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Edward Snowden Is Not Alone: US Gov't Seeks Another Leaker

timothy posted about 2 months ago | from the well-maybe-he's-just-that-good dept.

Government 204

bobbied (2522392) writes Apparently Edward Snowden is not alone. CNN is reporting that recent leaked documents published by The Intercept (a website that has been publishing Snowden's leaked documents) could not have been leaked by Snowden because they didn't exist prior to his fleeing the USA and he couldn't possibly have accessed them. Authorities are said to be looking for a new leaker.

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What the Apologists Have to Say (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610411)

It is interesting to see how the apologists spin a story like this:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43690_In_Which_the_Ultimate_Alpha_Gets_His_Scoop_Stolen

Dudebro for life!

What else ? (5, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 2 months ago | (#47610499)

They will call the whistle blowers "TRAITORS" and they will come up with all the usual justifications - that they need to fight "terrorism", or whatever it is ...

America is turning into an extra-large-size concentration camp and still there are people wanting it to happen !

Re:What else ? (4, Interesting)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 2 months ago | (#47610551)

Heh. "Second Leaker" is a little less damaging to the NSA than "Persistent, undetected back door access".

It's a form of disinformation as misdirection, related to "plausible deniability" [wikipedia.org] and "limited hangout" [wikipedia.org] .

Re:What else ? (2)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | about 2 months ago | (#47610789)

Heh. "Second Leaker" is a little less damaging to the NSA than "Persistent, undetected back door access".

It's a form of disinformation as misdirection, related to "plausible deniability" [wikipedia.org] and "limited hangout" [wikipedia.org] .

Are you sure it's not a modified limited hangout?

Re:What else ? (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 2 months ago | (#47610895)

Are you sure it's not a modified limited hangout?

No, I'm not sure. In fact, I'm not sure how that would be different from what I speculated! :-)

Re:What else ? (4, Interesting)

plover (150551) | about 2 months ago | (#47610835)

It could also be used as a convenient excuse to prosecute any undesirable person as a potential "Second Leaker".

Re:What else ? (1)

AHuxley (892839) | about 2 months ago | (#47610717)

It seems like a rewarm of the old Main Core 1980's vision of "ontains personal and financial data of millions of U.S. citizens believed to be threats to national security." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
"As of 2008 there were reportedly eight million Americans listed in the database as possible threats"
The fun part of the new list is "“no recognized terrorist group affiliation”" count. Wonder how you make that side of the colorful chart?

Re: What else ? (1)

slick7 (1703596) | about 2 months ago | (#47610915)

I hope it's more like Stalag 13 than like Stalag 17.

Re: What else ? (1)

flargleblarg (685368) | about 2 months ago | (#47611413)

I hope it's more like Stalag 13 than like Stalag 17.

That issue was great.
https://archive.org/stream/sta... [archive.org]

Operation Showerhead (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610449)

They just need an Operation Showerhead.

Snowden and Assange... (4, Insightful)

MindPrison (864299) | about 2 months ago | (#47610461)

...they are the FACES we know.

Those you and I never see - are MANY more, I'm guessing thousands. It's a cat and mouse game, spy vs spy. Someone somewhere leaks something, and someone else gets assigned to find out what leaked, who leaked it and how do we close the leak and clean up after it.

Re:Snowden and Assange... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610603)

One being a traitorist and the other a raperist.

Re:Snowden and Assange... (4, Interesting)

Dutch Gun (899105) | about 2 months ago | (#47611059)

I briefly read the headline as: Snowden is Not Alone. US Seeks Another Leaker. As in: From the US Citizens: You're not alone, Snowden! We're with you! And we're looking for other brave souls to come forward and keep us informed about what the NSA is really doing! Then I reread the headline correctly, and realized I far preferred my earlier interpretation.

I'm not quite as bullish on Asange. When he revealed the war-related documents he did without sanitizing them, he put the lives of many Iraqi and Afgani citizens who worked with our forces at risk, and didn't appear to give a shit if they lived or died. If they worked with the evil American empire, they apparently deserved whatever fate they get at the hands of folks who have a history of doing really awful things to their fellow human beings. That alone makes me pretty uncomfortable, regardless of whatever positive things he's done or established.

Snowden, on the other hand, is a patriot of the highest order, in my opinion. He made the ultimate conscientious decision after seeing an unconscionable overreach of government authority, throwing absolutely everything away in an effort to bring this to light. If you hear him explain his decision, you get a sense that he doesn't have an ax to grind, nor is he some sort of glory-seeker, but was simply motivated to do the right thing for the right reasons. He got nowhere in a sincere effort to work through legitimate channels before ultimately resorting to leaks. The intransigence of the government in admitting any wrongdoing is, I feel, evidence enough that his internal efforts could never have been fruitful.

There are a few things he released that I actually wish he hadn't. For instance, I think the details on technologies and methods used for targeted surveillance, for instance, should have remained secret. If you think about it, that's *precisely* what the NSA should be doing: precision strikes, rather than carpet bombing, so to speak. I'm not opposed to their mission of finding legitimate threats to US citizens and interests, but don't put the entire damned country under mass surveillance to do so. It defeats the entire purpose if we have to turn into a police state to remain secure. But overall, he's done a pretty good job of releasing only relevant documents that highlight abuses, since he likely has information that, if released, would actually harm our national security or legitimately put people at risk.

Ultimately, I feel the country is in better shape thanks to Snowden. What we learned needed to be known, and thanks to him and the price he paid (and is paying), we can start trying to address the problem. I wish he would get pardoned, but I doubt that will happen.

Re:Snowden and Assange... (5, Informative)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 2 months ago | (#47611651)

When he revealed the war-related documents he did without sanitizing them, he put the lives of many Iraqi and Afgani citizens who worked with our forces at risk,

[Citation Needed]
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2010/1015/Wikileaks-US-says-limited-damage-from-leak-of-Afghan-war-logs [csmonitor.com]

No U.S. intelligence sources or practices were compromised by the posting of secret Afghan war logs by the WikiLeaks website, the Pentagon has concluded, but the military thinks the leaks could still cause significant damage to U.S. security interests.

The assessment, outlined in a letter [written by Defense Secretary Robert Gates] obtained Friday by The Associated Press, suggests that some of the Obama administration's worst fears about the July disclosure of almost 77,000 secret U.S. war reports have so far failed to materialize.

The White House led with the notion that Wikileaks War Logs might put people at risk, but that talking point has long since been abandoned.

If you keep in mind that the Government (via the NY Times) already knew what was going to be published,
it's hard to imagine that they didn't mitigate the potential fallout and that's why there's no harm that can be shown.

Not to mention that the Feds have been doing everything to keep Manning's lawyers from seeing the damage assessments from the leaks.

It was me. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610473)

Guys, it was me. I'm sorry, but I just can't keep a secret, which is why I revealed it, and why I had to tell you that Mrs. Jenkins across the street? The UPS man was parked there 45 minutes this morning, and he smiled coming out.

Re: It was me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610585)

But I ain't one to gossip so you didn't hear that from me!

Re:It was me. (4, Funny)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 2 months ago | (#47610951)

The UPS man was parked there 45 minutes this morning, and he smiled coming out.

I'm guessing he smiled more going in.

Re:It was me. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611151)

No, it was me. I am Spartacus.

Re: It was me. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611547)

No, I AM Spartacus.

Re:It was me. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611593)

You broke the cardinal rule by using her real name... sheesh, it's not "Mrs. Jenkins" it's "Deep Throat" - get with the program! :D

tin-foil tempest in a teapot (3, Insightful)

turkeydance (1266624) | about 2 months ago | (#47610481)

maybe, just maybe, Snowden is the FACE of the leaks.

Re:tin-foil tempest in a teapot (5, Funny)

dnavid (2842431) | about 2 months ago | (#47610749)

maybe, just maybe, Snowden is the FACE of the leaks.

Which begs the question: who are the BA, Hannibal, and Murdock of the leaks.

Re:tin-foil tempest in a teapot (0, Offtopic)

Wizy (38347) | about 2 months ago | (#47610973)

No it doesnt. http://begthequestion.info/ [begthequestion.info]

Re:tin-foil tempest in a teapot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611237)

A very interesting site. I have, however, never heard the phrase "...begs the question..." in any usage other than what dnavid used.

Re:tin-foil tempest in a teapot (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611309)

No it doesnt. http://begthequestion.info/ [begthequestion.info]

Linguistic prescriptivists are always on the wrong side of history. This is to be expected, since history isn't written by losers.

Imitation is still the sincerest form of flattery (5, Interesting)

rmdingler (1955220) | about 2 months ago | (#47610537)

Despite the NSA's back to business reaction post-Snowden,

and the lack of meaningful change from the initial outrage,

Maybe, just fucking Maybe, Snowden's legacy will be his inspiration to leagues of others who are driven to reveal outrages instead of ignoring them like good little soldiers.

Not if we don't stand up for them. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610745)

If the citizenry continues to allow the government to punish the leakers, and further to completely get away with doing everything that was leaked, we can expect this trend to be short.

We, by which I mean you, need to get up and publicly protest and push charges against the government officials who betrayed us.

Justice will not happen by itself.

Re:Not if we don't stand up for them. (3, Funny)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | about 2 months ago | (#47610903)

We, by which I mean you,

Funny, I thought you were going to say "... by which I mean I ."

Re:Not if we don't stand up for them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611175)

We, by which I mean you, need to get up and publicly protest and push charges against the government officials who betrayed us.

While you sit in the basement playing armchair general?

Maybe Snowden is not the only conscious in the NSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610557)

The NSA is a very big operation, with lots of subcontractors. Not all of them are idiots/cowards/sociopaths.

Maybe Snowden is not the only conscious in the NSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610873)

Not to mention the attacks of conscious forced upon many of them when their (potentially now former) friends, and neighbors start calling them out for spying.

More than one (1)

mbone (558574) | about 2 months ago | (#47610559)

One is believable. Lots would be believable. Two, and only two, not so much.

Re:More than one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610647)

If there are lots, it will start with a trickle. Two is very believable for a while. Then there will be three and ...

Re:More than one (5, Interesting)

R3d M3rcury (871886) | about 2 months ago | (#47610861)

If one person does it, they'll think he's a traitor.
If two people do it, they'll think they're both faggots.
If three people do it--imagine! Three people walking in, leaking information, and walking out? They'll think it's a terrorist organization.
And can you imagine 50 people walkin' in, leakin' information, and walkin' out?! They'll think it's a terrorist movement!

(Apologies to Arlo Guthrie...)

Re:More than one (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611143)

Now friends, somewhere in Utah, enshrined in a little server, is a study in ones and zeroes of this Slashdot post. And the only reason I'm writing this post now is 'cause you may know somebody in a similar situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if you're in a situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's log into the message board wherever you are, just log in and post "General, you can read anything you want at Anonymous' Restaurant."

And log out.

If one person does it, they'll think he's a traitor.
If two people do it, they'll think they're both faggots.
If three people do it--imagine! Three people walking in, leaking information, and walking out? They'll think it's a terrorist organization.
And can you imagine 50 people walkin' in, leakin' information, and walkin' out?! They'll think it's a terrorist movement!

And that's what it is, the Anonymous' Restaurant Anti-Censorship Whistleblowin' Movement, and all you gotta to do join is post this message the next time this article appears on the Slashdot dupe post.

With feeling.

So we'll wait for it to come around as a dupe on Slashdot here, and you can post it when it does.

Here it comes.

You can read anything you want at Anonymous' Restaurant
You can read anything you want at Anonymous' Restaurant
Exfiltrate with a simple hack,
Pop the return address from your program's stack,
And you can read anything you want at Anonymous' Restaurant.

That was horrible. If you want to limit the powers of the surveillance state and actually be able to exercise your civil liberties the way your scraggly-haired hippie parents did, you gotta post in ALL CAPS! I've been typing this post for 27 minutes, Mr. Anonymous Coward, I can type for another 27 minutes. I'm not proud. Or tired.

So we'll wait for the American voters to elect candidates who are willing to force the domestic intelligence community back into compliance with constitutional law, or at least USSID-18, by means of a 21st century Church Commission, and this time with four-part harmony and feeling.

*pause*

(Okay, so we might be waiting for a bit longer than 27 minutes...)

Re:More than one (1)

mt1955 (698912) | about 2 months ago | (#47611247)

Funny +1

We used to sing that song for real till Nixon stopped the draft -- just in time for me -- only 5 weeks after I had to register

Re:More than one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611503)

Dear asshole,

When my Internet is slow tonight because of what you just made me add to CouchPotato, I'll be thinking of you.

(Update: Maybe not slow for long. Really, no HD for this one?)

Re:More than one (4, Insightful)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 2 months ago | (#47611147)

The UK had two Russian spies in their government: Donald Maclean and Guy Burgess . . . and Kim Philby.

Ok, their three Russian spies were: Donald Maclean, Guy Burgess and Kim Philby . . . and Anthony Blunt.

Start again. Among their Russian spies were: Donald Maclean, Guy Burges, Kim Philby, Anthony Blunt and John Cairncross . . . and . . .

Oh, bugger.

The unmasking took years to complete . . . um . . . if it was completed . . .

However there is a big difference here . . . those spies did it for Russia. Snowden did for America.

Re:More than one (4, Interesting)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 2 months ago | (#47611633)

I'd prefer to rephrase that last sentence a bit.

... those spies did it for a foreign, enemy power. Snowden did it for his own country.

Yeah, keep focusing on the messengers (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610561)

Meanwhile important stories NOT appearing on Slashdot...

Cash, Weapons and Surveillance: the U.S. is a Key Party to Every Israeli Attack [firstlook.org]

The U.S. government has long lavished overwhelming aid on Israel, providing cash, weapons and surveillance technology that play a crucial role in Israel’s attacks on its neighbors. But top secret documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden shed substantial new light on how the U.S. and its partners directly enable Israel’s military assaults – such as the one on Gaza.

Over the last decade, the NSA has significantly increased the surveillance assistance it provides to its Israeli counterpart, the Israeli SIGINT National Unit (ISNU; also known as Unit 8200), including data used to monitor and target Palestinians. In many cases, the NSA and ISNU work cooperatively with the British and Canadian spy agencies, the GCHQ and CSEC.

and

Barack Obama’s Secret Terrorist-Tracking System, by the Numbers [firstlook.org]

Nearly half of the people on the U.S. government’s widely shared database of terrorist suspects are not connected to any known terrorist group, according to classified government documents obtained by The Intercept.

Of the 680,000 people caught up in the government’s Terrorist Screening Database—a watchlist of “known or suspected terrorists” that is shared with local law enforcement agencies, private contractors, and foreign governments—more than 40 percent are described by the government as having “no recognized terrorist group affiliation.” That category—280,000 people—dwarfs the number of watchlisted people suspected of ties to al Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah combined.

Re:Yeah, keep focusing on the messengers (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610923)

And all that and more in your name and with your taxes...

Re:Yeah, keep focusing on the messengers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611073)

Thats almost as many people as employed by the new fatherland protectate, Dept of Fatherland Security.

Back in May they already said Snowden didn't have. (4, Insightful)

ron_ivi (607351) | about 2 months ago | (#47610569)

Back in May they already said Snowden didn't have access to all that data: https://www.techdirt.com/artic... [techdirt.com]

As recently as May, shortly after he retired as NSA director, Gen. Keith Alexander denied that Snowden could have passed FISA content to journalists.

"He didn't get this data," Alexander told a New Yorker reporter. "They didn't touch --"

"The operational data?" the reporter asked.

"They didn't touch the FISA data," Alexander replied. He added, "That database, he didn't have access to."

Re:Back in May they already said Snowden didn't ha (5, Interesting)

Em Adespoton (792954) | about 2 months ago | (#47610651)

Believable, but considering that the CIA said that nobody had access to the senate's subnet, and then it turned out that common IT workers had access AND USED IT -- and Snowden was in a similar position -- and I'd take anything said by NSA leadership with a grain of salt. Often at that level, "he didn't have access to" really means "the policies stated he shouldn't access that." It doesn't mean that it wasn't possible, just that it was outside accepted policies and procedures, and that at some point, someone SHOULD have airgapped it and added in the appropriate ACLs such that it wouldn't be possible.

But I'd believe more that Snowden was the one who escaped with the data, but there are actually a number of people who were involved in obtaining it in the first place. And now that Snowden has opened things up but prevented himself from providing other leaks, the rest have found an alternate route that didn't involve a courier in the same manner.

The thing is, if they can leak like this, that means it's just as easy for other actors to be leaking to people who might want the information but who won't tell about it. This shows that access control at the NSA is still thoroughly broken, no matter who the leak was.

Re:Back in May they already said Snowden didn't ha (4, Funny)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 months ago | (#47610719)

Hey, we told the IT guy to change the permissions on that folder to keep himself out. He must have been some kind of super-hacker to get past us...

Re:Back in May they already said Snowden didn't ha (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 2 months ago | (#47611485)

Hey, we told the IT guy to change the permissions on that folder to keep himself out. He must have been some kind of super-hacker to get past us...

He wrote the bloody backup system...

Re: Back in May they already said Snowden didn't h (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610925)

What a bunch of dull thinkers, f them all, lowest bidder and this is what you get.

Re:Back in May they already said Snowden didn't ha (2)

ron_ivi (607351) | about 2 months ago | (#47610943)

Often at that level, "he didn't have access to" really means "the policies stated he shouldn't access that." It doesn't mean that it wasn't possible, just that it was outside accepted policies and procedures

Or I guess it could also mean "the guy who made the comments was never permitted to know the details of how much access he had".

Hedging a bet (4, Interesting)

s.petry (762400) | about 2 months ago | (#47611429)

Since the US media has become useless in terms of actual journalism, I don't think they care. TV based media simply ignores leaks, so the population that relies on TV media for news is just as clueless as if the leak never happened. Not a new tactic mind you, just lots easier with TV Propaganda^wNews today. They are probably betting that people will just forget. Happens all the time with Government and has for decades.

There are a few good radio stations that will talk about these issues, but none are nationally syndicated. Anything that receives lots of airtime gets bought out by Fox^wClearchannel and changed to a "Sports" station. Before you say it, Alex Jones sold out long ago and is now just a more extreme version of Rush Limbaugh (sometimes okay for scaring people awake to problems, but not often).

Newspapers? WTF is a Newspaper? Well, more seriously the few that are left are all controlled like Radio and TV.

I would be willing to bet that there are more leakers than just Snowden. If I was going to leak I may blame him since that might save me from a likely life term in "pound me up the ass prison". As long as Snowden is in Moscow he probably does not mind, it keeps him popular and relevant which I'm sure leads to a bit of income.

Having spent 10 years in the DOD I can tell you that security is possible (Not to brag, well maybe a little bit, I built the first NISPOM compliant secure networks off of a military installation). At at the time I left (8 years ago) they were trying to skimp and even offshore work. One of many reasons for me leaving mind you. Systems can be secured and audited, but it's expensive and everyone in the management and executive chain wants bigger bonus checks. Politicians want bigger kick backs, so the money train works against security as often as possible.

This shows that access control at the NSA is still thoroughly broken, no matter who the leak was.

I would have to agree, because you don't change a decade of shit security in a year. You would need to re-architect a decade worth of systems, and I'd bet a box of donuts that they just tried slapping bandaids on things.

Re:Back in May they already said Snowden didn't ha (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611525)

I'd take anything said by NSA leadership with a grain of salt.

"Mister President, I don't want to judge the matter before all the facts are in, but it's beginning to look like General Ripper exceeded his authority."

NAS and CLOUD Storage Fiasco = Never Secure (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611167)

Thanks to budget cuts NAS and CLOUD storage is on the rise. The weakest link is cheap commodity gunk.
No matter what piddly operating system is used, these devices are wide open if you are smart enough.
If they have backups, then again risk multiplied.

Of course it could be well paid 'advisors' and 'consultants' hoping to get a follow up contract.

HAAAHAHAHAHAAAHHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHAHAAHAHAA (0, Redundant)

jjoelc (1589361) | about 2 months ago | (#47610581)

HAHAHA hahhahahaahah hahhaahahhah ahaahahhaha haha hahha hahaahah hahah haha haaaaaaaaaaaahhh hahahaah hahaa hahhahahaaaa hahhhahaahah hahaahah hahaahah hahahaaaah HAHAH HAAAAh haaa hahahaahahhahaha hahahaa HHAAAAAAAaaaaaaaah hahahaa hah haha haaaaahahahaha hahaha hahhaha haahahhaha hahaha hhahahhaaaahahahhahahahaaaaaaaa!

(yes, I logged in specifically to post that!) (edited because the filter would not allow the full glory of the transcript of my laughter...)

The FSB keeps working... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610613)

Well, you didn't think the FSB would suddenly close up shop, didn't you?

Re:The FSB keeps working... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610667)

FSB doesn't need to expose America's dirty secrets when good people like Snowden exists.

Re:The FSB keeps working... (3, Insightful)

AHuxley (892839) | about 2 months ago | (#47610831)

Why would the FSB do this? They want their deep penetration agents to sail past any token US security and rise to the top of the US mil/political policy setting sectors.
For that the FSB would want the US security private, underfunded and digital only.
The more leaks, the more active the FBI, CIA and UK hunters become. The more leaks suspected from within the US gov and mil, the more tracking of all US gov staff.
Voice print tracking, web use, review of all life stories of all cleared US bureaucrats would not be something any skilled nation wants to induce the US gov to fund.
Any outside gov would want the US hunting foreigners in distant lands to the point of been distracted from basic interviews and paperwork of gov applicants over generations.
A push to induce the US gov to seek languages, life experiences, slang, accents would be the perfect cover. A flood of new staff would be great. Looking at all staff again is not so good.
Whistleblowers appear every generation to expose torture, wars, deaths, domestic surveillance.

Another leaker (1)

manu0601 (2221348) | about 2 months ago | (#47610615)

There is another leaker, except if they failed to revoke all Snowden's accesses.

But I could not seriously imagine such ridiculous outcome.

Re:Another leaker (4, Interesting)

Will.Woodhull (1038600) | about 2 months ago | (#47611545)

Of course there are other leakers.

What is remarkable about Snowden is not that he was able to obtain all this "secret" information, but that he went public with it. Rather than selling it to someone like maybe one of those rich guys who are paying ISIS's way. It is some of the other "leakers" who are unquestionably doing that.

The NSA, etc, needs to be shut down. If only because it is demonstrably true that persons who make a career in climbing bureaucracies lack the kind of intelligence necessary to managing the needed level of security.

There may or may not be other good reasons for getting the government out of this kind of spying and database management. But just as it would be stupid to hire Cordon Bleu chefs to run an explosives manufacturing plant, it is stupid to put even the very best bureaucrats in charge of this kind of data collection and database management. They might be very good at what they have experience in doing, but this kind of stuff is going to blow up in everyone's face. Explosive technologies cannot be handled with cookbook methods.

The only sane course is to get USA government out of this activity. It is not something a democratically oriented bureaucracy can do. We need to look to other methods.

The more you tighten your grip... (2)

cl3v3r (3775089) | about 2 months ago | (#47610621)

...the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki... [wikia.com]

"mole"? (3, Insightful)

ysth (1368415) | about 2 months ago | (#47610657)

CNN seems to be very confused; in what way is this additional whistleblower a "mole"?

Re:"mole"? (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 months ago | (#47610709)

He's releasing documents to the public. That makes him an agent of a hostile power, no?

Re:"mole"? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610817)

The public is about as hostile a power as you could wish for.

Re:"mole"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610839)

he's a member of that very public being who are being oppressed by the government who is purporting itself to be "of the people"

he's as much of a "mole" as the politicians are "not liars", no?

you're an idiot.

Re:"mole"? (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 months ago | (#47611029)

I suppose I should have made the sarcasm more clear... The assorted three letter agencies certainly operate as though the public were a hostile power; but actually saying so would be tasteless, so you see this deceptive little dance back and forth between using the terms designed for agents of some other nation state; but then having only the vaguest and least convincing accounts of who they could possibly be working for; because their being actors in the interests of an American ideal that isn't in line with the TLAs simply isn't on the table.

Re:"mole"? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611371)

quipping sarcasm in the face of fascism is none the less idiotic.

buy guns.

Re:"mole"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610821)

you seem to be very confused. CNN sells sensationalism to advertisers, and misinformation distribution to political action committees.

"news" is dead. buy guns.

Re:"mole"? (4, Insightful)

AHuxley (892839) | about 2 months ago | (#47610891)

A sleeper agent would feed the docs back to another country and do everything to keep their cover and advance via decades of great US gov work.
No deep cover agent would be allowed to just become a "whistleblower" as many cleared docs are created for and tracked per staff member.
Under examination each copy can be tracked back, why risk all for one domestic database press event?
ie a mole would send unique one of a kind material to their handler and thats it.
If the source gets documents published its a whistleblower.

Funny job description (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610699)

Alice: "And what do you do for a living?"

Bob: "Why, I'm a Leaker Seeker!"

Change your bloody root password (1)

mysidia (191772) | about 2 months ago | (#47610703)

because they didn't exist prior to his fleeing the USA and he couldn't possibly have accessed them.

That's what someone thins....

You think the NSA would know a few things about security.

Rule 1. Change all passwords when a privileged user leaves the organization, especially to accounts with access to confidential files.

Rule 2. Close all the covert backdoors they opened up before leaving.

Re:Change your bloody root password (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610853)

If your organization is still using passwords, then you've already lost.

I use a secure RSA hardware token (Yubikey Neo) to authenticate my OpenSSH sessions (via GnuPG's ssh-agent capability which can use the token out-of-the-box, without OpenSC). Previously I used a regular Yubikey using HOTP, but it's a hassle to setup and maintain a centralized authentication server, and is a single point of failure and attack, anyhow.

Most government agencies use secure hardware tokens (using the PIV NIST standard for public-private key signing offloading), but the problem is that they're proprietary and a huge pain in the butt to setup and administer. So there are huge gaps and integration is sloppy.

Yubikey is partnering with Google on an HTML5, browser-integrated public-private key authentication protocol that will work with non-proprietary hardware-based solutions (i.e. doesn't require specialized drivers on Windows or fiddling with OpenSC on Unix or OS X). I can't wait until that comes out.

People keep talking about 2-factor blah blah blah. But the fact of the matter is that anything that requires entering a piece of text, whether a password, a PIN sent to your cellphone, or whatever, is horrible broken. Even if it's 2-, 3-, or 1000-factor. The frontends and backends of such systems are security nightmares because the secret isn't actually a secret. With hardware-based public-private keys systems, there's one secret, and nobody has access to it (not even the user). Even with TOTP or HOTP systems the secret has to be stored on both the token and the server. And like with the RSA attack, having all those secrets in one location is stupid.

Re:Change your bloody root password (1)

mysidia (191772) | about 2 months ago | (#47610979)

Even with TOTP or HOTP systems the secret has to be stored on both the token and the server. And like with the RSA attack, having all those secrets in one location is stupid.

TOTP is probably good enough for most. It has a few things going for it that a password doesn't: (1) HUMANS don't generate or control what the secret is, so it's actually a strong secret.
(2) With a TOTP system such as Google authenticator, the NORM is you will have a different secret for each site. This is different from a human generated password where users commonly re-use the same password, OR use a common theme to generate multiple similar or barely different passwords around a common theme or pattern.

Re:Change your bloody root password (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611055)

The NSA's internal network is not connected to the internet, so he wouldn't be able to access it unless he could get inside a facility that had access to it, which might be a little tough for him.

Also, the NSA almost universally uses PKI certificates for authentication. There are a few internal services that still use passwords, but they're being pressured to change.

Government Boondoggle??? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610711)

Edward Snowden, a RON PAUL supporter and tea party extremist, is an enemy of this country and President. Audit all of the tea party nuts!!!!!

need more special access programs and black world (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610773)

Leaks. Russ Tice the first whistleblower indicated there are computer systems and classified levels of black world programs containing high tech tools above the low tech stuff Snowden and these other snoops have leaked. And Glenn Greenwald confirmed to me and my crew personally that Snowden did not get any documents on these higher up systems. Which include their satellites and long range interferometers. But we know from other sources like patents and victims accounts and a few other whisleblowers what is going on: http://www.OregonStateHospital.net/d/story.html#nsabrainlink [oregonstatehospital.net] .

They can take high res pics of your anus from space even when you're in a building people. And decode and analyze brainwaves dumping memories of your entire life patented and implemented since 1976. Then when they want to kill you covertly, they will just give you calcium efflux aka flood your body with interferometric signals which is diagnosed as a natural death or freak accident depending on how it went down.

Dr. Robert Duncan is the CIA/DOD/US DOJ/NASA employee confirming that.

Re: need more special access programs and black wo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610945)

Now that you have shared, well, now you will ... RIP

How many others? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610801)

So at least two people then that for idealistic reasons or so leak documents to the public.

Then begs the question how many actual moles from foreign intelligence there are.

Re:How many others? (2)

AHuxley (892839) | about 2 months ago | (#47611019)

'Then begs the question how many actual moles from foreign intelligence there are."
Lots of safe cleared staff working for other govs over decades.
It depends on the quality of the person found by other nations. Some share the same faith, cult, country and will always put that first over generations.
Some people get into cash flow or lifestyle issues and need help form other nations.
Some just get passed over or fail and then stay in for decades helping other nations.
Historically the best times to get foreign intelligence staff in as gov staff is during times of rushed need - wars. Languages, computer skills, accents, slang, dialects are in desperate need- few questions asked
Other friendly nations have a lot of skilled staff to share too. Security is lax, rushed. People invited in with the right education or smarts stay in for decades and are cleared on past work done or as contractors.
The only way to protect against that is to not hire any dual nationals and interview in person the extended family members per an applicants life story.
West Germany was great at rebuilding a life story and stopped a few attempts by East Germany by looking over paperwork and a life story of applicants. It takes time, effort, money, real people. East Germany then went for West German private sector and hoped a few 20 somethings would make top cleared staff in 20-30 years with real security clearances eared and fully trusted.
Can they be found in the US? No the teams looking are already compromised by politics and private project funding or other nations. Kind of hard to shut out the private sector and all the other helper nations. Kind of easy to get staff in applying for all the new US security jobs out of university.

Re:How many others? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611125)

Then begs the question how many actual moles from foreign intelligence there are.

7 of them.

WITCH HUNT! (1)

naringas (733106) | about 2 months ago | (#47610811)

Let the witch hunts begin!

Re:WITCH HUNT! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611643)

We all know it's Obama. Or Benghazi, fuck that dude too.

How can there not be? (5, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about 2 months ago | (#47610859)

All of these agencies are shown to be violating the law, lying to us (and Congress) about it, and generally ignoring basic rule of law.

So, either you have to conclude that everybody who works for these agencies has bought into the Kool-Aid of fascism ... of some of them are going to realize that the surveillance state has gone way beyond what it should and is undermining everything.

This level government secrecy and abuse is a cancer, and it needs to be removed.

Quite frankly, leaking is pretty much moral obligation of anybody who has realized the extent to which these agencies have become toxic.

Re:How can there not be? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47610959)

People have never been told the truth. Its what you hopefully realize.

http://www.OregonStateHospital.net/d/story.html#nsabrainlink [oregonstatehospital.net] ...

Read Dr. Robert Duncan's book The Matrix Deciphered the decrypted truth of the DOD Matrix exists.. You will learn how you have been targeted and controlled all your life from a CIA/DOD/US DOJ/NASA employee who worked on cybernetic warfare and mind invasive technology currently deployed world wide.

Re:How can there not be? (3, Insightful)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 2 months ago | (#47611363)

So, either you have to conclude that everybody who works for these agencies has bought into the Kool-Aid of fascism

Did you miss how this went last time? These employees are "just following orders." Or perhaps we should change that to "just paying the mortgage" this time around. Also, 'cause terrists.

Snowden is a leaker, but unless you suppose a fifth column inside the TLA's, then they're all sticking their necks really far out to just do that. The entire abuse reporting process is a sham, so the only option is to go all the way. Many people would rather "pay the mortgage" than to be prosecuted for treason. The sham of a reporting process is a well-known factor and really good for keeping such a tight self-reinforcing environment.

backdoor? (2, Interesting)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 months ago | (#47610875)

Is it possible that Snowden still knows a way to get into the machines he used to manage?

A long time ago, I left a company where I had been the sole admin for several years. I had been training up a PFY who eventually replaced me. His last assignment was to find my back door and close it. From my new job, I'd occasionally log into my old machines, have a look around, and send him an email to watch for this thing or fix that thing. He eventually figured out that the usenet news service account had a password.

I know I know, but it was a different time.

Point is, maybe there's new leaks because Snowden still has a back door into his old machines?

facts not in evidence (1)

Hey_Jude_Jesus (3442653) | about 2 months ago | (#47610879)

> they didn't exist prior to his fleeing the USA and he couldn't possibly have accessed them.
Why couldn't of he of created a back door to later access the system?

Get a grip (2)

slick7 (1703596) | about 2 months ago | (#47610929)

Some where I remember a saying, "The harder you grip your hand, the faster the sand runs out."

Fool me once ... (1)

PPH (736903) | about 2 months ago | (#47610947)

... shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

Be smart and STFU (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611011)

There isn't a need to be a martyr and out yourself like Snowden did. That was likely Snowden's dumbest move.

huh (4, Insightful)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 2 months ago | (#47611063)

You mean to say, you hired dedicated patriots, with a fundamental desire to server the public, put them through intensive training, made them take a solemn oath to uphold the constitution, then employed them and asked them to violate those very principles, and that oath... and you mean to tell me a few of them may have turned against you?

The lunacy of our federal government never ceases to astound me.

huh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611145)

But, I don't want to be servered.

Yea!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611077)

Glad to see some more people grow a pair

Mole? (4, Interesting)

Sir Holo (531007) | about 2 months ago | (#47611115)

The CNN talking-head calls the leaker a "mole." WRONG.

A Federal Whistle-blower is not a "mole," but simply a whistle-blower.

This is similar to the concept of "jury nullification," whereby a jury can find an accused guilty of breaking a law, but can also recommend ZERO punishment, as jury nullification is a mechanism for citizens to nullify unjust laws.

It was used a lot in the civil-rights era, but has been buried by Attys. and judges alike, leading to a lack of awareness by potential jurors.

PS – Want to get out of jury duty? Get informed, and assert your faith in Jury Nullification in open court during voire dire.

They hate being held to account, and prefer an ignorant "jury of peers."

Re:Mole? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611251)

A whistleblower would tell us what was going on. Snowden actually leaked classified documents. He's a criminal.

Re:Mole? (3, Insightful)

Sabriel (134364) | about 2 months ago | (#47611473)

Dear AC, your argument is analogous to suggesting a person should be jailed for jaywalking if they run across the street to stop a kidnapping.

My only regret is... (2)

mt1955 (698912) | about 2 months ago | (#47611195)

... That I have but one life to give for my country.

As for me, Edward Snowden is a man cut from the same cloth as Nathan Hale

Am I the only one around here ... (1)

Kittenman (971447) | about 2 months ago | (#47611261)

There's two issues here;

1: Various US government departments may be doing something dodgy
2: Someone is leaking classified data to the wider population

Now, I've no opinion on the first one - I'm not a US citizen (though I class myself as a US sympathizer). If true, it's a thing for the citizens and the justice department. I hope the issue gets resolved, right prevails etc

But the second one is a security breach: the guy (whatever his intentions) has broken his contract with the company, and also the law. What documents get released to the wider public is not a matter for the individual - it's a matter for the owners of the data, according to the law.

And as someone who's hired staff in the past, I'd be less than impressed if someone admitted that he'd leaked data to the public because he thought it was the right thing to do. That's my call, not his. Or more likely my boss's. Or his boss's.

I took a leak ON the NSA. Does that count?? (1)

zenlessyank (748553) | about 2 months ago | (#47611265)

I believe this is what we call planting the crowd,... so they can now remove any rights we thought we DID have just to classify everyone an enemy of the state so no rights ever have to be given back to us. If everyone is a possible suspect then it is just us vs. them now. Enjoy your new totalitarian regime. Mod away.........

The good news (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611321)

The good news is that the NSA is apparently too inept to even watch their own employees.

Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611393)

Maybe this one will stay anonymous so it will actually be about the information leaked, instead of using the leaks as a greedy attempt to propel himself to fame.

They are NOT whistleblowers or moles (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 months ago | (#47611569)

They are NOT whistleblowers or moles... they are our nations TRUEST, in every sense of the word, Freedom Fighters.

Lets repeat that again, Freedom Fighters.

I'm not a religious man, but I'll bloody well say this. God bless you, for you are the few protecting us from the tyrants within.

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