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US Arrests Son of Russian MP In Maldives For Hacking

timothy posted about 4 months ago | from the by-coincidence dept.

Crime 176

First time accepted submitter ugen (93902) writes "The son of a Russian lawmaker has been arrested by the U.S. on charges of selling credit card information he stole by hacking into the computers of American retailers. Roman Seleznev, 30, was arrested overseas by the U.S. Secret Service on July 5 and was ordered detained today during a hearing in federal court in Guam, the Justice Department said in a statement."

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Guam is in the Maldives now? (2)

Wulfstan (180404) | about 4 months ago | (#47406637)

There's about a third of the globe between the two...

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (5, Informative)

Wulfstan (180404) | about 4 months ago | (#47406655)

Replying to myself - as it turns out, the plot thickens:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... [huffingtonpost.com]

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (3, Interesting)

jythie (914043) | about 4 months ago | (#47406793)

I think if nothing else this raises questions about where the arrest actually happened. Russian media, esp when high ranking party members are involved, is not exactly known for being accurate in its reporting.

Setting that aside, this does cut into the larger modern question of how to deal with cyber criminals who are based out of countries hostile to the US. There has always been the question about what to do with people who commit crimes in a country then flee to one without an extradition treaty, but increasingly we are having to deal with cases where the individual is actively committing crimes against the citizens of one country while being physically located in another.

Though that gets into some interesting and sticky territory when it comes to transnational companies and the horrors they have committed around the world... or at least it SHOULD be sticky.

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (1)

Scutter (18425) | about 4 months ago | (#47406945)

I've seen two different stories. 1) He was arrested in Maldives and taken to Guam, and 2) He was arrested in Guam. In any case, there's obviously enough confusion about the story that we're not getting accurate information. Given that, if he were arrested in Maldives, it's certainly possible that it was with the help of the local police and just not being reported.

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407175)

I just read this:

  A Russian man, indicted in the Western District of Washington for hacking into point of sale systems at retailers throughout the United States was arrested this weekend and transported to Guam for an initial appearance, announced U.S. Attorney Jenny A. Durkan. ROMAN VALEREVICH SELEZNEV, 30, of Moscow, also known as “Track2” in the criminal carding underground, was indicted in March 2011, for operating several carding forums that engaged in the distribution of stolen credit card information. At his first appearance in Guam today, SELEZNEV was ordered detained pending a further hearing scheduled for July 22, 2014.

here: http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2014/07/russian-hacker-arrested-in-2010-broadway-grill-data-breach/

as part of the announcement of the arrest.

The "was arrested and transported to Guam" does not sound like he was "arrested" in Guam, and not mentioning where he was "arrested" sound a lot like this was actually a kidnapping.

Just reading the headline of this story (the "arrested in Maledives") makes me sad:
Some (many?) americans do not seem to notice (or accept?) that there are other countries outside of the US, with their own laws, their own way of life.

Smells like war, somehow...

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (1)

jythie (914043) | about 4 months ago | (#47407397)

Another piece said he was arrested at the airport, and laws regarding jurisdiction get even stranger there.

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (1)

Scutter (18425) | about 4 months ago | (#47407501)

Yes, "arrested in Maldives" is one of the two conflicting stories I mentioned. I have also seen stories that said that he was arrested in Guam. The Maldives story seems to be coming from the Russians.

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407527)

Banks ate the Target hacking costs. So banks pressured the government into getting this guy.

Just make money free and avoid all these greed-motivated maneuvers.

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (2)

Rei (128717) | about 4 months ago | (#47407819)

Interesting article on the details of what he's charged with [krebsonsecurity.com] here, with screenshots of the operation he stands accused of running.

While the details of the arrest are still hazy, one thing is clear - they've had this guy in their sights since 2011. It's not surprising that they issued a sealed indictment for him, mind you, that's not particularly unusual for a case like this where the subject is unlikely to be extradited and would avoid your jurisdiction if the indictment was public (nor is the US in any way unique in this regard). And since I've seen others commenting about this: yes, the Secret Service is the correct body to have jurisdiction over this, as they (strangely) are in charge of enforcement against financial crimes. Back in the early days of commercially available inkjet printers, the nerdy high school/college program I went to (TAMS) once got a visit from the secret service when one of the students figured out that he could print good enough replica dollar bills on one to fool the scanner on the drink machine in the lounge. The total volume of the forgery had to be tiny, I'd be surprised if it was more than $100, but still, if you feel like getting involved in financial crime, expect the Secret Service to be looking out for you. ;)

The scandal here would be if this was an extrajudicial "kidnapping" in the Maldives, with the US swooping up in a van, grabbing the guy, and jetting him off to Guam to use as a bargaining chip, as has been alleged by the guy's MP father. I seriously doubt all that, but we'll see where the truth lies.

Re: Guam is in the Maldives now? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47408117)

Investigating financial crimes was the original purpose of the secret service, protecting the president was added later.

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (1)

Tuidjy (321055) | about 4 months ago | (#47408375)

This is not the first time the United States does something similar, i.e. has the authorities in country A apprehend someone who is not accused of anything there, expel him from A without notifying the country of origin, and 'somehow' have US officials waiting to arrest the 'expelled' individual on 'international' ground.

US lawyers have consistently explained that this is somehow very different from illegal extradition/kidnapping which is explicitly condemned by the UN. It only looks the same. And I very much doubt the States are the only ones doing it. The Brits and Russians have done the same.

Is it a travesty of justice? Meh, I'm not a lawyer. Is it an example of the strong getting what they want? Hell, yeah!

The only thing that makes this interesting is that the Russians will raise a more stench than usual, because the arrested individual is more than just a 'paysan'.

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (3, Insightful)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 4 months ago | (#47407277)

Replying to myself - as it turns out, the plot thickens:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... [huffingtonpost.com]

Right, the US has gone completely off the rails in recent years. "oh, this guy stole some credit card numbers... Let's kidnap him, fly him out of the country and try him in some random court outside the country! Yea! Go USA!"

Seriously? It'd be one thing if he blew something up... but credit card fraud?

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407699)

The US have become fascists, and do not believe there is actually a limit to their jurisdiction.

They can (and will) arrest you anywhere on the planet.

They can (and will) seize your assets for copyright infringement (because, the US government is now beholden to the copyright lobby).

They can (and will) kill you if they have to.

They can (and will) hack into any phone system they like.

They can (and will) prevent you from flying with no evidence, trial, or acknowledgement.

They can (and will) demand that your private data be handed over by private corporations.

Fuck you America. You have become hostile to the freedom and liberty of the rest of the world.

Which means the rest of the world has ever fewer options than to become hostile to you, your liberties and freedoms.

And yet you all sit around acting like you're the champions of truth and justice. When in fact, you're rapidly becoming a failed state that the rest of the world can't deal with any more.

Fuck America, you suck, you are allowing your politicians to do this, and you seem to think that if it's for your illusion of security the rest of us can go piss off.

You deserve no consideration from the rest of the world, and you deserve whatever backlash against you occurs.

I sincerely hope the rest of the world stops buying your products, stops accepting your stupid IP laws, and in general stops giving a damn what happens within your own borders.

Fuck America.

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (1)

rossdee (243626) | about 4 months ago | (#47406845)

I RTFA'd and Maldives weren't mentioned

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (1)

rockout (1039072) | about 4 months ago | (#47407185)

Yeah, that particular article doesn't mention the Maldives. Dozens of others do identify the Maldives as the site of the arrest, most of them quoting the Russian government calling his arrest in the Maldives a kidnapping.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/us-ac... [ibtimes.co.uk]

Re:Guam is in the Maldives now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407193)

There's about a third of the globe between the two...

It could be a mistake by a geographically challenged reporter. Or it may have been intentional, to make the preposterous implication that the US of A has started using so-called "extraordinary renditions" against foreign citizens on third countries' soil.

Where was Maldives law enforcement? (2)

Presto Vivace (882157) | about 4 months ago | (#47406639)

Surely it would have their place to make the arrest.

Re:Where was Maldives law enforcement? (2)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 4 months ago | (#47406953)

Snorkeling.

Hm... (5, Insightful)

thieh (3654731) | about 4 months ago | (#47406659)

Since when did the US got power to arrest people in Maldives? Does that mean they can just go into arbitrary countries and arrest people arbitrarily?

Re:Hm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406675)

No.

Re:Hm... (2)

khr (708262) | about 4 months ago | (#47406689)

Since when did the US got power to arrest people in Maldives?

It looks like they took that power on July 5th.

Re:Hm... (1)

mbone (558574) | about 4 months ago | (#47406737)

In geopolitics, taking powers you do not actually have always leads to a reaction. Wait for it.

Hm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406701)

US probably has an agreement with Maldives.

Re:Hm... (2)

jrumney (197329) | about 4 months ago | (#47407229)

US probably has an agreement with Maldives.

It's called the Kyoto protocol. US keeps promising to sign (leaving government-less Somalia as the final non-signatory) if Maldives grants them one last favor.

Re:Hm... (1)

fnj (64210) | about 4 months ago | (#47406719)

I believe that is what they do. I don't say "we" any more. It ain't no part of me.

They don't even feel they have to use the magic T(errorist) or C(hild porn) words any more.

Hm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406795)

Since when did the US got power to arrest people in Maldives? Does that mean they can just go into arbitrary countries and arrest people arbitrarily?

You must be new to international law. The U.S. has had an extradition treaty with Maldives.

Re:Hm... (1)

Megol (3135005) | about 4 months ago | (#47407149)

Yes they can according to US law.

Re:Hm... (-1, Offtopic)

ruir (2709173) | about 4 months ago | (#47407221)

We fucking dont care about US law. I am European. But then Maldives is also known as Falklands, from one country that bends over to the US.

Re:Hm... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407309)

You are thinking of the Malvinas.

Re:Hm... (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407317)

You are getting the Maldives and the Argentinean name for the Fakland isles, The Malvinas Mixed up.

Re:Hm... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407337)

No it isn't. You're thinking of Islas Malvinas (the Argentine name for The Falkland Islands). The islands just off Argentina.

As opposed to the Maldives, which are in the Indian Ocean - Arabian Sea.

Miles apart - which also appears to be a description of geographically where your geography lessons were held and where you were when at school...

Re:Hm... (0)

r1348 (2567295) | about 4 months ago | (#47407377)

Malvinas and Maldives are different islands, and very, very far apart. Where did you study?

Re:Hm... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47408055)

He studied at a terrific British school, but he missed that day in geography class because he was out the night before watching the fireworks and celebrating Guy Fieri Day.

Re:Hm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47408255)

Or he listened to the idiot currently residing in the White House: Obama then said: "And in terms of the Maldives or the Falklands, whatever your preferred term, our position on this is that we are going to remain neutral.

Re:Hm... (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about 4 months ago | (#47407781)

Since when did the US got power to arrest people in Maldives?

Since they decided to give it to themselves.

Does that mean they can just go into arbitrary countries and arrest people arbitrarily?

They've been sending in people to do snatch and grabs for years now. Then they send them to a 3rd country which can use 'enhanced' interrogation which would be illegal in the US.

And then they say that anything is legal because these people are enemy combatants who don't wear uniforms, and therefore not covered under any treaties.

Oh, and if they have to, they'll send in a drone strike in a country which hasn't authorized it, and if they happen to kill some civilians who were in the vicinity -- well, too bad that you were near someone we wanted to kill.

Seriously, have you not been paying attention? "Team America, World Police" has been a real thing now for quite some time. This is hardly the first time they've done this.

They simply don't care about things like sovereignty, and their own security needs trump everything.

Re:Hm... (1)

Stan92057 (737634) | about 4 months ago | (#47408051)

"Since they decided to give it to themselves."

Citation's please. You point to no evidence they didn't have permissions or treaties with country's you seem to be an expert on snatch and grabs so please were the evidence. I know for a fact Russia government officals were blaming the USA for a missile attack when in fact it was a meteorite and you want us to believe what you say>> im not the smartest guy in the world but I know a troll when I see one.

Re:Hm... (3, Informative)

jratcliffe (208809) | about 4 months ago | (#47408563)

Since when did the US got power to arrest people in Maldives? Does that mean they can just go into arbitrary countries and arrest people arbitrarily?

Not unless the country in question authorizes it. If the Maldives didn't, then it's kidnapping. If they did, then it's deportation, and entirely kosher.

Kidnapping. (4, Interesting)

Talonius (97106) | about 4 months ago | (#47406667)

When I had heard that the Russians were calling this kidnapping, I was doubtful -- but now, not so sure. We really do exact our justice anywhere we want to, don't we?

What happened to extradition treaties and such? When did it become "stuff them in a van and drive!"?

Re:Kidnapping. (4, Interesting)

benjfowler (239527) | about 4 months ago | (#47406751)

The Russians are masters of passive aggression when it comes to law enforcement when it suits them: the place is corrupt from top to bottom, and it manifests itself in a complete lack of desire to cooperate in international law enforcement. They have a convenient clause in their constitution which lets them refuse to extradite anybody, no matter what -- but is only exercised when it suits them.

Not arresting Russia's own cybercriminals is just another way for the notoriously erratic and thin-skinned Putin to poke the West in the eye and annoy us.

Re:Kidnapping. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406797)

Sounds just like the United States.

Re:Kidnapping. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406849)

Sounds just like the United States.

Gimme a break. The Russians are no where near as bad as the US.

Re:Kidnapping. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407771)

The Russians are more dangerous but less hypocritical.

If the Russians really didn't like you at least they'd just murder you wherever you are, rather than kidnap you and then pretend to be upholding justice by charging you in some kangaroo court. Or worse dumping you in Guantanamo.

Re:Kidnapping. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47408407)

Yes, somewhat true. But given the fact that Russia is so open about its lawlessness, and refuses to prosecute these crimes at home, I hope the US locks this SOB criminal up for a LONG time. I so want Russian and Chinese and ANY OTHER damaging hacker in JAIL where they belong. Along with that, get to work prosecuting senior American bankers.

Hate to break it to you ... (4, Insightful)

Ihlosi (895663) | about 4 months ago | (#47406833)

The Russians are masters of passive aggression when it comes to law enforcement when it suits them: the place is corrupt from top to bottom, and it manifests itself in a complete lack of desire to cooperate in international law enforcement. They have a convenient clause in their constitution which lets them refuse to extradite anybody, no matter what -- but is only exercised when it suits them.

I hate to break it to you, but the phrase above remains true if you replace "Russians" with any country powerful enough to get away with this kind of behavior.

Re:Hate to break it to you ... (1)

kamapuaa (555446) | about 4 months ago | (#47407475)

But there isn't a clause in most country's constitutions about this, and of course nations with little power are also often corrupt and unwilling to cooperate in international law enforcement, generally more so than powerful nations.

Re:Hate to break it to you ... (1)

jbmartin6 (1232050) | about 4 months ago | (#47407715)

Article 61. The citizen of the Russian Federation may not be deported out of Russia or extradited to another state. The Russian Federation shall guarantee its citizens defense and patronage beyond its boundaries.

Re:Hate to break it to you ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407949)

Reading comprehension problems?

Re:Hate to break it to you ... (1)

parkinglot777 (2563877) | about 4 months ago | (#47408103)

Reading comprehension problems?

I think the guy just replied to GGP on the part saying " They have a convenient clause in their constitution which lets them refuse to extradite anybody, no matter what" which is exactly what Article 61 is.

Re:Hate to break it to you ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407577)

I hate to break it to you, but the phrase above remains true if you replace "Russians" with any country powerful enough to get away with this kind of behavior.

Like the great nation of Texas. They just call it "Affluenza" there.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... [huffingtonpost.com]

Re:Kidnapping. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406939)

Russians might be masters of anything, here we are talking about clear cut case of illegal international hostile abduction or a son of a foreign country government official done by US quite blatantly and Russia should retaliate with at least an airstrike or a similar abduction

Re:Kidnapping. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407735)

Russia started it by ignoring treaties they'd signed to annex Crimea.

Re:Kidnapping. (1)

wiggles (30088) | about 4 months ago | (#47407909)

This.

Plus, ever since Snowden, the US is actively putting pressure on anyone in power in Russia - any Russians in positions of power with so much as a parking ticket in the US is on an extradition list.

Re:Kidnapping. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406809)

Not exactly new, or even news. The (US) Marines' Hymn opens with the lines:

    From the halls of Montezuma
    To the shores of Tripoli...

Referring, IIRC, in the case of the shores of Tripoli, to where the Barbary Pirates took refuge while raiding shipping in the Mediterranean.

The US Marine Corp went in to Tripoli to root out the pirates. That was in 1812.

Re:Kidnapping. (1)

MRe_nl (306212) | about 4 months ago | (#47407105)

The US Mercenary Corps (8 Marines + 500 mercenaries) went in to Derna to effect regime change. That was in 1805.

Re:Kidnapping. (2)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 4 months ago | (#47407129)

Not exactly new, or even news. The (US) Marines' Hymn opens with the lines:

From the halls of Montezuma To the shores of Tripoli...

Referring, IIRC, in the case of the shores of Tripoli, to where the Barbary Pirates took refuge while raiding shipping in the Mediterranean.

The US Marine Corp went in to Tripoli to root out the pirates. That was in 1812.

The Marine Corps (it has an "s" in it-it isn't a business) isn't exactly known for arresting people. And in 1812 they were nothing more than naval infantry, which is why they went to the Barbary Coast. They were protecting American- and other states'- shipping. You know, kind of like what the US, France, Great Britain, and even Russia are doing right now off the Somali coast. The assertion you are trying to make is a very tenuous one.

Re:Kidnapping. (2)

TWX (665546) | about 4 months ago | (#47406871)

When I had heard that the Russians were calling this kidnapping, I was doubtful -- but now, not so sure. We really do exact our justice anywhere we want to, don't we?

What happened to extradition treaties and such? When did it become "stuff them in a van and drive!"?

i expect that the United States already had notified Maldives and gotten approval for extradition, long before he was arrested. After all, they indicted him in 2011, so they had plenty of time to determine his whereabouts and travel patterns. They might have anticipated that he would go through Maldives, so they arranged a hearing with their government to seek his extradition on his arrival on their soil. When he landed they intercepted him, arrested him, and the US government took custody.

Had this been, "stuff him in a van and drive," I doubt that it would have even been reported, or that it would have been reported so quickly, or that they'd have said something while he's only as far as Guam as opposed to back to the mainland US.

Re:Kidnapping. (3)

Rei (128717) | about 4 months ago | (#47407341)

TFA says he was arrested in Guam (a US territory). The "kidnapped in the Maldives" thing seems to be coming from the Russian media, which isn't exactly the most trustworthy source [rsf.org] on the planet (but at least it's a lot better than North Korea! ;) )

Russia (148th) might have been lower in the index had it not been for the stubbornness and resistance shown by its civil society. But the authorities keep on intensifying the crackdown begun when Vladimir Putin returned to the Kremlin in 2012 and are exporting their model throughout the former Soviet Union. From Ukraine (127th, unchanged) and Azerbaijan (160th, -3) to Central Asia, Russia’s repressive legislation and communications surveillance methods are happily copied. Moscow also uses UN bodies and regional alliances such as the Shanghai Cooperation Organization in its efforts to undermine international standards on freedom of information.

Criticism of the regime is common since the major demonstrations of 2011 and 2012 but media selfcensorship is far from disappearing. The federal TV stations continue to be controlled and, in response to the “return of politics in Russia,” the authorities have chose repression. Ever since Vladimir Putin returned to the Kremlin in May 2012, more and more draconian laws have been adopted. Activists, news media and bloggers have all been targeted. Defamation has been criminalized again, websites are being blacklisted and the range of activities that can be construed as “high treason” is now much broader. “Traditional values” are used to justify new restrictions on freedom of information, including the criminalization of “homosexual propaganda” and “insulting the feelings of believers.”

Not like the US is a bed of roses - its #46 standing puts it below countries like Botswana and Papua New Guinea, only one place above Haiti. But compared to Russia....

Re:Kidnapping. (1)

gstoddart (321705) | about 4 months ago | (#47407809)

What happened to extradition treaties and such?

In theory, they're in effect.

In practice, your government simply ignores them, or strong arms the country in question.

America has ceased to be about the rule of law, just about what they want, and what they're willing to do. The laws, treaties, and demands of other countries is simply deemed irrelevant.

On an international scale, the US is more or less a rogue state which does as it pleases. And that is truly alarming, because the global message is "we don't give a fuck about you, we're Americans".

Re:Kidnapping. (1)

Stan92057 (737634) | about 4 months ago | (#47408099)

The Russians first thoughts were that the USA was bombing them and it turned out to be a meteorite and you would like us to believe Willie Nellie what the Russia's say ??

Re:Kidnapping. (1)

jratcliffe (208809) | about 4 months ago | (#47408557)

1. The US and Russia don't have an extradition treaty. Russia, in fact, doesn't extradite their citizens, period. So, that option is moot.
2. If the Maldives decided to hand him over to the US, that's the Maldives' call. They can deport people to wherever they please. Again, no violation of treaty, since the Maldives and Russia (and the Maldives and the US) don't have an extradition treaty.
3. If he was grabbed without the consent of the Maldivian (?) government, then that would constitute kidnapping there (presumably, I'm not an expert on the law of the Maldives).

Imperial Police (4, Insightful)

mbone (558574) | about 4 months ago | (#47406729)

What in the hell are the US police doing arresting anyone in a foreign country? Is the Maldives part of the empire now?

And, yes, the Russians are totally correct in calling this kidnapping. Look for some poor American tourist or businessman to be nabbed in a tit-for-tat.

Re:Imperial Police (4, Funny)

BigSlowTarget (325940) | about 4 months ago | (#47406739)

Well they don't want to go arrest people in Mexico. It's dangerous down there and besides the Maldives have great beaches.

Re:Imperial Police (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406955)

This.
If the guy was "arrested" in the US there would be no problem.
But they're going around acting like the global police and arresting people in random countries.

Re:Imperial Police (0)

blue trane (110704) | about 4 months ago | (#47407269)

What did the Russians call it when Putin poisoned diplomats he didn't like?

Re:Imperial Police (1)

hugetoon (766694) | about 4 months ago | (#47407533)

More to come I'm afraid...

Re:Imperial Police (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407585)

They do not talk about such things. It is... unhealthy.

Re:Imperial Police (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407719)

More surgical than drone strikes.

Re:Imperial Police (2)

physicsphairy (720718) | about 4 months ago | (#47407695)

Respecting territorial sovereignty is for when other countries can do something about it. A small island nation of a few hundred thousand people need not apply.

Still, it seems a bit excessive to do an extradition raid for someone who is apparently accused of hacking into zoo and deli websites. His relation to the Russian MP is probably what has earned him the special attention, part of Obama's plan to punish Russia. The message is clear, "Invade its allies and America will spoil your vacation."

What do you suppose the probability is that after some further negotiations the MP's son and Snowden trade places?

Re:Imperial Police (1)

quantaman (517394) | about 4 months ago | (#47408223)

I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate but I'm assuming that the US has an extradition treaty with Maldives.

The US has a fairly responsible justice system when it comes to this. If a person from Russia/Nigeria/a country with a dubious court system is stealing credit card info in the US/Canada/EU I think it's absolutely appropriate for one of the latter countries to seek that individual's arrest when that person enters a jurisdiction with an extradition treaty.

So for me the US having the Maldives' police arrest and extradite this guy would be fine.

The iffy part is the US using it's own law enforcement. I can understand the US wanting to run the show so nothing goes wrong, but it definitely speaks to a general disrespect to the sovereignty of the country in question.

Obama desperate to get Snowden (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406733)

As more and more Snowden leaks are coming to surface, Obama is getting desperate. He grounded presidential planes to get Snowden before and he's not beyond kidnapping people to exchange them for ransom (Snowden).

If Obama doesn't release the kid, I hope Russia will start "arresting" US citizens in the same matter.

Re:Obama desperate to get Snowden (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about 4 months ago | (#47407087)

I hope Russia will start "arresting" US citizens in the same matter

Well, don't go stealing Russian credit card numbers.

Re:Obama desperate to get Snowden (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407513)

I'm sure the Russians can make up charges as well as the Americans.

Re:Obama desperate to get Snowden (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407383)

"He grounded presidential planes to get Snowden before"

This is not a true portrayal of the situation. I actually listened to the audio between the pilot of the plane in question and the ATC in Portugal I think it was. The pilot said he wanted to land because his fuel gauge wasn't reading accurately. Now, this excuse is sometimes used when they just want to make an unscheduled landing for many reasons, even including the pilot needing to use the bathroom in a plane without one on board. The core fact though is that the pilot whatever is reasons, he requested the landing, not anyone on the ground.

Arrested overseas? (1, Funny)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about 4 months ago | (#47406741)

I understand that he did something wrong, but begin arrested overseas by the U.S. Secret Service? The U.S.A. is acting like the mafia these days, no country is off-limits and frontiers don't exist.

Next up: the U.S. Secret Service arrests E.T. on his home planet for an unpaid long-distance call.

Re:Arrested overseas? (2)

Herschel Cohen (568) | about 4 months ago | (#47406799)

>> [...] U.S. Secret Service arrests E.T. on his home planet for an unpaid long-distance call.

Pipe dream.

We lack the budget to get there, otherwise we would. Be realistic, please.

Re:Arrested overseas? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406907)

Wonder what happens when one day it goes pear shaped and some of the American 'agents' are shot \ killed \ captured ?

Peter Graves, not $cientology-boy (1)

Thud457 (234763) | about 4 months ago | (#47407227)

The Secretary will disavow any knowledge of their actions.

See, extraordinary rendition is COOL, just like of teevee!
And the IMF are always the GOOD guys, so it's OK.

Secret Service job description (1)

fnj (64210) | about 4 months ago | (#47406779)

The US Secret Service is chartered with two utterly unrelated duties:
1) Investigation of financial crimes such as counterfeiting and fraud.
2) Protection of the US protected class of untouchable leaders, as well as visiting foreign dignitaries.

I don't see violation of the rights of third party nationals in foreign lands anywhere in their charter. Surely there are normal cooperative channels to bring the case to the attention of the law enforcement agencies of the foreign lands and also the third party governments.

Violation of the sovereignty of the US by attacking it or its citizens does not seem to be a part of this case.

Re:Secret Service job description (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47408185)

Notice that no one else in the comments pointed that out, or modded you up for that matter. I find that more interesting than the story honestly. People in power will break their own laws when convenient. That is obvious. But why has no one else here or on other news sites noticed that the SS is inappropriately involved? Are so many supposedly intelligent people so ignorant yet confident enough to talk about the subject anyway? Or do they lack the critical thought to see the discrepancy? I thought this site was full of software developers and the like. They should be able to post something a little higher brow than what yahoo news has on offer.

Re:Secret Service job description (3, Insightful)

jratcliffe (208809) | about 4 months ago | (#47408533)

The US Secret Service is chartered with two utterly unrelated duties:
1) Investigation of financial crimes such as counterfeiting and fraud.
2) Protection of the US protected class of untouchable leaders, as well as visiting foreign dignitaries.

I don't see violation of the rights of third party nationals in foreign lands anywhere in their charter. Surely there are normal cooperative channels to bring the case to the attention of the law enforcement agencies of the foreign lands and also the third party governments.

Violation of the sovereignty of the US by attacking it or its citizens does not seem to be a part of this case.

1. This falls clearly under #1, investigation of financial crimes.
2. He was indicted in 2011. If he were, say, a UK citizen (for example), the US would have put in an extradition request, and the UK would have (following a hearing, assuming there was credible evidence) extradited him. Same if the alleged crime had taken place in the UK, and he were a US citizen in the US.
3. Russia doesn't extradite their citizens, period, and, even if they did, there's no extradition treaty between the US and Russia. Therefore, no, there aren't any "normal cooperative channels" involved.
4. If the Maldives government (and I have to assume he was arrested there, otherwise he'd be a complete idiot, knowing that he had been indicted in the US, to visit Guam) consented to his arrest and transfer to the US, that's entirely kosher. The Maldives doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US (they don't have one with anyone, as far as I know, which might have been a reason that Mr. Seleznev decided to vacation there), but that doesn't mean that they're not allowed to extradite people, just that they're not obliged to.

So which is it going to be? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406783)

This story pits dueling Slashdot hot-button knee-jerk outrage topics head-to-head: 1) Evil US oligarchy (I had to throw that one in as it is the new "hot" word to use), in a show if Imperialism kidnaps Russian citizen from foreign country, or 2) criminal is able to avoid arrest for five years due to his ties to government (oligarchical) power that allows Russia to stonewall their end of a bi-lateral agreement.

Which will it be? Evil Imperialism or special treatment for those in power? Where will the outrage be? Early signs suggest Imperialism, probably due to the spin the story has been given.

Re:So which is it going to be? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406927)

'stonewall their end of a bi-lateral agreement' , so that would be like all the treaties the US makes knowing it is never going to honour them due to them never being ratifed?

Re:So which is it going to be? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407035)

Thank you for your valuable contribution, but what does that have to do with the topic under consideration?

Re:So which is it going to be? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407839)

The parent is complaining about Russia engaging in behavior America also does but I forgot your American Jeebus told you your always the good guys.

51? (1)

AndyKron (937105) | about 4 months ago | (#47406805)

The USA has 51 states? How did that get past me?

Re:51? (1)

thieh (3654731) | about 4 months ago | (#47407061)

Still 50. Guam and other places are like the Virgin Islands where they don't get to become incorporated. Maldives just become one of those unincorporated places.

Next law (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47406815)

So after the law about "web services must store data in Russia", next step will be a law "Russian MP must store children in Russia" ?

just the usual shenannigans,. (0)

nimbius (983462) | about 4 months ago | (#47406961)

The Justice Department declined to say where Seleznev was arrested.

So, just randomly stuffed into a van by the secret service or what? for those not in the united states, the Secret Service is our government law enforcement division that handles major financial crimes. Guam is a US Territory. it cant vote in congress or senate but its residents are considered US Citizens.

The indictment, which was unsealed today

so this guy was indicted but never knew about it? or we filed an indictment and just didnt tell anyone at all? Sometimes we do this because the statute of limitations is about to run out, but when is it appropriate should we decide to indict a foreign politicans son? how would diplomatic immunity work? had russia waived he right to it? its just another example of how american law is enforced at discretion and arbitrarily.

the guy allegedly only profited 1.2 million dollars for his scam and for regular stiffs thats quite a bit. However, what the hell do we hope to accomplish arresting him? the financial collapse of 2008 surely claimed more than a trillion dollars in fraud as well, but we never once considered arresting a banker. Leveraging this as part of our commitment to sticking our dick in Ukrane is absurd as well, but probably something we'll shoot for anyhow considering our policymakers never got the memo about the end of the cold war, the dismal failure in iraq and afghanistan, and the decline of the United States as a global superpower in general.

Re: just the usual shenannigans,. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407211)

Russian, Russia, America, American, Iraqi etc... are all capitalised. You can type capital letters by using the shift key on your keyboard.

Hmmmmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407039)

I can see a swap agreement coming soon. The son of a Russian official for Snowden.

Learn to play (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407057)

Nobody is hacking, noob. You just suck! So STFU!

(proceeds with 100 more perfect headshots)

Hmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407063)

Please do control better your own public servants. Such actions undermine US external diplomacy.

Certainly I don't speak for my government, but I find it difficult to support the US from now on, in case some other nation decides to kidnap US citizens (obviously I'm against such actions). I cannot help imagining someone prepared a trap and you fell for it...

BTW, some perfectly legal things in the US -- I believe you're aware -- constitute crimes in other countries.

That's dumb (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#47407263)

What's preventing Russia retaliation by "kidnapping" US diplomat/politician children in foreign countries on fraudulent charges?

I don't like US foreign policy where we get to what we want in foreign countries but then expect them to obey our rule when they are in our country. The more we put this kind of stunt, it either reinforce our "US empire" image or lose respect/credibility in the international communities. We should have gone through proper channel.

Smiley (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 4 months ago | (#47407265)

I'm pretty sure there's more to the story than we're getting out of either Russia or the US. And that goes double for what we're getting out of the Russian media (RT) and the US media. As sympathetic as I am to the Anonymous folks, their cries of "kidnapping" based only on what's coming out of Russia are a little premature. Does anyone here doubt that a Russian MP's son would be involved in a large-scale criminal enterprise stealing US credit card info? Is that really so improbable? I don't have a need for immediate information or immediate reaction on these things. We'll see what we see. Until then, I don't believe a damn thing in any of the reports. Both countries have very large, powerful and dishonest intelligence services who are expert at this crap. They had more than half a century of Cold War practice after all. And I've learned to tread lightly when it comes to RT or the US media.

Prisoner exchange? (1)

biodata (1981610) | about 4 months ago | (#47407663)

It would be a shame if your son comes to harm in some foreign jail, perhaps we can come to some arrangement about Owd Sneedon?

RBN? (2)

Redmancometh (2676319) | about 4 months ago | (#47407795)

I wonder if this is the same guy who was supposed to have been leading the Russian Business Network. There were/are a lot of rumors that his father was someone well-connected inside of the Russian government. It would explain how they've operated with impunity how long they have.

What is hilarious is that (2)

azav (469988) | about 4 months ago | (#47407815)

this was also submitted to the firehose as "US Kidnaps Son of Russian MP", where the post alleges that the US extradited him to Guam under false pretenses.

Wonder which spin is the correct one?

Good Morning, Edward (1)

davesays (922765) | about 4 months ago | (#47408115)

I guess we will be seeing Snowden back in the US as soon as his current asylum offer expires...

Gangster tactics (1)

boorack (1345877) | about 4 months ago | (#47408291)

My guess is that US will try to exchange this guy for Edward Snowden. Typical for gangster states as United States of A.
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