Amazon Dispute Now Making Movies Harder To Order 210
trazom28 writes: Hachette books aren't the only products that are now harder to order on Amazon — the online retailer is going after movies, too. Amazon has turned off the preorder function for DVDs of prominent Warner Bros. films as it seeks to raise pressure on the company during negotiations. The Lego Movie, for example, is listed as "currently unavailable" on Amazon. Set for release in the home video marketplace on June 17, there is no option to place a preorder."
Now wait (Score:5, Interesting)
To be fair, WB is the one who put amazon in a crap situation in this one. They had a pre-order for a blue ray, for like $25....The move did exceptionally better than they anticipated, so WB decided NOT to produce the cheaper blu ray, and then put out a new $40 one. Amazon then had to cancel all the other cheaper pre orders, and deal with the legitimately pissed off customers. Amazon is doing some shady things, but they certainly aren't alone in it.
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To be fair, WB is the one who put amazon in a crap situation in this one. They had a pre-order for a blue ray, for like $25....The move did exceptionally better than they anticipated, so WB decided NOT to produce the cheaper blu ray, and then put out a new $40 one. Amazon then had to cancel all the other cheaper pre orders, and deal with the legitimately pissed off customers. Amazon is doing some shady things, but they certainly aren't alone in it.
Is there a link to that story. Not finding anything in Google.
WB just lost $25 (Score:3)
To be fair, WB is the one who put amazon in a crap situation in this one. They had a pre-order for a blue ray, for like $25....The move did exceptionally better than they anticipated, so WB decided NOT to produce the cheaper blu ray, and then put out a new $40 one. Amazon then had to cancel all the other cheaper pre orders, and deal with the legitimately pissed off customers. Amazon is doing some shady things, but they certainly aren't alone in it.
Re:Now wait (Score:5, Interesting)
There is nothing shady about managing your suppliers. Every well run business does it. The only thing different is Amazon's suppliers are used to having monopoly power and getting any terms they want. Amazon is pushing back! Its a good for the consumer and I think ultimately will be good for the talent.
On the book side the job publishers actually do is shrinking (doubly so if we are talking e-books). Everyone I know that has ever had anything published or tried recently, tells me they are expected to provide manuscript in very very specific formats, already largely edited. At that point the only value adds pretty much come down to bundling it into the e-book container (they could do that themselves but for DRM signing etc) and access to the distribution channel (which Amazon could pretty easily provide them with directly), and some fancy name with authority behind it to slap on the work.
Amazon thinks they don't deserve such a big cut for all that lack of actual work; and I agree. The publishing industry does not have to be the gatekeepers anymore unless you want a large run of dead tree, where someone needs to put up real capital. A quick look at interest rates these days ought to give you an idea of what the real value of that is too.
The movie world is still a little different, the talent isn't in a position to produce a feature film, although that isn't necessarily the case with an animated work like "Lego Movie"; and if you look the gulf between what really talented folks can do in their basement vs. what Hollywood cranks out is for the most part narrowing too. So value the 'Studios' are providing is declining not matter what fantastic sums of money they manage to blow on the production. I am all for Amazon putting the squeeze on these guys too.
Amazon *IS* the market, the market should set prices. If Amazons history is any guide at all they will use any cost to compete, so as consumers we cant expect to see some of it passed on to use in the form of lower prices. I also can't think of well anything other than Amazon's own products Kindle etc, that are exclusive to them, so I am not worried about Amazon being a monopoly yet; someday it might be a concern but not now.
Re:Now wait (Score:5, Interesting)
Largely I think publishers just don't give a fuck about quality anymore. If I judged publishers solely by the piss-poor print-to-e-book conversion jobs they've been doing I have to say they're fucking worthless. I'm reading one book right now on my kindle that makes it painfully clear no one at Bantam bothered to even edit the e-book format. There are so many word fuckups from the OCR process it's not even funny.
I've actually had similar experiences with Dune. It's just sad that they don't even bother checking the content after running it through OCR software and then they have the gaul to charge nearly $10 for what amounts to a fucking PDF.
Pisses me off to no end.
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Largely I think publishers just don't give a fuck about quality anymore. If I judged publishers solely by the piss-poor print-to-e-book conversion jobs they've been doing I have to say they're fucking worthless. I'm reading one book right now on my kindle that makes it painfully clear no one at Bantam bothered to even edit the e-book format. There are so many word fuckups from the OCR process it's not even funny.
Is it the case that the original publisher is also doing the e-book? I know sometimes authors retain rights to the e-book that the publisher doesn't get, and they may have chosen a bad e-book publishing model.
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Is it the case that the original publisher is also doing the e-book? I know sometimes authors retain rights to the e-book that the publisher doesn't get, and they may have chosen a bad e-book publishing model.
Most of the really badly fomatted ebooks I've seen come from trade publishers just OCR-ing the paper book and uploading it without further editing. I've seen a few badly formatted backlist ebooks from authors, but most take a lot more pride in their books than their publisher would.
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They can't afford it any more.
Quality staff and full time editors cost money.
Be nice if we could crowd-source corrections tho.
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When you have a Gauls working for you... you charge whatever you want.
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When you have a Gauls working for you... you charge whatever you want.
Relax - he OCRd his answer. Nothing wrong with that!
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Intentional misprints? (Score:2)
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Have you examined the pattern of misprints? Maybe they're there to uniquely identify your copy of the e-book.
I think mostly people are talking about obvious OCR errors. Like a lower case L (l) turning into a numeral one (1) or an exclaimation point (!)
More interesting to me are the questions "If you purchase an eBook and what you receive is not a faithful representaion of the printed copy, what exactly have you purchased?" "Was that money well spent?"
I believe I would ask for my money back if my KIng James Bible eBook quoted God as saying "Let there be light: and there was blight."
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So you aren't a 7th day advent hopist then?
"Faith, Hop and Charity, and the greatest of these is Hop."
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Largely I think publishers just don't give a fuck about quality anymore.
It's not just the ebook conversion. Book publishers and packagers have been cutting down on editors and the whole revision for the last couple of decades. "Fuck it," they say, "nobody will notice. And even if they do, they already bought the book. What are they gonna do, buy the next 'Shades of Gray' from another publisher next time?"
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No, he's talking about a sequel to "The Picture of Dorian Gray", which is based around his ghost. The pluralization becomes apparent during the storyline.
Why OCR? (Score:2)
I'm just curious, why have such publishers chosen to OCR the already printed book rather convert the electronic document used in the editing/layout of the book (I'm assuming the publisher is using equipment more sophisticated than a typewriter and letter press). Any modern book should have gone through some electronic process even those whose original manuscripts are written in longhand. Conversion from those electronic formats should be a bit more flawless than brute-force OCR.
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Ye Gods and little boarlets...
Re:Now wait (Score:5, Insightful)
While I agree in principle that publisher's are a bit superfluous to the publishing equation, acting solely as a middle man, you did leave out one major point regarding their value add. They provide substantial marketing muscle that it's not clear Amazon would provide to an individual author alone. They arrange book and media tours as well, especially for up and coming authors. Established authors obviously have their own agents or PR people who could help with this, but new authors have neither the resources nor the experience to participate in this critical marketing tool.
As a corollary - look at the Apple or Android app stores. Obviously the larger apps have marketing muscle behind them (in the form of publishers, of course), but the day that the individual could make a lot of money is few and far between. I would argue that the window for indie developer success lasted about 6 months after the app store launched. After that, you were just one person shouting in a crowd and had no chance to break even without marketing saavy or dumb luck.
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While I agree in principle that publisher's are a bit superfluous to the publishing equation, acting solely as a middle man, you did leave out one major point regarding their value add. They provide substantial marketing muscle that it's not clear Amazon would provide to an individual author alone.
Sure, if you're Stephen King. Not if you're Joe Newbie who just sold them his new book for a $5,000 advance.
How much marketing do you think they're going to throw at a book if they're only willing to pay the author $5,000?
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"How much marketing do you think they're going to throw at a book if they're only willing to pay the author $5,000?"
More than the author is capable of on his own if he was willing to accept a $5,000 advance..
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More than the author is capable of on his own if he was willing to accept a $5,000 advance..
So, where are the TV ads for Joe Newbie's book? Where are the newspaper ads? Where are the billboards?
They're not there, because the publisher won't spend a cent advertising his book to readers, if they think it's only going to make $5,000.
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The same place as the TV ad, newspaper ads, and billboards are for Joe Self-published's book: in your fevered imagination.
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I think Amazon is getting arrogant and stupid, and think they own the market and have no competition. My books aren't affected, they're available at Amazon. But they're cheaper from Barnes & Noble, and B&N listed them in their catalog two days before Amazon did (I'm my own publisher, no hatchets are war nerd brothers).
I think it's dumb, B&N will eat their lunch. Want a WB movie or Hatchette book? B&N. And probably a hundred other places.
Re:Now wait (Score:5, Insightful)
Amazon DOES own the market. The first place most people go to for a book or movie or any other thing online? Amazon. I know people who rarely spend a dollar outside of Amazon as Amazon has practically everything in one place. (Or if it's not available from Amazon, they send a nasty letter to the manufacturer asking them why it's not on Amazon).
B&N is a poor comparison - they are circling the drain. So they have to lower prices to compete. But few people shop at B&N, and even fewer have ebooks there (I've run across many that are Amazon only, annoyingly).
And with the DoJ putting the smackdown on the Apple Agency model of selling e-books, coupled with Amazon's practical monopoly over ebooks, well, Amazon will soon be the only place. Nook's in trouble, too. When the DoJ as part of the Apple thing hacked up all the contracts, well, Amazon picked up the pieces and benefitted, while everyone else started dying. Other than Nook, there's no real other source of ebooks, and Nook's in trouble.
Basically, Amazon's become the Wal-Mart of the online world.
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The only reservaton I have is the idea that one gigantic business is somehow going to treat me better than another gigantic business. Giant Douche versus Shit Sandwich comes to mind...
Re:Now wait (Score:4, Insightful)
The only reservaton I have is the idea that one gigantic business is somehow going to treat me better than another gigantic business. Giant Douche versus Shit Sandwich comes to mind...
Except Amazon has great customer service, while Big Movie regards customers as an annoyance.
That might change, but, right now, I'll take Amazon over any big movie company any day.
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"Amazon *IS* the market, the market should set prices."
That is a great idea, until Amazon really is the only supplier.
Then they will really set their prices (read: high)
Re:Now wait (Score:4, Informative)
To be fair, WB is the one who put amazon in a crap situation in this one. They had a pre-order for a blue ray, for like $25....The move did exceptionally better than they anticipated, so WB decided NOT to produce the cheaper blu ray, and then put out a new $40 one. Amazon then had to cancel all the other cheaper pre orders, and deal with the legitimately pissed off customers. Amazon is doing some shady things, but they certainly aren't alone in it.
They aren't to blame for the Hatchet fiasco either. Hatchet was found guity of price fixing against Amazon.There is nothing wrong with Amazon putting the screws to them.
Now Wait - Indeed (Score:2)
Talk about first world problems, people can buy it on release day if they're so impatient
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At least it's not prefaced with Anderson Cooper feigning faux-outrage as he tells us that he's not going to show some video that his network has been showing all day.
Available in Amazon UK (Score:3)
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It is listed at 10 pounds. The listing is here [amazon.co.uk].
Re:Available in Amazon UK (Score:5, Funny)
Wow. Shipping for that DVD must be VERY expensive. They are only an ounce or two here in the USA.
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Your currency is very heavy.
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Thank you Captain Obvious.
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whoosh!!
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Ten pounds. Let's see... how much is that in nummus aureus?
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Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder (Score:3)
Just saying....
;-)
Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder (Score:4, Informative)
This Amazon circus just shows us the dangers with a monopoly where one player dictates what can be purchased and sold.
Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder (Score:5, Funny)
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No, those are Crannys.
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Walmart used to do (and probably still does) this to their suppliers. The only difference is the consumer never knew their was a coercive price negotiation going on because the product simply never appeared on store shelves, and usually there was a substitute from another vendor.
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This Amazon circus just shows us the dangers with a monopoly where one player dictates what can be purchased and sold.
I would question the characterization of one company deciding not to allow pre-orders being equivalent to "one player dictates what can be purchased and sold."
You can still buy the movie.
Sellers can still sell the movie.
Just not on Amazon until it is available in retail channels.
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Which monopoly does Amazon have again?
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Pretty much all of them. Star Wars Monopoly, Battlestar Galactica Monopoly, My First Monopoly....
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Except in this case, they're terms are being dictated to WB; and the customer will win.
And there can't be a monopoly on digital goods.
WB could sell it from their own site, as an example.
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This Amazon circus just shows us the dangers with a monopoly where one player dictates what can be purchased and sold.
This statement works equally well with either side of the circus being the "one player".
Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder (Score:4, Informative)
"This Amazon circus just shows us the dangers with a monopoly where one player dictates what can be purchased and sold" ... ... You said, in response to someone pointing out that a COMPETITOR of Amazon will still gladly take your money in exchange for goods and services.
/ I do not think it means what you think it means
I think he phrased it badly. I took this to mean, we have to be very careful about monopolies developing for exactly this reason. In other words, not saying that Amazon is a monopoly, but that their behavior is the reason a monopoly would be bad.
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A company does not have to stand completely alone in the marketplace in order to have a dire impact on things. The usual villain here is Walmart. They have been abusing suppliers long before Amazon got in the act.
The fact that I can choose one titan over another doesn't alter the fact that either can distort the market to a degree that's dangerous for the free market in general.
Re:Barnes and Nobles still lets you preorder (Score:5, Interesting)
The usual villain here is Walmart. They have been abusing suppliers long before Amazon got in the act.
Point of consideration that Walmart bullies around smaller suppliers while Amazon is taking a stand against one of the major publishers with Hachette and Warner Bros which is operated by Time Warner who is currently seeking Anti-Trust approval to merge with Comcast.
If anything, Amazon's ability to stand up to Big Media seems to be in the best interest of consumers. Big Media is where the evil monopolies seem to be. Amazon's power over online sales relies on convenience, their customer supplied rating/feedback system, and their pricing policies. Amazon wants to charge small for high quality because cheap crap will be rated as such on Amazon and nobody will buy it. Meanwhile Walmart wants to charge small for low quality because who cares about customers and suppliers if they can earn 20% of half a Trillion bucks each year (http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/wmt/financials).
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> Point of consideration that Walmart bullies around smaller suppliers while Amazon is taking a stand against one of the major publishers with Hachette and Warner Bros which is operated by Time Warner who is currently seeking Anti-Trust approval to merge with Comcast.
Indeed. This is where I get conflicted. Amazon using their clout to push Time Warner around is like seeing a bully getting a beat-down by another bully. The winner might push you around next, but while the fight is occurring, it's fun to
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Very good point. This is why it's important to have competition.
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Does Barnes and Noble give me free 2-day shipping and a huge library of free streaming movies and TV shows for $40 a year?
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Does Barnes and Noble give me free 2-day shipping and a huge library of free streaming movies and TV shows for $40 a year?
Since TFS is about Amazon, one would expect that the unnamed company you are referring to there would be Amazon. But since Amazon Prime is $99, I have to ask, what other company are you talking about?
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But perhaps NotDrWho simply mistyped the price. I hope not though. I was hoping to learn about other alternatives to Amazon Prime.
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You don't get free 2 day shipping from Amazon.
You pay 40 dollars a year.
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Meanwhile, if I forget something past the preorder date, I never really wanted it.
I have preordered the torrent (Score:5, Informative)
Fortunately, torrents are not subject to contract disputes.
Amazon, Warner, Hachette and others seem determined to drive everyone to torrents.
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Amazon, Warner, Hachette and others seem determined to drive everyone to torrents.
What is your complaint about Warner and Hachette in this case?
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They're simply guilty by association.
Amazon is causing a ruckus with Warner/Hatchette. That ruckus is driving people to alternative (and less legal means)
Perhaps Warner should be looking into alternative distribution methods. They're a big enough company that if Amazon wants to play hardball, Warner should be able to play right back. Threaten to pull all movies from Amazon, create and promote a new partnership with (for example) Overstock.com or create their own direct distribution branch. Fire off a fe
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Threaten to pull all movies from Amazon, create and promote a new partnership with (for example) Overstock.com or create their own direct distribution branch.
Ha-ha. You're funny.
If WB pull their movies off Amazon, I just stop buying WB movies. Few people are going to set up a separate account for every movie company, they just want to buy all their crap from one site with one account.
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The point is that all of this squabbling is making the torrent the easiest, quickest, most convenient, and most reliable way to obtain the product. (Not to mention the torrent file will not be crippled with DRM.)
If the legitimate vendors hope to compete with torrents, they have to beat torrents at everything. On top of that, the price has to be something that seems "reasonable" to the purchaser. Failure to achieve this makes torrents more attractive to more people.
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I loaded up the game and... Began playing. No account sign in; no unskippable advertising at every boot for the a graphics card manufacturer, the publisher, and everyone else; no DLC to download. It just worked.
I'm not saying that I'm going to stop buying games, but I mig
$17.99 from best buy (Score:2)
for the 2 disc blu ray with the Ultraviolet digital copy
you can even pre-order it but the shipping is a little slower. or just stop by store during lunch or after work
One thing Best Buy is still good for.. (Score:2)
..is for picking up freshly-released movies. Don't have to wait for the postman. Just drive up, park in the mostly empty parking lot, go into the mostly-empty store, pay your monies, go home, stick in player, relax.
With all that empty, though, I can't think BB will be around much longer..
Stallman on boycotting Amazon.com (Score:2)
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That doesn't really make me want to boycott Amazon as a whole. His arguments against avoiding Kindle and other digital "purchases" through Amazon are sound, but otherwise his criticisms are mostly just politically motivated disagreements. Although, some of the criticisms relating to anti-competitive practices may gain more weight if Amazon does eventually become an effective monopoly in book sales.
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My life is ruined (Score:4, Insightful)
Dear God! I can't get in my preorder for the Lego movie? Oh, the humanities!
The fact that this is a problem says a lot more about our society than it does about either Amazon or Warner Brothers.
Since I wait 6-12 months... not feeling the impact (Score:2)
Movies, books, boardgames, etc. are usually 50%-75% off by then. Sometimes more.
I might pop forward to present time for a very few select items.
But I stopped buying DVD's every week when they came out back around 2002.
Emperor Walmartine and Amazon Skywalker (Score:2)
.
post-Wild West internet (Score:2)
That is good news! (Score:2)
I welcome this change by Amazon. I was getting sick of the sheer amount of titles I "could" buy in the future instead of offering me recommendations of stuff I can have right now.
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I use Google Product Search now and then, but I find it's a lot higher-effort. They don't really do any vetting on whether the stores they include are legit, so you have to look up reviews and try to figure out whether the company is the kind that's going to ship you defective merchandise and then claim they didn't. Particularly around electronics and cameras, the search results are full of fly-by-night online stores.
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Google Shopping Express (Score:2)
Actually, there is a good online one-stop-shop available: Google (other search engines are available). If I want a book, DVD or pretty much anything else I Google to see who has it available and at what price. If Amazon don't, hey, I probably won't even notice; I'll be busy comparing price and delivery options for the companies that do.
Even better - get same-day delivery if you happen to be in a GSX market. Even more limited supply than Amazon, but same-day has resulted in some pretty awesome results when it comes to almost-forgotten last-minute birthday/anniversary gifts :)
Re:Fuck Amazon (Score:5, Interesting)
As oppose to book publishers that want you to pay the same for an ebook as a hard copy?
It's easier to just go through life when you realize that ALL companies are evil, vile companies and they are all out to maximize THEIR profits at the expense of others.
If publishers and distributors don't want to deal with Amazon, don't do business with them. Amazon's not the only ecommerce site on the internet. Yes you may lose sales from people who want to buy it on Amazon but can't. But Amazon also loses the sale. And if people want your product, if you make it easy for them to get it elsewhere they'll still get it. If I REALLY wanted to go buy The Lego Movie and Wal-Mart didn't have it, I'd go to Best Buy. Or Target. Or some other store. This is no different.
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The more evil they are, the more I punish them by lack of patronage. If everyone did this, all corporations would be good.
s/all corporations would be good/nobody would ever be able to buy anything/
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It's even easier when you realize no company is evil. or good.
They are companies.
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Then why are paperbacks usually cheaper than hardbacks? Of the same story, I mean.
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I'm fairly sure the customer is.
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Not everybody has a 25-40 mbit connection for good quality video streaming.
Re:Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
what happens if your internet goes out?
what if i don't want to turn on my macbook or PC to stream movies to my apple TV all the time
what if i don't want to buy a SAN and spend time ripping movies and paying the electric bill for it being on all the time
what if i want to see the best quality on my HD TV
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what happens if your internet goes out? - Except for occasional phone home, you can play content offline that is stored on your Mac or PC from iTunes.
what if i don't want to turn on my macbook or PC to stream movies to my apple TV all the time -- You don't have to. The Apple TV can stream TV and Movies from your device directly. If you have iTunes match, the same is true for music.
For me it's about avoiding the storage space of physical media. I have a lot of DVDs and some blu-ray (mostly for 3d content)
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Love the childish condescending tone. Some of us actually like to OWN what we buy. If I like a movie I will get in DVD/blu-ray because I don't have to worry about the cloud, licensing, proprietary this or that, some clause on the 37th page on the EULA etc. Shockers... I even still buy CDs for music for the same reason.
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I try to do the same thing, as I'm getting very tired of everything closing down. Who wants to live in a town with no stores ( other than a few restaurants and liquor stores)?