kind of dating approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092711)

From what I have gathered, he didn't even speak to them. He simply expected them to come up to him and lust after his cock or something. It is really bizarre. He had no social skills *at all*, which seems to have been the result of him being awkward around the time high school started and him retreating into video games, mainly WoW.

Re:What kind of dating approach (3, Insightful)

mpe (36238) | about 4 months ago | (#47093125)

From what I have gathered, he didn't even speak to them. He simply expected them to come up to him and lust after his cock or something. It is really bizarre. He had no social skills *at all*,

Possibly because that's how things looked to him. Any skil set (including "social skills") can look like magic to someone who does not posess it. Quite a bit of social interaction, including sexual, is "non-verbal". (Sexual encounters which involve little even no verbal communication certainly do happen.) People with good non-verbal communication skills are often less conciously aware of non-verbal communication than those who are poor at non-verbal communication. With the former even assuming that all communication is verbal.

which seems to have been the result of him being awkward around the time high school started and him retreating into video games, mainly WoW.

More likely this was a reaction to his lack of social skills. Whilst the lack of a non verbal communication channel, in text based chat, is often considered a handicap this dosn't tend to be the case people who have difficulty with non verbal communication. Especially if their non verbal illiteracy means they are effectivly sending out "noise".
Being verbally literate but non verbally illiterate appears to be especially confusing to the verbally and non verbally literate majority.
In Western cultures, possibly others, whilst verbal communication is typically taught to both children and adults non verbal communication typically isn't.

Re:What kind of dating approach (3, Interesting)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about 4 months ago | (#47093151)

Given that this idiot was still stewing over not getting to go on a carnival ride with his friends 16 years after the fact (apparently, the little shit was too short to meet the minimum height requirement - you remember those "you must be this tall to ride this ride" signs), I can well believe he came across as a whackjob.

Re:What kind of dating approach (0)

Jason Levine (196982) | about 4 months ago | (#47094709)

Probably the kind of dating approach where he viewed women as objects whose sole purpose in this world was to bend to his sexual desires instead of viewing them as actual people. That would more than cancel out any much more superficial things he had going for him (looks, money, etc).

Makes forensic avoidance simple (2)

larwe (858929) | about 4 months ago | (#47092601)

So what I glean from this is "Step 1 in committing any crime: Delete all social media accounts before posting anything about it".

Re:Makes forensic avoidance simple (1)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | about 4 months ago | (#47092963)

So what I glean from this is "Step 1 in committing any crime: Delete all social media accounts before posting anything about it".

Only if you care about what happens afterwards.

That's like saying a better death penalty would have discouraged this guy. He never intended to survive and the only thing that would have held him back would have been the certainty that he couldn't have done anything to begin with. Consequences after the fact were immaterial.

Gov: Stop Spending $ tapping and logging secretly (1)

yayoubetcha (893774) | about 4 months ago | (#47092767)

When somebody posts to social media, and particularly when the police interviewed a subject, perhaps "subscribe" to their "channels"? When another posting is made with explicit threats, prevention should be much easier.

So, stop wasting time attempting to decipher secret messages and codes, and collecting meta data, when terrorism is spelled out so blatantly.

God! Please tell me I'm not living in a computer simulation designed by a "Terry Gilliam" like person!

The gun store should be a crime scene (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47092793)

Can we stop with this insane fetishization of guns and make the gun store where this supposed "law abiding" "supreme gentlemen" bought his instruments of death a crime scene too? America, when will this madness end?

Re:The gun store should be a crime scene (2)

misexistentialist (1537887) | about 4 months ago | (#47093143)

Did he buy the knife at the gun store too?

Re:The gun store should be a crime scene (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094051)

That, and fuck the whackjobs that sold him knives. They are responsible for the death of three people. The BMW dealer is responsible for another. If we started putting car dealers in prison that put profit over safety, we'd have fewer of these whackjobs able to run over people. Their kind is disgusting. They'd rather have the streets flooded with blood than give-up the profit on one of their weapons.

Re:The gun store should be a crime scene (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094673)

I don't like guns, I don't own a gun, I don't want a gun, and won't be buying a gun any time soon. They scare the shit out of me. All the same, I recognize a foaming-at-the-mouth hysteric when I see one. The 'insane fetishization' is coming from the anti-gun crowd.

Not the crime scene, but the crime. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093239)

Mind crime, that is. Come on, people, Queensryche had this shit sussed, what, 25 years ago? I remember the amateur detectives and armchair pop-psychs riffing and goofing on "Operation:Mindcrime" memes on the BBSes back in the "pre-Internet" daze. (Not really, but before the September that never ended.) I used to resort to sarcasm and parody to counter it, but somehow references to trenchcoats and shotguns, or maninblack psyops, seem particularly tasteless today.

I must be getting old or something. Or maybe the tree of common sense has been chopped down, too. Oh, you poor low-information pundits. You really are wet behind the ears; this is all so new to you.

Just to close, I can't help but wonder what the story would have been if some rogue cop Dirty Harry, or some armed citizen, had popped a cap into Mr. Jeremy Has Spoken here the minute he pulled a knife, and who the villain would have been then.

Now get off my lawn...
Mr. 4-Digit AC

Is it just me (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 4 months ago | (#47093293)

Or does the summary read like a trailer for a Humphrey Bogart movie?

Shooter? The first 3 deaths were stabbings (3, Informative)

schwit1 (797399) | about 4 months ago | (#47093343)

He killed 3 with a knife and 3 with a legally purchased firearm. He also tried to kill others with his car.

Re:Shooter? The first 3 deaths were stabbings (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094159)

Exactly. As someone more evolved than one of those car drivers, we should also make sure we call him the pejorative driver. His kind puts his own time and comfort over the environment by having one of those things. As we've seen over and over again, people that drive cars are more aggressive than people that don't. They are nearly forty times more likely to rob or murder. Have you ever heard of a getaway bus? No. It's because people that care about the environment enough to not own one of those damn things isn't the type to harm others.

Legalized Prostitution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47093661)

His parents were affluent so they could have afforded it even if it might have gone against their morals. Maybe a trip to Vegas and a night with a high-price callgirl would have prevented this terrible event? Probably not, though.

Hands in his pockets. (1)

Hategrin (3579025) | about 4 months ago | (#47094187)

I'd bet money (if I had money) that the kid was the type to walk around and chat with his hands in his pockets. That would explain a-lot.

Re:Hands in his pockets. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094315)

Are you accusing him of being in the Air Force or just merely wearing Air Force gloves? That's a crappy thing for you to do on Memorial Day.

Re:Hands in his pockets. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094699)

I don't even know what this discussion is about.

My favorite bit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094659)

My favorite bit was when the people on Bodybuilding.com asked him "Why have you taken down the serial killer videos?"

No Tech For Nuts (1)

Jim Sadler (3430529) | about 4 months ago | (#47094715)

We do have the technology to spot mental illness in school kids and even in employment situations. There are two facts involved. First, real testing is expensive and requires specialists including things like PET scans, MRI scans and a full medical workup in addition to psychological testing. Then the next problem is even worse. You have little Johnny in the seventh grade and his behavior seems a slight bit off. You test him which might cost 20K and determine that he in fact has a mental illness. And here comes the fun part. You have to treat him and there is no way in this world that most states or nations will fund half way good care for mental illness. So everybody looks the other way and pretends that Johnny is just a bit different or going through a stage. The catch is that in the tenth grade little Johnny's mental health is now totally wrecked and he thinks his high school should be just like Columbine. How many of us know people right now who have somewhat obvious mental health issues? And often these folks will not talk about it and may become quite hostile if you ask them to seek help. I have worked with people that I was not at all sure would not shoot up the business as their mood swings were more than a little sick.

Half Jew, half Chinese... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47094877)

No mention of this fact in the JEW owned media... I can't imagine why...

Oh, and he shot BLONDE WOMEN. Nothing 'racist' about that, of course...

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